TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Guest]

Ha Ha, I was right..

I checked out that sight guineapig and as I was reading the ingredient breakdown I noticed he was using Zinc and Mg as his 'shuttle'. My thought was, hmmmm probably linked to that RNA sequencing I was just telling your about.

Check it:
"zinc - like copper (for example carboxypeptidase, DNA-dependent RNA polymerase)

"magnesium - chlorophyll component, counter ion of ATP, important for protein biosynthesis"

So he is just increasing or has a special version of Zinc and Mg or he is just full of shit. lol But basically that is the component that is used in the sequencing of DNA for protein synth. just like K is needed for the same.

Potassium is what the proteins are made of primarily I belive that construct the plant tissues. They use Mg in their ATP complex where animals use P. Not that that is really relavent.

This is cool though...




http://www.plantcell.org/cgi/content/full/13/12/2761#SEC2

It would appear that he is using the same technique. It looks like they feed these bacteria that create a higher number of these transport molecules and move in and out more redly. Nice use of science.

 

[Guest]

Welp, its been about 12 hours now with the 1K running and temps are still in target ranges (73 room, 67.8 root) Running with just a blower circulating the air in a cyclone through the rigs structure. Happy, Happy.

 

[Guest]

Have you, or do you know someone using fog in conjunction with aero? I was wondering if the time between sprayings could be decreased if using fog in-between. It really pissed my brother off when I told him growing with that nutramist system was out. He didn't quite understand why. I told him something about it not being able to support the nute uptake of fully mature plants.

 

[Guest]

Check the first post.

 

[Guest]

Me personally, no.

As this question is asked about every 10 pages, you are more than welcome to build a rig and run it here with fog if you'd like. It would be nice to watch your documentation on it. Science says its not a good bet, but you can knock yourself out proving science wrong. I'm up for it.

 

[Guest]

Ærocanna stuff
(Just ignore this stuff if not interested, I'm just collecting info and sorting shit out...I'll delete and move to a separate thread later)

I found this interesting as I was just doing a basic search for symbols of Ra, thinking I haven't even explored the 'symbolic' side of this, and having a Masters in Art History...that's sort of stupid.

Interestingly look what others have beat me too...lol

http://www.summum.us/about/welcome.shtml

I have to honestly admit when this shit happens, if totally does freak me out. Not in a funny way.

However...

Notice the 'Snakes' Guarding the Sun (Star or light) with Wings (in motion)? Cool huh?



The winged sun disk is a very ancient symbol. Long before Egyptian civilization flourished, the sun disk appeared in the literature of ancient Sumer, which was the first known civilization.

In ancient Egyptian religion, the sun disk became a primary symbol of Ra, the sun god. He was called the Sun Of Righteousness with healing in his wings," a title which Christians later adopted for their own god.

The sun disk was carved over the doorways of many Egyptian tombs and temples, and it appears on many papyri. In the illustration above, the sun disk is carried on the wings of Horus, and flanked by two uraeus.

 

[guineapig]

ya that symbol is kinda the theory behind the masons....there are 33 levels and each level is a step in spiritual development symbolized as a collection of rays of light.....you've seen those rays of light emanating from the federal eagle, eh? count the rays and it should be 33......not that i'm into werid masonic conspiracies.....but i love reading about the masons and concepts of spiritual geometries of spaces.....and always rememebr that very high concentrations of THC were found in egyptian mummies.....they even found cocaine residue.....now how could those "primitive" egyptians could have possibly obtained cocaine which grew on the other side of the world?............eh? -gp

 

[Guest]

Ærocanna stuff
(Just ignore this stuff if not interested, I'm just collecting info and sorting shit out...I'll delete and move to a separate thread later)

I had to remove that other post, as it had profit contamination...I can't stand that...it corrupts the energy. The updated post is a little better qualified to be an example. I liked the incorporation of math though.

I find it interesting how they say, "Christians later 'adopted' it for their god"...hmmmm 'second-handers'? I think I see the corruption.

But, yeah... even more odd, is the connection from our race conversation. How did a race that had evolved so far all the sudden stop and regress to the state they exist today? Here again, the Roman (white race) civilized the world while they preoccupied themselves with taking care of their own individual personal needs. And here again...slaves for like 1000's of years, but no one bitches about that. So how bringing them from the deserts of Africa to the lush most abundant country in the world makes the white race guilty of what? We had like...200 years of slavery? Slavery in America began in 1607 and continued until 1865....258 years of slavery and slavery has been abolished for...140 years. So maybe they're off the hook in 60 more years? Hopefully we'll start to see more black scientists, physicist, botanist and artists and less 'black studies'. (Not busting on the black race, just sayin' don't see the the balance here).

"Africa underwent 300 years of slavery. Before the discovery of the Americas, the Portuguese were the first Europeans to import slaves to offset the missing agricultural workforce. These slaves came from the commercial counters and the forts set up on the African Coast. The coastal exploration of Africa and the invasion of the Americas by Europeans in the 15th Century led to the development of the slave trade phenomenon.

Slave trade activities produced a fair number of archival documents (written or graphic) which often are preserved under unfavorable conditions in the countries having undergone slave trade or in those having practiced this form of human exploitation.

In the European countries from which the slave trade was organized, information about slavery is recorded in the state archives, particularly those of the navy and customs administrations, as well as the colonial and commercial administrative bodies. These slave trade documents date from the time trading posts and colonies were established along the African coasts, when the trade was first organized in France and England at the end of the seventeenth century. " So why are we still bitchin' in America about this shit?


And, just one statement I'd like to point out before anyone gets all high an mighty here (which oddly, no-one has ) but I just have to ask this question about the whole, "George Bush doesn't care about black people" thing... Were not these the same people that hated George Bush and didn't want him elected in the first place? Are they the ones constantly blaming everything on George Bush that goes wrong and how incompetent he is?

And now they want him to save them? I just have to laugh at that, despite the horror of that unfortunate event. I feel horrible for the real victims of that tragedy, however...might think twice before condemning the man you want save your ass now next time, ya think? JMHO.


"I spit in your face, but now I want you to bail my ass out cause I didn't prepare for shit and well,...you owe me." Ya, right!

But that isn't what I'm doing here, I don't care about that shit or racist shit...not about that, just an objective reality that I think is way out of balance and supporting a very unbalanced 'life-form' of its own.

But back to studying Ra and the Light in motion.


signed to resemble the eye of a falcon, this symbol is called the Eye of Ra or Eye of Horus represents the right eye of the Egyptian Falcon God Horus. As the udjat (or utchat), it represented the sun, and was associated with the Sun God Ra (Re).

The mirror image, or left eye, represented the moon (Om), and the God Tehuti (Thoth). (A very similar concept of the sun and moon as eyes appears in many religious traditions)

According to legend, the left eye was torn from Horus by his murderous brother Seth, and magically restored by Thoth, the God of magick. After the restoration, some stories state, Horus made a gift of the eye to Osiris, which allowed this solar deity to rule the underworld. The story of this injury is probably an allusion to the phases of the moon as the eye which is "torn out" every month.

Together, the eyes represent the whole of the universe, a concept similar to that of the Taoist Yin-yang symbol. Spiritually, the right eye reflects solar, masculine energy, as well as reason and mathematics. The left eye reflects fluid, feminine, lunar energy, and rules intuition and magick. Together, they represent the combined, transcendent power of Horus.



This glyph looks like the Singularity (Om) / Knowledge-light interchange / Ra as a Ray of light.

The sun was the primary element of life in ancient Egypt, we find this importance reflected in the art and religion. Some of the most popular gods had a solar connection. The sun was first worshipped as Horus, then as Ra and later as Amun-Ra There are many other representations of the sun, including Khepri, the great scarab who symbolizes morning and the ram-headed god Khnum representing evening. During the reign of Akhenaten, the sun was worshipped as the Aten. A form of the sun disk with its rays depicted as arms holding ankh signs. Another common form that the sun takes is that of Horus Behudety, the winged sun disk flanked by uraeus.

This is interesting as well...



Shen
A loop of rope that has no beginning and no end, it symbolized eternity. The sun disk is often depicted in the center of it. The shen also seems to be a symbol of protection. It is often seen being clutched by deities in bird form, Horus the falcon, Mut the vulture. Hovering over Pharaohs head with their wings outstretched in a gesture of protection. The word shen comes from the word "shenu" which means "encircle," and in its elongated form became the cartouche which surrounded the king's name.

 

[ChunkUFarley]

Hi Aeroracers, I have a few thoughts what do you think?

First you state that it would be best to have a backup pump ready. I was wondering, why you don't already have the backup on board from the beginning. It would seem that you could hook two of the pumps together( through a T or Y, or cross fitting at accumulator) , thus cutting the demand time down and wear and tear on a single pump. If one did fail you would have redundency with your backup. It is stated on Shurflo's site, that Shurflo pumps are capable of with standing a back pressure of 200psi. So though I can only guess, this would be way below your target pressure of 50 lbs ( and your demand switch cut off) , and have no ill effect on the either pump. Or possibly you could have each on separate timers for day and night cycles?

Are any of you TAG racers using 12 volt pumps? Except for the battery and charger you would need, you can buy 2 for the price of one 120 volt pump.

Also when buying a tank, would a water heater expansion tank, work just as well for a accumulator as many others? They come in various sizes, and have a 3/4 inch inlet. They come precharged at I believe at 40 lbs and have working pressure up to 80psi.before needing a pressure reducer. And have a maximum working pressure of 150 to 180psi. Many are made for potable water though I have no idea what fertilizer salts would do to them. What are your ideas on this?

Now I know how you love your poms PR, and that you already covered something like this, but I was wondering if you or any of the other racers have experimented on setting up some kind of a biological filter at say mid level ( higher , lower) in your pod. Just something for the roots to travel through, maybe a course netting ( 1/2 to 3/4) with bio balls. I don't know ( hell you probably already figured that out right : ) ), But anyhow something where you could cut down on the use of the hydroguard or liquid karma, or what ever it is that you use to establish and keep the bacteria in place. Like the back up pump, bacteria on board. lol

Sorry, for so many questions ( and hopefully you haven't answered these previously and I am just a dumb shit ) but you racers have me staying awake at night wanting to build a aero system. I have been watching this since the first post, and I must say your -ucking up my sleep. Keep up the Great work! And thanks for all the links and time you have put into your posts!

l8rs

 

[Guest]

Hey Chuck, (Peppermint Pattie ref) :wink:

No problem, can't say for the hot water heater tank, nothing with an element for sure as your ph will be fluxing and will erode any metal easily. The accum. tanks are usually pretty cheap, so that is the benefit I think. You are really just looking to maintain the pressure for 30 seconds so you don't need a lot of storage unless it is a huge TAG.

I do love my Pom Poms...lol, but no..you need no bio interface. You really don't even need HG..its just a great safeguard for those with warmer root temps or res temps. If you can keep your water temps in the target range of 62-74 F you don't really need it. It is only a preventative and safeguard but as you can see I've never needed it.

There is so much oxygen and aeration that nothing can live in there but the benies, but if you have hot humid root temps in the high 70's and no light protection you can run the risk of feeding a bunch of algae and fungus as the AM/Nbac shut off above like 78 F then die. So they are just food then for the predators.

A lot of people have attempted to talk me into screens and such, but this is all unnecessary by far. In a well balanced TAE you need little to nothing at all, all the extra shit is just like adding 'fuel additive' and using 'Titanium plugs' in your rig, but like little Skywalker there...He's running with nothing but the basics and they are loving it.




Invest your money in your TAE not adding stuff to the environment. Think less is more. The AM innoc and all that is only necessary if you really fuck up and is a residual from Aerotubes. If you look through my gallery on OG you'll see for close to 1500 pictures I have never had rot outside of DWC.

I use HG just out of habbit more than anything and LK is just good crap to have in an organic mix as it has a lot of Chelating Humic and Fulvic Acids I believe.

The way it works is like this: The plants are hanging out enjoying themselves, then the root temps start to rise. Once they get up to the 70's the AM kick in and go crazy mulitplying to attempt to protect the roots from the heat and transpiration taking place above. Then as you hit 80F and above in the root zones the AM shut off and die, the water can't hold as much DO so the Oxygen levels drop in all the crevices and the bad bacteria thrive in a low oxygen high heat enviroment.

So you have effectively turned your idea TAE for your roots into an idea TAE for growing pathogens and debris eating bacteria, that is only doing its job. With the lowered number of AM/Nbac alive and working more root cells die, then more food. When the food runs out, the bacteria will kill and eat to stay alive in it's 'ideal' TAE.

So, you need to either make sure your temps are under 78F or use some sort of 'preventative' like HG which just keeps an abundance of bacteria in a dormant state with some food for them so if you need them, they are ready to act.

But there is so much DO in the water you'll see it is like H202 and just keeps everything crystal clear and sparkling white. You'll know if your screwing up by the fact that your roots are not perfect looking.


Hope that helps.

This was like yesterday morning...

Todays Pics...


And the Cinnamon Seedlings are happy as well.

 

[HOVAH]

what size pumps?? PODRACER JUSTATRY

what size pumps?? PODRACER JUSTATRY

im about to invest in a pump for my TAG bench , how powerful of a pump do i need, 1/6hp or 1-1/2hp, for a 100 plant grow... if Justatry could give the size of pump he uses and size of pressure tank .... thanks 1HOVAH

 

[Purpleseed]

I am running 65 and 72 on another table with a Flotec 1/2 hp.
I have 46 nozzles.
I noticed that if I go in the 50's(nozzle)the mist loses it's 'fume'and turns more into droplet,the nozzles creating an X shape stream,watering more like 180 degrees than 360.
So you could use a 1/2 hp for 100 plants and have one nozzle per 2 plants.
It really depends on the number of nozzles,with adequate pressure.The more the better,because of clogging and you want 100% root exposure.

 

[Purpleseed]

Thanks for the great answers Pod!This brings other questions:

How would I drop the N level if I'm using Floranova one part?
My guess would be to put less Floranova and cope the rest with something like pk13-14,but,we can't!
Or simply change nutes in late flo,wich is a little tricky.
Can you tell me why,we can't use a product that's pure P and K as basic nutes?

Guineapig :nice finding,it's bookmarked!Hope someone will try it or I will order next month.You've been doing some homework hein ? :wink:

I bought myself a sulphurr burner!That guy said to put one TBS of sulphur every day for a week or so.Run it at night.
The instructions says to ventilate before entering the room.Sounds like,evacuate the air but I have no IN or OUT the place is concealed using CO2 enrichement.Is it safe if I wait a couple of hours ??



Pod,I simply LOVE Egyptian spiritual stuff!!!It's so fascinating!
I've been reading a book writen by an author that says he travels time trough astral projection.The story is about Akhenaton(that's how we have it in french)and it's told trough the eyes of one of Akhenaton's preist.IT IS SIMPLY AWSOME!!!The revelation in this book is very powerfull.Even if the story would be totally made up,you just live through the book and grow with the story.
Akhenaton change the Amon(sun God) for Athon:the black sun behind the sun.As he was seeing the population adored and worshiped the sun in idolatry,he made this sudden change to keep people from falling into illusion.
He wanted everybody to push there conviction and beleifs further.He wanted everybody to become their own preist.He got murdered,poisoned by the preists that were already in place in the reign of he's father,Amenophis III .

 

[Guest]

Wow, that is interesting. I'm totally fascinated by how all these clues as to the secret to balance has been here all along. That is the amazing part to me, that even from the birth of consciousness we 'intrinsically' knew that the Sun (star) was our creator (all organic molecules are formed inside the heat of a star and can only be formed there) and the subsequent 'birth' or explosion of 'light' gave rise to the masculine force or Ra and the balance has been sought ever since.

I like that it even predates the Egyptians and the Christians, as you can see the 'original' understanding and balance between Dark (night) and Light (day) and the Om (or Amon) Ra unity. It is just fascinating.

The pump I use is a 65 psi Constant pressure dia pump, if you are doing 100 nozzles I'd suggest either the 100 psi models with a tank and solenoid trigger, or a sprinkler pump as you will need the pressure, like PS explained, to maintain a nice 'aerosol' spray.

You can use the dia pumps up to about 60 nozzles and then they start to need help. The sprinkler or booster pumps don't get the pressure, but have the sheer volume to account for that. Its a bit of tinkering I'm afraid.

What is the sulfur burner for PS? Do you have mildew? I'm not familiar with sulfur burning I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound like anything you'd want to be breathing, much less..sulfur stinks..peewww...lol

PS this is also why I have never used Floranova, from what I've seen it is too strong a concentrate, like using fish emulsion for N which seems to burn the plants too easily in hydro. I also don't understand their lack of K and how you are suppose to deal with that. Another M8 of mine had issues with that and just ended up switching, like most of us, to Botanicare's line instead.

It would appear from everything I've gathered to this point that the ratios should remain pretty close to 10-10-30 for most of your grow in TAG. BioControl uses a mix for Herbs and Tomatoes that all are about that same ratio, which tells me that is the secret to my own 'tip burn' and speckling.

The shots I took today demonstrate that now that I'm running high K my leaves are flawless again.





Floranova is so low in K I don't know how they compensate. So, if I don't understand their logic I don't use them. Its that simple. Botanicare, though a nightmare to balance IMO has the best 'philosophy' for nutrients in hydro.

Ionic has the best 'science' application along with Doc Carbon's shit. However none of these are ideal for TAG at this point. So you'll have to mix your own still.

I would just aim for a high 1-1-3 (K) ratio. The reason you can't use a straight p/k for fertilizer (unless you are talking about adding N separately) is because the N is necessary for their metabolism. And you must have all the trace elements as well or all bets are off. I have a feeling there is so much ionization that we probably need very little N, but I'm not testing that on this grow...I need reserves of weed first.

I'm still a little low on the P I think, but I can't figure out how to get that in without dropping the ph.

BTW, my Ph has been dropping to 5.4 every 12 hours or so...which means more K (the ppms are not falling which indicates a build up of N). Every time I hit them with more K I come back they've grown about 3 cm. Might even be able to take 11-11-40 who knows.

Maybe I can mix up a P/K that is 6.0 ph? My hydroplex is too hot to add as it is like 2.9 straight. Or maybe Cal/Mag..might pull it up...I'll have to experiment some.

 

[Purpleseed]

Seems that people using Floronova are having either awsome results or problems.I bought the last bottle at an hydro store that won't be ordering it anymore because of people having problems with it.
The mix I use is very well balanced mix as I start with RO water,add Cal-Mag and LK for back ups+Floranova on the low side.The results I have are so good that I'm afraid of trying something else!
But I will try Ionic veg,bloom and boost and see if there is any significant difference.It will be nice to have white roots !!


As the Egyptians needed to see another side of their 'God',man really needs to
look at the beauty,mystery and deepness( )into woman!

 

[Guest]

Ew...how deep?

I was thinking, you could...theoretically, use Cal/Mag Plus + Hydroplex which should net something like a 2-4-10 and then bump it up with Ph Up (K) and Ph Down (P) neutralizing their base/acid keeping it at 5.8...That could match everything....though I haven't looked into further than an initial thought. I'll go blow up my grow room now, excuse me.

 

[JustATry]

Sorry for jumping ship fellas. Shit has been crazy busy around here lately. Let's see, what's new...

Got both tables up. Roots are popping all over the place, lateral growth is amazing, but no real sign of plants growing. I am seeing some yellowing so maybe I need to add in some PK 13/14 or Hydroplex. PR??

Here are some recent pics -




HOVAH - I am using Shurflo's 8000-813-238 pump and a Shurflo 2-gallon accumulator tank. This is sufficient up to 100 foggers and gives me 15-20 seconds of fog with a 1:30 recharge time.

 

[Guest]

Hey, wondered what happend to you...thought you were pulling a Stonemountain again.

I was thinking about PS's Floranova issue. You could use a 1-2-10 on top of it at a 2 to 1 ratio with your FN.

If you were using FN Grow.. Like this...

FN Grow = 7-4-10 so if you added twice the amount of the 1-2-10 (2-4-20) you would end up with a 9-8-30 which is pretty close to your 1-1-3 ratio.

Same for you JAT, don't know if you read the updates, but finding that the mix should be way high on the K. Biocotrol is using a standard 11-11-32 for their Herb and aeroponic veggies, so I think we've found the solution to the tip burn and specles finally. Now I've got lush life again. its a good thing.

That is if it works that way. I'm still really confused as to why we have both 10-10-30s and 5-5-15 or do we? Is it the same as just ratios or is the 'availability different? Like if put in 800 ppms of a 5-5-15 is that the same as 800 ppms of 10-10-30? I read that the ratio is set by the Nitrogen level, are these 'higher' valued fertilzers just because they don't want to use a decimal? Like 1-1-3.2 would be the same thing?

Ok found my own answer....sorry, it is by the N that the ratio is set. So a 20-10-10 is set by the N being 20... which would also be a 2-1-1 go it.

Some interesting charts on the Nutrient thread update. Check them out.

 

[JustATry]

Yes, a 1-1-3 and a 2-2-6 value would be the same when measured by TDS. The number values are by weight percentage. So the only difference would be one is diluted more.

 

[Guest]

Hehehe Your fishbones look sexy there JAT, you need to bump up your K as well I see. If you get your mix to a 1-1-3 ratio those leaves will darken up and they'll start to kick off for you. Your K def is stunting your growth.

Looks great however, can't wait to see them get all bushy.