TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[JustATry]

Well, I just did a complete rez change with the new DM P+. This is how I added everything -

Cal/Mag - 200 ppm
PBP Grow (3-1.5-4) - 3.5 ml/gal - 150 ppm
DM P+ (1-5-11) - 200 ppm
LK - 5 ml/gal - 50 ppm
HG - 10 ml/gal -50 ppm

I had to add a little pH down and that brought me to 600 ppm @ 6.0. I am going to let this run a couple days and see how it works out. With the PBP Grow and the P+ I should be at 4-5.5-15, which would be 12-16.5-35. I will have to watch everything closely and see how this works out. Where is the botanist AeRoGaNiC, he should be chiming in on this shit.

The carnage...

 

[Guest]

Your poor ladybugs

Just concentrate on the N:K ratio being 1:4, the Ph down was probably to offset the higher K, I think once you get the mix you need the Ph dictates the P level. The nice thing is once you get your mix close to the 1-1-4 ratio you can always just add plain RO to dilute down the ppms.

So you'd still be at your ratio but you can go down to 600 ppms if you want and just balance with Ph down adding more P or N depending on what you want or see. If you have yellowing leaves (all over) then use some N down (or N fert) if you see Yellowing between the veins and purple stems then use Phosphoric Acid adding P. That should give you a good ideal what your mix should be overall for your strains I'd think.

I just noticed at lights off my girls are getting dark dark dark now...looking like they are starting to get the hang of the new mix like ASAP. We'll see tomorrow. I added a little RO as after the HG and TAR I was up about 950. I'll see what it is tomorrow and go from there, but things are looking great.

I've got a new design for a portable TAG table that is about 8x4. I'm going to build that out tomorrow and see if I can't get it up and running and transfer the sheilds over so I can improve the ventilation and go ahead and run a full pair of 1Ks. I've got about 8 rooted clones that need to go into something (TW so zero veg is fine) and I'm going to take cuts for the next gen and throw the old moms in for flowering as well... should just wompem'

I don't know if you got over to the Nutrient thread JAT but this chart here will help you. You can use any of these for whatever you need.

 

[JustATry]

Thanks! I am at 1-1.3-3.75, so that's pretty close. We will get this down one way or another.

Man, I remember a while ago when I was telling you to setup a bigger grow. You said, "...no I am going to wait until I get a new place." But the grow bug wouldn't leave you be.

 

[Guest]

Did anyone start a construction thread yet?Im using a Aerojet 6 tray system currently.Ive been having alot of problems with it because I had the misters(actually they are sprayers) running too frequently.My roots would be bright white for the first few weeks and then they went to hell.This happened multiple grows.I finally realized that this is just a NFT/Aero hybrid system and I cant run the misters as if it was a true aeroponics system.I just happened to come across this thread at the same time I realized the limitations of the system.Im interested in building my own system but, dont have the luxury of being able to experiment and lose a crop.I know that experimenting is inevitable.A construction thread would help me to iron out the kinks in my mind first though.Any links would be helpful.

 

[JustATry]

down cast - there really isn't a step-by-step guide to the rigs we are all building. As you can see, everyone running TAG has a slightly different setup. We are still working out all the kinks in the systems right now, but we aren't there yet. We can give you all the details on what various items are needed to put a rig together, but a 1,2,3 guide isn't going to be available for a while. Sorry buddy.

 

[Guest]

Well,I wasnt looking for a 1,2,3 guide.It was just mentioned early in the thread that a construction forum would be started.I was mainly wanting to just keep an eye on other peoples progress.I suppose that Ill just keep an eye on this thread.There was also some mention of threads at OG.I did a search on tag and nothing came up.

Edit...Oh yea.You guys dont have any problems with your plants falling over not using anyhting to suppoort them?I use net cups with hydroton in em and they fall over in those.I do grow 3-4 footers though.Only thing I can think is that the weight of the roots counterbalances the foilage in your guys systems.

 

[Guest]

Happy Monday fellas...

DC,

Keep an eye out as I'm going to start on a new rig within a week. I'm taking down my old rig and starting over. I plan on posting progress with pics here as I go with details, etc.

- GroNut

 

[Guest]

All the FYI on what you need should be able to be found in the first post of this thread as this is pretty much the building forum.

DC- if you just do a little reading on this thread you should have all you need to build your rig. If not, I suggest you look up the TAG threads on OG as there is about 160 pages of rig building over there. But the basics of the design are very simple and I thought quite clearly stated in the first post.

If you follow the 10 commandments of TAG you'll pretty much be there!

However, the rig you have wont work for TAG I'm affraid. Any aerotube design causes a backup in the TAE and causes rot, which is why your roots go to shit. Your temps inside your (probably not UV protected) tubes gets above 80F and kills all the AM/Nbac which is then stuck in an anaerobic environment where the bad guys rule! Heat + no O2 = healthy rot.

So, that is one problem you will face. The root zones need to be fully exposed (which is the choice for pod design) and if possible left hanging in a TAE.

As for pumps, nozzles, filter, valves and all that shit. This is the tech board for that and it is a personal preference.

Just do a little self-education on the topic by reading through the thread as I believe several rig designs and build outs have already taken place on here and I know I've posted a number of diagrams and drawings on the basic design strategies.

good luck.

 

[Guest]

Now back to Skywalker...

Oddly I'm seeing really red stems on the RhinoxBlue and Cinnamons, not so much on the TW or the Bubble or even the NLxHaze. So I'm thinking the indie dominants want more P?









Which is odd because I've mixed up a new mix that is almost entirely P/K at this point with lower levels of N and just the reg. amount of Cal/Mg..so not sure if it is a lock or what.

The ppms this morning were like 1200ppms and Ph 5.8 so I added some more nutes and RO to 650ppms and added a little N (pee pee giggle) as it seems to fix everything immediately. But we'll see tomorrow.


For some strange reason I think the ph should be closer to 5.6 I don't know why...throw backs from FAGing I suppose. I just feel the 6.0 is locking out the P and K isn't getting absorbed as much as the N might be locked out at high levels and high Ph.

As the water ph keeps dropping, maybe the K is locking out the N and leaving the P and N in the water causing the ph to drop. Anyhow the extra organic N should help and balancing back down to a reasonable level maybe they'll respond. The roots look ok, but still should be moving faster I think...maybe I'm just being impatient, as I'm sobering..yikes.

It would seem to me, however that my nutrient strength might be too low after all. Looking at these plants I'd say they could use more N-P-and K as well as Mg...so maybe I should try bumping up ppms and keeping the ratio fixed...maybe that would amount to a better solution.

I have a feeling they could just go crazy eating everything...I'll have to experiment obviously. Looking at the chart I have on nutrient ranges it would appear that P is at its lowest at 6.0 ph...and the entire mix would be better around 5.4...so I'm going to drop the ph with some N and P for now and see what happens tomorrow.

 

[Guest]

I just wanted to post this one...cause she is so cute.



I got 8 of these trainwrecks and a lonely Durban seedling that is like 2" after a month...sad shit, and one left over NLxHaze that wasn't kicking it in Skywalker so they are into veg now for next months rotation.

Going to take some more cuttings today of the NLxHaze..these girls grow like wildfire in anything I swear! I should have another full 8 of them as well...so I'll be set for the next pod in a couple of weeks. I think I'll run 2 separate on monthly rotation, just incase I fuck something up again.

This is how I wish all my clones looked going into veg. lol



Just look at those roots, lovely!
If I can do nothing else, I can clone. lol

 

[Guest]

Did you run into any similar probs. with your wonder tubs or were they smooth sailing throughout?

GroNut

 

[Guest]

You mean as far as the nutrient issues? Yes, same problem, just a different fert. manufacturer.

Honestly I'm starting to suspect that they could manage a lot more ppms than originally thought. The 'old' school belief was that too high a level was causing the 'burn' which infact is actually a K def. in a sever way. As the Widow buds were huge and those were grown at like 1200-2000 ppms and were still showing Ca deg and K deg all the way to the end. It was, and is, confusing.

However, I found I had a Hydrostore (owned by a really cool dude and his wife) that gave me the opportunity to talk with someone that had been using that ultrasonic fogger unit ( he is running pepper and some others under the new T5 floros.) Sweet!

But anyhow, he talked me into dropping the Ionic and going with Dutch Masters.

After looking at their ratios they are much closer to what I'm trying to achieve and I think they might have a solution. This is what I ended up with:

Info on Dutch Master's philosophy and background: http://www.elementshydroponics.com/category/dutch-master


Grow One Grow 2-0.3-3
Grow One Flower 1.8-0.5-3.1

Their Potash+ is a 0.7-4-11 (Which is very close to the Hydroplex's 0-4-10)

With their Potash and Grow One Flower the heavy flowering mix would be a 2.5-4.5-14.1 (which gives a ratio of 1:5.6 even higher N:K ratio)

So we'll see how it pans out.


He raved about how superior it is and after doing some research they do seem to be the leaders in Cannabis Hydroponic Nutrient design.

The nice thing is they are cheap too. The Grow parts are like $9 each (just two of them grow and flower) and the Potash which was like $19...but should last.

I also got to see the new T5 floros...very sweet. 40,000 lumen under one panel.
The ultrasonic table he had he told me worked alright for pepper and such, but they are very finicky about the nutrients. Because the roots don't really abosorb much of the water the nutrients get absorbed out of the solution and if they drop much he said they wilt fast. Figures with such little water available.

He said he hasn't had problems with algae or fungus which is good, but that they wilt at the drop of a hat.

So that was my visit to the Hydrostore. lol Also got some LK. :wink:

 

[Guest]

I hope you guys get it dialed without much trouble. Thanks for laying the groundwork as well; it will help a lot of us big time I guess that's all part of the fun though, if it was easy it may become boring.

I bought some t5's and I love them. I have couple of the 2' models for moms. They are 96 watts each and deliver more usable light than the 400 mh I was using before. The 400 obviously had stronger light but it was consentrated in the middle and very uneven around the edges. I moved it higher to get a more even footprint using a light meter and there goes the light strenth. So just as much or more usable light for half the watts is very cool. Perfect for moms or shorter plants with the bonus of less heat and space savings.



I finally freed up my flowering room and did pretty well this time. I will be close to 1g per watt











I will miss my tubes though, they treated me well even with some occasional brown roots

So I'm ready to smash a couple fingers with a hammer, smash some more when the drill slips off the screw head, peel some skin off while removing epoxy resin, and breath some nice pvc cement fumes

- GroNut

 

[Guest]

Damn those T5's are nice. I didn't realize they threw so much, I wish I had...just like you see, the floros give you a nice lumen all the length of the tube..so, even if not great for big grows, they are awesome for smaller ones or vegging or well, hell anything. lol

Like I told JAT I think, you can throw those tubes up as a Collosium TAG towers around your Aero grow and catch you some extra buds off the side lights if you are using a HID. Just a thought. :wink:

Always thinking..lol

Buds look yummie...I'm Green with Envy.

 

[JustATry]

FUCK!! Had to leave town for a couple of days and had the gf watching the girls. Well sometime before the time she arrived and four hours before the breaker blew for the pump. So there was no pump and 4K of HID's blasting my ladies. I arrived and found the pump off again, WTF! It's on it's own 15A breaker so there must be something else going on.

Needless to say I lost a whole table (50) and I am hoping the other table should come around. Most are back upright, just have some crispy leaves. I hate it when this shit happens. So I need to take some more clones now too.

 

[Guest]

It has got to be today my friend, for sure it has got to be. I have had the worst fucking day from hell as well. Luckily haven't lost any of my plants, THANK FUCKIN' GIA. But all else that could fuck with me today has. I can't even begin to list the bullshit I've had to put up with today, primarily at Home Depot.

I started on my new table this morning to have every possible conceivable thing be too short, too long, in the way or lost. Going to HD to find once again after months of not stocking they stiill don't have the most basic of PVC 1/2" fittings...so I had to drive across town to Lowe's...where of course they had them.

I just went back to HD for fuckin' 1/2" dia. washers...None in the bath and plumbing department and an empty box of replacement washers in the garden area with no back up and no supply. I don't know how the hell that HD stays in business...

Then, I found a cool makeshit bulkhead adapter that I'm using for the drain...they don't have it in there system. Then, they can't ring it up...I'm telling you....just shit all day long.

AND I'M FUCKIN' OUT OF WEED TO BOOT. HOLY SHIT! COULD IT GET ANY WORSE...of course is can...but let's hope not. Christ! I'm serious JAT...sometimes it isn't worth waking up in the morning..and had I been able to sleep all day I would have cause it has seriously been the fucked day from hell.

But, its almost over, but still no weed in town..no dealers with any word and me about to go postal and take out the entire staff at HD...not good.

That is why I decided I'm running this other table...I'm gonna make sure I have enough fuckin' weed to never go through this shit again...(which was last times plan...but I fucked that up too).

But I'm almost done with it all and once running, I'm taking a long ass break from building shit. I need some R&R.

Of course it wouldn't be half as nasty if I wasn't detoxing through this shit.

I hate coming down for days. I hate more that anyone can go right out and hit the liquor store and get shitfaced anytime they want, but cause hemp is evil I have to deal with going out of my mind dealing with idiots and morons. Ahhhhh...

lol Ok, I feel little better.

Sorry JAT you had that happen, I used to have that happen all the time with my sprinkler pump. It would flip my breaker and shut down the entire room, but luckily I'm usually here.

What I figured out was it was the back pressure on the pump, it causes the amps to go up or spike I guess. It would do that shit all the time while I was like hanging from my HID trying to do venting or something over the 1000 degree bulb.

Click..total darkness and trapped on a ladder above my grow in the dark....lovely. But not any more, thank Gia....damn JAT...so sorry to here that...hate to loose plants..reminds me of the fuckin' Hammock I'm now completely pissed at for fuckin' my savior grow. Oh well...no rest for the wicked, eh?

 

[Guest]

That suks big time JAT, sorry to hear that. At least you weren't a month or more into it. I hope you find a simple fix.... if you don't you can try an amp meter on the pump to check the draw through its cycle.

POD,

GinneaPig posted this link the other day to a shop in TX selling a new T6 bulb which puts out simiar lumens to a T5 and fits in a standard T8 fixture. Super cheap... http://www.naturallighting.com/store_front.cfm?&parent_id=54

 

[guineapig]

wow those plants love those T5 fixtures....are you using the cool white bulb or the warmer one?...yeah check out that website POD....it looks like a new evolution in the fluorescent game....-gp

 

[Guest]

Looking great!

The guy at the Hydroshop had both cools and warms mixed in his Tek5, I was surprised how thin the bulbs were. Those 110 watt T8s look sweet 5600 lumen...gotta love that. 8 of those and you'd be set to flower.

However I don't like that they say full spectrum at a 5000K temp. Full spectrum is 6500K they are missing the higher mark, but I'm sure it doesn't matter that much when you are swimming in cool 40,000 lumen gentle glow.

Maybe that is the difference between 'Daylight' and 'Full Spectrum'?

 

[Guest]

Sorry GP, I can't spell for shit.. I can manage GP tho, ha ha

The moms are under the 6500k and they just love them. The bud shots came from 2x600 hps hotilux. I am really considering supplementing the sides of the flower room with those T6's. A lot of benefit I would think.

- GroNut