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Team Microbe's Living Soil Laboratory
- Thread starter Team Microbe
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Gh, in case you missed it--here are snapshots from Savant's research paper I linked to earlier:
And from the summary page:
As you can see, there is more to "siliconization" than just the temperature..."soil" and "soil solution" pH are huge players, as is mineral composition of the soil (primary reason calcined clay is incorporated in my grow medium). Yep, many things going on--some of which even the best minds do not completely understand.
And from the summary page:
As you can see, there is more to "siliconization" than just the temperature..."soil" and "soil solution" pH are huge players, as is mineral composition of the soil (primary reason calcined clay is incorporated in my grow medium). Yep, many things going on--some of which even the best minds do not completely understand.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.Every module I found on Amorphous silicate is that while soluble, it only has a max saturation point of .12g/l of water (source). To stress this, that is 1/50 tsp of amorphous (i.e. freshwater) powdered DE per liter of water, max.
Increasing solubility of amorphous silica involves temperatures above 130C, and suspension in a basic 11-12 pH solution(source). Granted, once the silica is dissolved and dehydrated, the resulting powder is continually dissolvable. The result there is what we all refer to as 'silica gel'.
That all said, weighing cost/benefits, I don't see fossil shell flour coming close enough to replace Potassium Silicate in horticulture. I do strongly feel that DE is a fantastic soil additive and should be a part of everyone's pest management regimen, alongside potassium silicate however. Organics or otherwise, potassium silicate is good, and hard to replace.
GH, when you come around and realize that "chemistry soluble" and "soil soluble" are two different concepts, then please re-examine your position: amorphous silica is not soluble in soil. There is just too much science that says otherwise.
Remember that Sunflower study that compared amorphous Si (Rice Husk Ash) and soluble Si (Potassium Silicate)? Those guys in the white lab coats concluded Rice Husk Ash was superior (when incorporating in the grow medium, 100 gm Si supplied as rice husk ash was better than 140 gm Si supplied as KSiO3, I wonder how far out of the ballpark the numbers would have been if Fossil Shell Flour was included...maybe 50% less Fossil Shell Flour...like 50 gm?). Now remember, amorphous silica content in Rice Husk Ash is around 60% and about 90% for Fossil Shell Flour (which I calculate to be 50% more than Rice Husk Ash)...consequently many people smarter than both of us have concluded Fossil Shell Flour is an excellent source for organic amorphous Si. I am just parroting their conclusions and voicing my results.
Remember that Sunflower study that compared amorphous Si (Rice Husk Ash) and soluble Si (Potassium Silicate)? Those guys in the white lab coats concluded Rice Husk Ash was superior (when incorporating in the grow medium, 100 gm Si supplied as rice husk ash was better than 140 gm Si supplied as KSiO3, I wonder how far out of the ballpark the numbers would have been if Fossil Shell Flour was included...maybe 50% less Fossil Shell Flour...like 50 gm?). Now remember, amorphous silica content in Rice Husk Ash is around 60% and about 90% for Fossil Shell Flour (which I calculate to be 50% more than Rice Husk Ash)...consequently many people smarter than both of us have concluded Fossil Shell Flour is an excellent source for organic amorphous Si. I am just parroting their conclusions and voicing my results.
Foliar Friday inspired a few meme's this week...
This is the foliar spray I use every Friday:
1 tbsp Neem Oil (cold pressed)
5 ml Agsil16H
1 tsp Essential Oil Blend
1/4 tsp Aloe Vera 200x powder
Found a nice spot to session at today while site-searching for this year's outdoor grows - so many waterfalls in this area! A great place to appreciate, not cultivate. Too much traffic goes through this area I've found. Oh well, was worth a shot... onto the next spot.
Silver Lotus #2 beginning to fill in evenly after being tied down. The cytokinins from the coconut water really do help those lowers reach up towards the canopy, I wouldn't grow without it. Unless I was popping corn seed sprout teas, I know that contains cytokinins as well
Jack Herer x N.Y.C.D.
These topped clones were spread open in attempts to get some light penetration down into those lowers
After straining out the malted barley I set it aside for the worm bin - they love that shit!
Mannnn, it's one of the best spots to burn that I've found in a few years. My reason for saying this is because the sanctuary is named after a man that was so passionate about nature and all things living....
On his memorial rock, the last sentence reads "His ashes nourish these trees his hand planted."
I always hope that Chris is living vicariously through me while I hike through his preserve. The vibe I get is so strong, I literally feel like he's there with me. Powerful stuff.
On his memorial rock, the last sentence reads "His ashes nourish these trees his hand planted."
I always hope that Chris is living vicariously through me while I hike through his preserve. The vibe I get is so strong, I literally feel like he's there with me. Powerful stuff.
We're smokin some Easy Street I found in the back of my cupboard from last harvest! It cured nicely on me, I had no idea it was back there so when I found it you can imagine the look on my face
:yay:
:yay:
Thanks Bozo!
Counter productive indeed. That would be like taking purified water and mixing it with tap water for no reason
Hey T M and everyone, just two quick questions for you guys.
1- I have got lots of hemp seeds to my disposition, can I use them instead of the malted barley for enzymes or is barley way better ?
2- I also have 1kg of tulsi powder tea that I don't drink, can I find a use for it in the garden ? I thought maybe adding a bit in my IPM.
Thanks
1- I have got lots of hemp seeds to my disposition, can I use them instead of the malted barley for enzymes or is barley way better ?
2- I also have 1kg of tulsi powder tea that I don't drink, can I find a use for it in the garden ? I thought maybe adding a bit in my IPM.
Thanks
Thanks Bozo!
Counter productive indeed. That would be like taking purified water and mixing it with tap water for no reason
Excellent! Thanks microbe. Thats what i thought so a good alternative to the potassium in the armor si would be to just keep using molasses, thsts what it seems anyway.
Polygon
Member
1. Hemp seeds will work like most legumes and grass/grain seed from what I understand. I remember reading that cannabis seed has a differing enzyme profile, but in no way is that a bad thing. I think most stick to barley, corn and alfalfa because they have research to back them and unless I'm mistaken, there isn't much if any to show the benefits or enzymatic profile of cannabis sprouted seed tea. I find barley to be better due to the fact that it sprouts quicker, has a softer seed-shell for easier blending and the seeds germinate at the same time. Sometimes with alfalfa I have issues sprouting them evenly, so I go with barley personally, considering my experience sprouting cannabis seeds, it seems like a pain in the ass compared to starting some barley or alfalfa. But I'm probably just being lazy
2. Tulsi can be applied as an insect repellant, as to the amount of powder per gallon for foliar - that's above my studies in the arena of organics. Interesting to note the levels of rosmarinic acid, linalool, B-caryophyllene in there, would serve some of the same IPM purposes as rosemary and thyme, but less potent and containing less terpenes, ketones and terpenoids that you're looking for.
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On a different note, I want to express my happiness with no-till and living soil. This is probably my third or fourth time saying this but - My plants are incredibly healthy with lush and velvet soft leaves. I have never spent so little time mixing and calculating nutrient regimens and as much time just observing my garden. Peeking under the mulch and cover crop to see little springtails scurry and the occasional beneficial soil mite trotting along.
It's funny that with all the 'agricultural advances' nutrient companies and growers think they have discovered by reading the books of tools who can't back up their word. I tried hydro, aero, soil-less, bagged soil and everything in between and this style of growing feels the best and it shows.
Thanks again to everyone who puts in work on this thread - I've spent more time studying soil biology and horticultural research papers in the last few months than ever and feel like as an organic chem graduate, I have a very good grasp on the information out there.
The English Cut
Well-known member
Thanks Bozo!
Counter productive indeed. That would be like taking purified water and mixing it with tap water for no reason
Okay, I'm not wanting to reopen any silica debate (heaven forbid lol) but I'm confused - apart from GH now being part of the Scotts/Miracle Gro empire and not a company for organic gardeners to patronise, is there any reason why using AgSil is ok but Armor Si isn't? All I'm saying is they're both Potassium Silicate as far as I can see. Or no?
Please no drama, it's an innocent question, things got a little too techy (and tetchy) for me a few pages back and I may have missed something vital to my understanding of the issue. Peace all, TEC.
Simply put, Potassium Silicate/AgSil is a "synthetic substance" and NOT allowed for use in organic crop production as plant or soil amendment CFR 205.601(j).
Long answer--Potassium Silicate is a "synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production as an insecticide", CFR 205.601(e)(2) and "for disease control", CFR 205.601(i)(1). But Potassium Silicate is not one of the synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production as plant or soil amendments. CFR 205.601(j).
Below is the current text of CFR 205.601(j)--not one that may have existed 15 years ago.
§205.601 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production.
In accordance with restrictions specified in this section, the following synthetic substances may be used in organic crop production: Provided, That, use of such substances do not contribute to contamination of crops, soil, or water. Substances allowed by this section, except disinfectants and sanitizers in paragraph (a) and those substances in paragraphs (c), (j), (k), and (l) of this section, may only be used when the provisions set forth in §205.206(a) through (d) prove insufficient to prevent or control the target pest.
....(j) As plant or soil amendments.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(4) Lignin sulfonate—chelating agent, dust suppressant.
(5) Magnesium sulfate—allowed with a documented soil deficiency.
(6) Micronutrients—not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.
(i) Soluble boron products.
(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.
(7) Liquid fish products—can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.
(8) Vitamins, B1, C, and E.
(9) Sulfurous acid (CAS # 7782-99-2) for on-farm generation of substance utilizing 99% purity elemental sulfur per paragraph (j)(2) of this section."
As you can see, Potassium Silicate is absent from the above list.
That said, I am NOT 100% ORGANIC and use both organic amorphous Si (Fossil Shell Flour) and synthetic aqueous Si derived from BOTH Potassium Silicate and Monosilicic acid.
And them's the facts...not to mention the cost for a pound of SiO2 is just over $6/lb when sourced from AgSil16h and about $0.67 when sourced from Fossil Shell Flour.
Proof:
50lb bag of AgSil16h contains 52.8% SiO2 and available around $160 (plus shipping).
50lbs X 52.8% = 26.4 lbs SiO2
$160 (price) ÷ 26.4 (lbs SiO2) = $6.06/lb
50lb bag of Fossil Shell Flour contains 89% SiO2 and available under $30 (plus shipping).
50lbs X 89% = 44.5 lbs SiO2
$30 (price) ÷ 44.5 (lbs SiO2) = $0.67/lb
Why pay more for a synthetic source of SiO2? Seems silly to me.
Do earthworms have any issue with Fossil Shell Flower (diatoms) cutting up their innards?
When DE is moist, it loses it's "cutting" abilities...that I know first hand and have read research that concluded same. All field studies/experiments/trials I have read make no mention of any "earth worm holocaust" after field application of DE.
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