Team Microbe's Living Soil Laboratory

[w4tch]

Thanks bro! Those are truly kind words!


1) Acadian Kelp - I source mine here

2) Compost is a tricky one sometimes. It's important to ask how it was made and what they used in it, if they sound like they know what they're talking about then that's a good sign. I like to pick it up and play with it in my hand, smell it, and see if there's any ammonia smell to it (this means it's gone anaerobic). If not, and there's that rich organic reek to it then it's good. The darker the shade the better as well, that's why they call rich humus "black gold". I will use this compost in my outdoor gardens but for my indoor grow I keep it controlled, so I'll buy quality bagged compost like Oly Mtn Fish Compost or Worm Power EWC.

3) Yes you can def scrape by with water and tea, and that wouldn't be scraping at all either. This recipe is water-only, but boosting biology only helps the entire system truck along that much smoother. I probably wouldn't use all of the plant supplements on my outdoor patches as often as I would an indoor grow, but I would still use all of them at least once during the grow season. Probably 5x each during the season, depending on how deep my pockets are at the time. The coconut water will deliver those cytokines to the plant that cause it to really "bush out" and the lowers will reach for the top of the plant pretty much. This is the main reason I use it, because I like to avoid the classic Christmas Tree visual and tie tops down horizontally to the ground. The plant will be penetrated by light better as well, and I feel like a higher potential is reachable in doing so.

What's your water source?

Plant in the ground, and try to find the water table if possible when digging holes if water levels are typically low. I've also found that heavily mulching holes and down-setting plants helps conserve water well, as well as adding at least 20-30% organic matter to the soil mix. It's like adding organic water crystals, because compost and humus in itself retains 80% more water than a soilless mix. This is why I mix 20% in with my outdoor mixes, and then mulch with straw, then chicken poop on top of that.

4) I have actually, there's a whole thread about it too and I'll link you to that as well because they talk about getting it straight from Rice Land (the country's supplier pretty much).

Cheapest online site I've found

Rice hull thread

Thank you so much for all the help yet again! Definitely going to place a huge buildasoil order (ill grab the shit for the soil, teas, and some coco water).

I should top dress with chicken shit, not 2" ewc? where can i get that? I'm sorry!

Going to call some farms today about compost. Can I sub compost with the stuff you use indoors for outdoors if i cant find anything good at reasonable price?

I was planning on using a spring that people always fill 5 gallon drinking containters at. I was planning on scooping truck beds full and hooking up my nice little 4x4 atv with a trunk on it (that locks) that could probably store 15 gals with a basic supply pack. Of course I'd park a little ways away and walk in.

I'll try to find the water tables and thanks for the kelp/rice links.

You're a great mentor.

Thanks again!

 

[Team Microbe]

Oh you can top dress with either or, I would do EWC personally. If you can find a good organic compost on a farm I would use that all day for my outdoor gardens. Just bag it up in industrial trash bags, tie em off and haul em to your site. Booya.

NICE! That 15 gal ATV trunk will be awesome for hauling water. It would be an extra bonus if you didn't have to worry about hikers and could just go back and forth with water to fill up a reservoir without having to worry about compromising your spot. Actually you could probably do it either way because a hiker won't even know you're hauling water I bet. Let me know how that works out, I'm thinking of investing in one after this harvest for similar reasons. I'm gonna haul supplies with mine for the most part after I get some land I think.

No problem, anytime dude

 

[w4tch]

Oh you can top dress with either or, I would do EWC personally. If you can find a good organic compost on a farm I would use that all day for my outdoor gardens. Just bag it up in industrial trash bags, tie em off and haul em to your site. Booya.

NICE! That 15 gal ATV trunk will be awesome for hauling water. It would be an extra bonus if you didn't have to worry about hikers and could just go back and forth with water to fill up a reservoir without having to worry about compromising your spot. Actually you could probably do it either way because a hiker won't even know you're hauling water I bet. Let me know how that works out, I'm thinking of investing in one after this harvest for similar reasons. I'm gonna haul supplies with mine for the most part after I get some land I think.

No problem, anytime dude

The only thing that sucks with the ATV is the noise *sigh*. Definitely worth the money though. Especially one with 4wd. I wouldn't buy one brand new (although they hold their value quite well). You can get a reliable one for like 1-4k on craigslist as compared to 8-10k new. They just get beat to fuck anyway. I'm always fucking shit up on mine. But as for the trunk, 200-300 to conceal your water/supplies is so worth it.

 

[Team Microbe]

Yeah my buddy had a plot ripped last year because of his quad that's why I mentioned it. His neighbor spotted him driving it up the hill every now and again, and eventually took a hike up there to see what was good. He ripped the plot, and now my buddy can't plant there anymore. Def a negative aspect of riding, but if you're in the right area you can ramp around all you want I feel like. Use your best judgement brother, that trunk is a great thing to have in your tool bag that's for sure.

 

[w4tch]

Yeah my buddy had a plot ripped last year because of his quad that's why I mentioned it. His neighbor spotted him driving it up the hill every now and again, and eventually took a hike up there to see what was good. He ripped the plot, and now my buddy can't plant there anymore. Def a negative aspect of riding, but if you're in the right area you can ramp around all you want I feel like. Use your best judgement brother, that trunk is a great thing to have in your tool bag that's for sure.

I ride all the time so it shouldnt be anything too out of the ordinary . I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[Team Microbe]

Edit:

I'll be re-opening this thread; I regret making Team Microbe's Living Soil Lab Round 2 in the Organic Soil forum because I'm very avid in teaching others what I know, and (if possible) preventing them from making the same mistakes I once did. While there was some great conversation over there, I feel like this thread had more exposure to growers of all kinds rather than the guys/girls that were already on the same page as me. Also, this thread covers all the basics of my set up, as well as soil mixes/tea recipes/watering regimens... and I get a lot of questions regarding those things so I feel like it's best for everyone if I stick to 1 thread for every cycle I run from this day forward...

Some gsc that inspired my decision



SO - forgive me for re-directing my Grow Journal back to this thread one last time. This thread was too productive to be abandoned like it did, so thanks for following along folks

 

[Team Microbe]

Progress...

Progress...

I wanted to start the re-opening of this thread with what I've learned since the first living soil run, and what I've changed since then regarding recipes/container building/no-tilling in general/etc.



What I've learned thus far:


- Water retention increases as (no-till) cycles progress; the more cycles carried out in a single pot, the less water will be needed during the typically watering


- Recycling soil isn't as hard as it seems! (www.loganlabs.com)


- Even the most reputable sources can be wrong at times; thinking for yourself rather than relying on mentors is a healthy habit to develop


- Preparation is absolutely everything in gardening
(esp. in soil); I've learned to make plans at least 1-2 months before carrying them out


- Documentation comes in handy when you need to look back and see what you did differently, how to improve upon a certain method (cloning, seed starting, transplanting, harvesting/curing, etc) and/or what not to do/repeat again in the future. I've been getting extremely detailed in my grow journal entries (a notebook I usually keep within arm's reach) and it's paid off more than I thought it would


- Quality inputs = quality outputs
For example, conventional vermicomposting bedding is garbage (newspaper, food left overs, shredded cardboard, etc). I've learned that using a quality compost (mixed with 1/3 rice hulls for aeration), and amending it as you would your soil mix - yields the highest quality earthworm castings


- Always wear a mask when mixing soil
(peat moss/rice hull/perlite dust causes asthmatic symptoms when inhaled). It's not fun when you're stuck awake at night, wheezing for air... just because you thought it was too cold outside to build some soil


- Transplanting seedlings/cuttings into no-till containers ASAP after harvesting is important in order to re-establish mycorrhizae relationships within the root zone effectively and efficiently (as the previous plant's rhizosphere will fade over time)


- Less is always "more"


- Strain selection should be dependent on the intended use of the medicine come time to ingest (I've gotten into dry sifting lately and have noticed how poorly some strains sift compared to "hash strains")


- It's best not to over-due it with cover crops, this applies to the less is more theory. I like to sprinkle a circle around the future transplant and let each root mass find one another rather than planting too closely


- The significance of enzymes found in Seed Sprout Teas is enormous... it's like shifting from 3rd gear directly to 5th gear in your car


- The recipe one decides on for their soil is literally the foundation of the entire grow; balance is everything and getting this part right is so crucial in avoiding headaches down the line


- Too much of anything is bad; I went heavy on mulching with carbon materials (straw/compost/ewc) and when my soil test results came back it said I had a whopping 56% organic matter (the ideal % is between 25%-35%)


- You can save a ton of money by switching to gieco, and sourcing materials locally. I spent so much money shipping compost from across the country because I simply had no idea a local nursery carried the same stuff for $8 a bag (I was paying $30 to get it shipped to my door before). You can go on any retailers website and find out if they have carriers within driving distance of you.


- Being friendly with businesses and people can open some big doors


- The bigger the army (beneficial insects/microorganisms) you have, the less problems you'll run into as far as pests & diseases go


- When running new experiments, use 2 cuttings from the same mother in a side by side rather than subjecting the entire garden to them (which is only logical, but confidence gets the best of us sometimes)


- Every minute spent reading and learning is time well-spent


- The law of attraction applies in the grow community too; if you're a sour puss then you're going to attract other likeminded people... but if you're positive and go out of your way to help others, it'll come back full circle one way or another


- No matter how green your thumbs may be, there is always room for improvement

 

[Team Microbe]

What I've changed

What I've changed

What I've changed:

- The size of containers I use (I found the 7 & 10 gallon pots too small for my situation, so I'm building new 25 gallon pots this week in which I'll be no-tilling in for the next few years). Check this article out - it talks about the significance of container size

- I'll be laying down 2'' of lava rock in the bottom of my containers for now on to provide additional drainage since most container moisture concentrates in the bottom half of it


- The addition of bio char (pre-charged) since it increases soil fertility, provides a great habitat for microbes to harbor in, and is a highly stable form of carbon


- My IPM sprayer (every Foliar Friday). I went with a Chapin 1949 concrete sprayer. This thing is a beast, I'm really impressed with the quality of this model. I use it to water plants in smaller pots as well, it's really versatile I've found:

- The use of fish bone meal. I'm mixing the CC kit in this soil mix, and it's the exact same mix as I used before (which was once named "the complete nutrient kit" found at buildasoil.com) except it doesn't have the fish bone meal. Here's an interesting article concerning the use of high phosphate amendments like fish bone meal


- I've started growing aloe vera to use for not only in the form of a purée cloning/root drenches, but to battle the contact dermatitis I get after brushing up against plants in the garden. I know I'm not the only one here to experience this... and I highly recommend rubbing aloe gel on any rashes because it literally works within minutes. Just snap a small tip off of a branch and squeeze out the gel inside.

Aloe purée


- The addition of comfrey to use as mulch, in compost piles, and in tea (although I've heard this gets pretty stinky) since it's so rich in nutrients and a great dynamic accumulator. I haven't used it yet, but I'm about to transplant the Bocking 14 cuttings I got in the mail last week so that should be pretty interesting to grow out...

*I'll be sure to come back and edit this post as time goes on if I add or change anything

 

[The English Cut]

Great thread(s) TM. I've really enjoyed the level of documentation (thorough), the open mind and experimentation. I've been growing organically (weed & veg) for more than 10 years but this thread and others like it have really helped me to join up the dots, understand a lot more about why I do what I do (or have been doing instinctively), what not to do and refine my techniques. No-till all the way for me now. Thanks.

And by reviving this thread, you're dragging outdoor organic growers like me over here to check out the indoor scene, can't be a bad thing and although I haven't flowered anything indoors for over 8 years, I'm sorely tempted to get back in that game. Now I just need a massive solar array to make it sustainable...

 

[The English Cut]

anyone who knows anything can tell from your posts you're still in the learning process.

Funnily enough, that's what makes it so interesting and relevant to me. Aren't we all in the learning process? Know-it-alls are boring anyway.

Btw what happened to your soil thread llb? It was an interesting look into your own learning experience and I was enjoying it. Today it's gone though - ¿que pasa señorita?

 

[Team Microbe]

Great thread(s) TM. I've really enjoyed the level of documentation (thorough), the open mind and experimentation. I've been growing organically (weed & veg) for more than 10 years but this thread and others like it have really helped me to join up the dots, understand a lot more about why I do what I do (or have been doing instinctively), what not to do and refine my techniques. No-till all the way for me now. Thanks.

And by reviving this thread, you're dragging outdoor organic growers like me over here to check out the indoor scene, can't be a bad thing and although I haven't flowered anything indoors for over 8 years, I'm sorely tempted to get back in that game. Now I just need a massive solar array to make it sustainable...

Thanks!

I'm still learning obviously, but I love passing on info because I love when other people do it for me. So glad this is of benefit for ya brother, thanks for pullin up a chair

I'm tempted to try no-till outdoors as well, that would be the best environment for no-tilling I feel like. Indoors can compete, but the potential of that sun is just incomparable!

 

[exploziv]

So I tried to clean this thread a bit..
This will be a last warning to you both. Starting now you should ignore eachother, and only user report post function if there is a problem. If I see anymore beefs in the open forum, or PM's get reported, we will take the appropiate actions needed to clean the forum. In this case, it will probably be a ban, cause you have been warned before.
Any try of reopening this discussion in this thread or other thread will be considered trolling as well. Just don't post in eachothers threads anymore, as it's clear this can't work in a civil manner.
Thank you very much for understanding! Have a nice day!

 

[Croptober]

What's up TM, I'll be tagging along for this one as well.

 

[Team Microbe]

So I tried to clean this thread a bit..
This will be a last warning to you both. Starting now you should ignore eachother, and only user report post function if there is a problem. If I see anymore beefs in the open forum, or PM's get reported, we will take the appropiate actions needed to clean the forum. In this case, it will probably be a ban, cause you have been warned before.
Any try of reopening this discussion in this thread or other thread will be considered trolling as well. Just don't post in eachothers threads anymore, as it's clear this can't work in a civil manner.
Thank you very much for understanding! Have a nice day!

Thank you! I appreciate it the time taken out to clean up the unwanted negativity. This is a thread of positivity and learning

 

[ghostmade]

Sweet write up . hopefully we stay put.lol quick jab lol
Also dank ass gsc.did you grow them yourself?

 

[Team Microbe]

Sweet write up . hopefully we stay put.lol quick jab lol
Also dank ass gsc.did you grow them yourself?

Haha I deserved that one, I'll give ya that. Nah I didn't, a friend gifted me it. I messed with the saturation to bring out the colors in that pic because they were so beautiful... not really a big fan of cookies though to be honest. A lot of hype for a slightly above average strain IMO

 

[Granger2]

TM said:
-Water retention increases as (no-till) cycles progress; the more cycles carried out in a single pot, the less water will be needed during the typically watering

TM,
How is this related to using Rice hulls as opposed to rock based aeration like perlite and lava? Seems likely to me that the break down of rice hulls and their being eaten by worms would lead to less aeration material in the soil over time. That's why I'm not on the rice hull bandwagon like so many others. Rice hulls are probably OK for soils that will only be used for 2 cycles or something, but for no till, I'm not going to use them cuzza their break down. I guess time will tell. What do you think about that? Thanks. -granger

 

[Team Microbe]

TM said:
-Water retention increases as (no-till) cycles progress; the more cycles carried out in a single pot, the less water will be needed during the typically watering

TM,
How is this related to using Rice hulls as opposed to rock based aeration like perlite and lava? Seems likely to me that the break down of rice hulls and their being eaten by worms would lead to less aeration material in the soil over time. That's why I'm not on the rice hull bandwagon like so many others. Rice hulls are probably OK for soils that will only be used for 2 cycles or something, but for no till, I'm not going to use them cuzza their break down. I guess time will tell. What do you think about that? Thanks. -granger

Ya I ran 100% rice hulls for my (what was originally going to be) my first no-till pots - after 1 cycle they broke down to about half of what they originally were. The breakdown of the rice also contributed to the added moisture retention, I actually lost a few clones because the pots simply didn't dry out fast enough between waterings. After this happened, I realized that I needed to either till in additional pumice/lava rock or I'd be setting myself up for failure. So instead of tossing them in the garage, I decided to use them one last time before doing so, and put mothers in them to take cuttings from.

That's one of the main reasons why I'm building these new 25 gallon pots, and when I do (in a few days) I'm only going to add 15% rice hulls, and 85% lava rock. I'm adding a pound of red wigglers/african night crawlers and I know they like the rice so that's why I'm adding it pretty much. Do you think I should go even less than 15%?

 

[Heusinomics]

Wouldn't you want an additional 10-15% organic matter to hit your ideal ratio of 25-35%?

Rice and pumice seems limited in om for later breakdown?
Would you fig botanical and compost teas to b enough for feeding microbes as the plan goes into extended runs along w root mass breakdown?

 

[Kozmo]

1. Holy nugs! What a trim job
2. Next post. 347. HELPFUL
3. Thanks