TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Guest]

Let's review, shall we? lol

Let's review, shall we? lol

Here is 5 hours in TAE:



And 3 weeks in flower...as you can see from the tag this clone is only about 60 days old from cut on Aug 26th.



And you can see here on the right this is about 2 weeks ago.



And like I said, we still have another good 5-6 weeks on this Sativa...this is only like day 22 of flowering. I could drag the flowering cycle out with longer day times and higher N, but I wont need too.

I think you can see how zero veg is possible.

 

[Guest]

GroNut - This may make no difference whatsoever, but I noticed your filter is facing the wrong way. The angle should go in the direction of the water, possibly this is the cause of the delayed compensation? Just a thought...still trying...

Ignore that last PM about posting more pictures...you have enough.

My personal experience and advice for you on your (excellent) setup if you are still having issues after you rotate your filter.

First, I'd shorten the distance from the res to the intake on the pump and the return to the fogger line.

Second, if that didn't fix it I'd add two very small pin holes at the end of your fogger line facing down to allow all the trapped air and shit to blow out the end immediately upon triggering. This will allow the water to get all the way down to the end before backing up pressure rather than forcing out trapped air, which might be the lag you are experiencing.

Other than that I can't think of anything else at the moment, but after those three things you should see a marked improvement. I'd do one at a time however, just so you don't overkill.

There is always a need to fine tune these TAG Pods...you have to fuck with them just like a high performance racing engin...they can stall easily or flood.

But you can get them to purr like a kitten also. That is what you want. :wink:

 

[Guest]

Thanks for lookin out Pod, The mofo at the supply shop told me if the filter is pre pump, point the thing in the direction of flow but the opposite if the filter is after the pump under pressure. I'm fixin to flip it to see if can't see a difference anyhoo. I'll give an update soon.

If it was easy it would be no fun....

 

[Guest]

Exactly, and if you follow my career...everything has to happen to me at least 12 times.

I just think of the filter like it is coming out of the faucet outside, as they are used for yards. You couldn't screw it in the other-way as it would hit the wall, so it must go the other way. I've heard it doesn't really matter...but I think maybe air or something might be causing some problem...I donno..but worth a try fixing the direction I figure. My pump finally quieted down to a nice purr again. My filter was covered with a silt (residual LK I think). That is the problem I have with the Clay aspect of that product. Clay creates Slit which is so fine it will clog everything and it only takes a little to make several impenetrable layers. No silt for TAG...not a good ideal. Too bad too..but maybe Zone covers it with Max. We'll see...My plants look fantastic for the beginning of week 4, no K def no Ca def...this is unprecedented to date. They win my vote and I'm getting mad flowering already...I'm serious when I say, I've got a good 6 weeks left on the Rhinos and they are already to size and filling out. DM1 by far has proven itself to be THE TAG nutrient. Love this shit.

OK you all have got to see this shit!
I'm looking around at nozzles now and ran across a nice Netafim site with a video that has sold me! lol

Check this shit out...

http://www.netafim-usa-greenhouse.com/Greenhouse/p-propagation.php

GroNut, you can use an anti drip device on each nozzle to keep the pressure constant in the line inbetween injections. This video is awesome...they get this huge burst of dense fogging clouds in line a 1 second shot...really impressive... Check out the components on the system to better understand the injection methods. It would be awesome if you could run a strobe light and strobe the nutrient delivery as well...that would even accellerate the growth even more...we are talking like 50% faster at this point from soil...would that be possible?

I'm going to have to think on this one...but you have got to see that video...it is like root porn, but Aero Porn! lol

OH..and looking at their illustration I'm wrong about the direction of the filter...maybe I'm misunderstanding it as well. They show it like you have it on your system...why don't they just make this shit simple...christ! its a fuckin' filter for crying out loud...is it that hard to have an 'IN' and 'OUT' on the GDT. Sheeeeeessssss.. :smile:

Where you hiding JAT?

I want to know how your XL vs. Toro tables are doing? I have to comment that even though the XL foggers are a bit of a PITA — I get far superior root development with them than the Toros in my experience. There is something to be said for hitting closer to that 50µ point.

The plants have only been under the new almost all XL Skywalker pod and the roots this morning look like the Widow's. The are getting nice and thick and hairy, I'll shoot in a couple days.

Just curious what you are seeing?

GroNut, if you can get your rig working...those foggers you have will rock harder than either of these. Those are the best on the market outside of a $8 nozzle I've found. Did you score a good deal on those? I can't find the Tee and Nozzle tip for less than $2.50 a unit. What did you spend on yours?

 

[Guest]

Ok, since no one is posting sexy root porn...


The effect of XL foggers Notice the ball shape taking effect?



I'm very impressed with the DM1, holding nicely at 5.7 today after adding more P...there is a much higher need for P than originally assumed. I'm trying to think how best to supply without using phosphoric acid only.

But the girls for today...




The Cinnamons are now starting to grow vigorously...must finally be on her way. She is looking very stout. I've very proud daddy. This is today and last nights (24 hours later)

 

[Guest]

:GroNut, if you can get your rig working...those foggers you have will rock harder than either of these. Those are the best on the market outside of a $8 nozzle I've found. Did you score a good deal on those? I can't find the Tee and Nozzle tip for less than $2.50 a unit. What did you spend on yours?

What do ya mean IF.. hehe.. it runs but like a chevy... ka plunk, ka plunk, ka plunk.. I'll get it purrr like a Porsche here in a few days. I did some stuff last night; found one cracked fogger and another that was side shootin, maybe defective. I fixed those, snugged up all the others and actually put the pump on the timer @ 30sec/3min and let it go for a bit. It did better, bounce is way down now.. it only bounces maybe 3 times then settles. I can try a few more things but I'm pretty confident now that I know what's happening.

The pvc tee fittings and fogger kit seems really good quality. A 1/2" nut driver and you can pop em on and off really easily. I paid just about 2 buks per unit from a freind at a hydro shop. They have tons of gadgets and crap and they don't sell much of it. The guy thinks he should collect all this shit that he thinks will sell like hotcakes then it sits. I don't think I got much of a deal, just what they paid I'm pretty sure.

for some reason I can't view that fogger video but I'll try again. It's cool to get info like that to get an idea of how shit is meant to work and see it in action. The filter thing is funny, I kinda though it didn't make much difference from looking at it. The water has to pass through the screen either way and I would think if it was impotant they would for sure have a dumb arrow. The pump does, however I think you would find out pretty fast if you had that mixed up

My diesels are showing roots They took some time, some at 8 days some at 10. I may have had the moms pumped up on nuts (i like this spelling for nutes) a bit much. I've kept the cloner temps down a bit too as I'm fukin sick of pythium and don't want to give it any chance to show it's ugly head. Cloner has been at about 72 to 74 in the day, cooler at night. This may have added to the longer rooting times but I needed the time so it's perfect

 

[Guest]

That will delay rooting, IMHE. I keep my cloner right at around 78 for about 3 days...for the fast rooters..then let it drop to about 74 where it stays for those pesky ones. I got a Cinnamon twig to root! I took one of the flowers as the original shoots damped off and are now only about 1" long. It is actually rooting from what looks like a dead pine needle..but at least guarantees me a another mom.

Here is a comparison of FAG roots at 3 weeks verses my current TAG roots. I think you can definitely see why the droplet size is important after all.





You can see how the FA roots are long and stringy and need to form a 'root mat' at the floor of the pod for a NFT environment or DWC...whereas the TA roots only drop a few lines to the floor for taping NFT, instead they hang out in the 'aerosol' zone where they prefer to grow and stay. This is why we provide them with ample space to grow in 'aerospace' rather than a pipe. They need to hang free and in the aerosol where they can grow unhindered at a rate unmatched by any other method.

Here you can see that I have no real Tap roots on the floor at this time. I'm on my 4th week of flower now and they are still haning in space with a few having just one or two lines on the floor there is no root mat.

 

[guineapig]

i can't wait to see the pom-poms......the root puffer-fish!......for one i am a huge fan of root porn and i can only find it at one place.....True Aero Growing!

by the way do the XL foggers destroy beneficial bacteria when you introduce them into the resevoir? There are species of Nitrogen-Fixing Bacteria and Phosphorous-Fixing Bacteria that i would love to see sprayed all over those roots!

keep up the root porn......love to all TAG monks and laypeople alike....

kind regards, guineapig

 

[Guest]

NO, they love it...are you kidding? lol That is why the roots are so healthy...they love Oxygen and get shitloads with the XL aeration. Those Bacs are like supermegaultrasmall, you can fit like a billion on the head of a needle, they have no issue floating around and finding a home on the coolest place on Earth...My Roots! I just had to go there.

And just cause you like root porn, this ones just for you.



But no, the only thing that I have found that damage the subculture are Heat (number ono!) and UV (light) radiation. UV radiation, which can zip right through a thin plastic shell, kills AMbac on contact...so does light radiation (which is why you want it cool and dark). My roots do well because the panels are R4 insulation board...no UV penetration or light energy but my flash (which probably massacres millions...lol), they are just enjoying the TAE.

The droplets being the ideal size allows the roots to grow in all directions rather than down looking for water and nutrients. They'll just become huge balls of fur suckin' the air dry of nutrient rich goodness and converting it into massive buds! Yeah! This is my favorite part because last time I wasn't looking and they just flew by me...I didn't get to appreciate the grow or this new DM mix.

LOVE THIS FUCKIN' Product! LOVE it! lol I'm going to save you all a shit load of hassels and learning how really touchy a TAG can be and just tell you right now...hands down, you will not find a more stable ONE than this ONE. It Fuckin' Rocks!....Total Evangelist now! Haven't run Ionic to see if there is a difference, but so far I've had such excellent results compared to both BC and Botanicare's Power Series. Very nice product indeed. Go For the ONE!

 

[guineapig]

oops i forgot.......anywho did you read my post about the DIEHARD nutrient cocktail awhile back? This product has a phosphate-solubilizing bacterium species but they do not list its actual name.....here are some of the names they DO list though....

Our KEY MICROBIAL COMPONENTS include:
BACILLUS: (32 SPECIES)
Bacillus azotofixans (2 strains): nitrogen fixation
Bacillus azotoformans (3 strains): nitrogen fixation, plant growth hormones
Bacillus megaterium (2 strains): decomposition, nutrient cycling
Bacillus polymyza (5 strains): anti-fungal, nitrogen fixation, nutrient cycling
Bacillus thuringiensis (2 strains): entomopathogenic
Bacillus licheniformis (6 strains): enzymes, plant growth hormones, soil structure
Bacillus pumulis (2 strains): decomposition, nutrient cycling
Bacillus subtilla (10 strains): anti-fungal

so maybe one of these is the phosphate-fixing one.....but i'm not sure which one.....anyway i thought we might be able to mix up a bacterial cocktail just for TAG monks and laypeople alike......what do you think?

awsome that you have finally settled on the Dutch Masters ONE.....i can't wait 'til flowering to see the results.....-gp

 

[Guest]

I'm sure we could, however I believe any of the major innoculation products will do. There was one I saw a while back that had like 100 different strains. A good cocktail would have MitoFungi and the AM/Nbac double punch with a little food for them to get started, which some products like LK contain. Anything with Humic Acids (really just decomposing matter) will support the bacterial life...the fungus needs a home on the roots first and the right environment, but wont develop greatly unless the plants are stressed.

But I'm sure there is either an ideal product or ideal mix for TAG no doubt. Is it possible to foliar feed Phosphorus I wonder?

 

[AeRoGaNiC]

Diehard has a lot of strains of AM in it. Thats bacteria you listed but AM is fungi. The AM shares phosphates and nitrogen mostly with the roots in exchange for sugars they exude.

I'm pretty sure that the bacteria only do the their nitrogen fixating thing as it relates to the nitrogen cycle, where as the AM sometimes even has phosphalipid storage nodules. Diehard is nice because the more strains you have the better. The best one(s) for the job survives and the lesser efficient ones die off.

 

[JustATry]

What's up ladies? Sorry, been really busy at work.

Plants are going great. I am seeing atleast 1" of growth per day right now. A couple plants are looking mighty light green, so maybe some more N is called for. I am unsure so I will wait a few days to see. One is the BOMB! I didn't touch my rez for three days and came back to it half empty (10 gallons) at 1600 PPM and 5.8 pH, just where I left it three days prior!

*pic six is of clones with zero veg, they are starting to catch up but I think veg'in in TAG is a must for decent yields - five more weeks will tell.





Root porn... ...sure I have got some!

 

[Guest]

Looks like that DieHard IS our cocktail...excellent read:
I was going to post the ingredients but there are like 5 pages..lol

http://www.hortsorb.com/msds.html




JAT - Lookin' Shaggadelic my friend

Are you seeing a difference between the XL table and Toro?

 

[JustATry]

Thanks buddy! I am not seeing that much of a difference right now, but let's wait a couple of more weeks to see. I think the key is going to be running a combo of the Toro's and EXL - that way you cover both ends of the spectrum. All the pics above are of the Toro's, just for reference.

BTW, that Netafim video is great! I watched that like 30 times tonight while Miss Trainwreck was visiting me. But, according to their website, they are running a 90µ constant window. Still thinking these will work?

And the DIEHARD Endo states, "...After use and one week before avoid use of phosphate fertilizers. Avoid the use of high phosphorus fertilizer as this treatment would have a negative effect on Endomycorrhizal colonization. Organic nitrogen fertilizers are recommended." What is considered "high phosphorus"?

 

[Guest]

JAT - You read the exact same thing I did. I am thinking not to PH your water is what they are stating as the Phosphoric Acid might hinder their work? If you look on all the TAR and LK products you'll see they are usually always Nitrogen based additives.

As for the foggers droplet sizes on that sight.
They are because they are using it for foliar application, they have found that anything under 50µ tends to drift and stay in the air...so their entire line is devoted to >50µ droplet sizes. However they have a number of foggers that are considered 'fine' and are used for humidity control and evap cooling. I've also seen a fellow TAGer that uses them with tremendous results in old coleman beer coolers.

I wanted everyone to see the different components and how they go together: High pressure delivery, anti-drip, etc. And that video of how you could just pulse the nutrient spray gives me the shivers....

Like just thinking...20-80µ pulsing in a pod would work just fine. I just love to watch that instant cloud burst and drop in succession on that video...very cool. But the reason it drops as it does is because most of the mean droplets are above 100µ for those applications, but like I said...they have other nozzles and there is a lot of info on that sight, sort of like the Mitochon sight I just posted for the DieHard Innoc. Shitloads of good reading and info for those interested.

BTW, I think the Toros are a good eco nozzle for TAG. Xls as well, but the Toros you can also run under lower pressures and don't clog as often, however with psi lower than 50 the root development isn't as spectacular as the XLs can be. But at that point we are just splitting root hairs.

Here are the pictures that started it all for your's truly. :smile:

My buddy Lumpy's roots and rig.



Its a complex rig using a sprinkler pump and a Netfim fogger. Nice roots thought, no? lol He was a father of modern TAG.

 

[Guest]

These are the usual suspects DieHard uses in their innoc.

BACILLUS: (32 SPECIES)
Bacillus azotofixans (2 strains): nitrogen fixation
Bacillus azotoformans (3 strains): nitrogen fixation, plant growth hormones
Bacillus megaterium (2 strains): decomposition, nutrient cycling
Bacillus polymyza (5 strains): anti-fungal, nitrogen fixation, nutrient cycling
Bacillus thuringiensis (2 strains): entomopathogenic
Bacillus licheniformis (6 strains): enzymes, plant growth hormones, soil structure
Bacillus pumulis (2 strains): decomposition, nutrient cycling
Bacillus subtilla (10 strains): anti-fungal
PSUEDOMONAS: (2 SPECIES)
Psuedomonas aureofaceans (2 strains): anti-fungal
STREPTOMYCES : (2 SPECIES)
Streptomyces lydicus (2 strains): anti-fungal
TRICHODERMA (6 SPECIES)
Trichoderma harzianum (2 strains): anti-fungal, plant growth hormones
Trichoderma viride (2 strains): anti-fungal, plant growth hormones
Gliocladium virens (2 strains): anti-fungal

Most of it is designed to act as a preventative by eating all the food available to the bad fungi and bacteria..promoting growth.

 

[AeRoGaNiC]

All I need is a flow/pressure gauge/valve for my accum tank and a cycle timer before my TAG is up. I'm stuck with roses (which I really like anyways tho!) or tomatos for the moment though. Argggg haha.

As far as the micron rating on foliar feeding goes, its a lot like pesticide applications. Do a quick search and you can find the forumulae for droplet size and drift. A 50 drifts twice as far as a 100.

Off to work!

 

[Guest]

DAY 26 of Flowering

DAY 26 of Flowering

I just love watching these girls grow...24 hours later that late blooming Cinnamon is kicking ass!


Three days ago vs. Today.

Meanwhile here is that Cinnamon Twig I got to root...so surprised was I.


This sort of backs up my claim as to why I like to take clones during stretch usually. The top growth shoots from veg have not rooted this entire time, as a matter of fact they both damped off twice. This little twig is a 3 week old flowering branch (tiny puny little nothing) and is popping roots right and left after about 3 days in a FAcloner. I just think the growth hormones are so much more active in the stretch period and it makes rooting much easier, my flowering cuts always root faster and out grow any veg cuttings I have in the cloner so it just seems like a waste of time to clone in veg unless you are using a mother. (This pertains to Pet-Grows and new seedlings only)

As usual the Rhinos are loving it.



All the leaves are nice and dark and shiny green like they are supposed to be. Turning off the blower at night was a good idea.



And just a little more detailed root porn, cause you just can't get enough you perv!

 

[Guest]

Let's see...Tell me TAG Don't Rock! lol

Let's see...Tell me TAG Don't Rock! lol

Just under one month...from Sept 18th till today.

RhinoxBlue 1 week veg.

And my favorite:

The baby Cinn.

24 Days of Flower...oh yeah...lol