Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[led05]

Few Questions for Slow

Few Questions for Slow

Slow, good thread and I had a couple quick questions when you have the time...

RE Your experience, you've mentioned a few times in this thread it took you 20 years or even more to learn the whole balance / importance of Ca, Gypsum, Managing Mg & K etc - why do you think it took so long to come to these conclusions?

I wonder why it took so long when this is well know stuff in near all undergrad AG programs and factors that any commercial Pepper grower or tomato grower for that matter has always paid attention to, well at least for a few decades. Cornell's AG program is down the street from me and I know a lot of those folks, this is common stuff for entry undergrad students, are these really revelations?

Secondly, I love to grow Peruvian Torches and know they get a lot of their moisture much like Redwoods do in their native climate.

Where you grow, is it really a desert based on Precip amounts or is it just sandy?

You have contributed a ton for a lot of people in here and personally I appreciate it very much, I hope these questions aren't taken personally at all....

In regards to the PH/TDS/EC Pens - They are good to have to measure after mixing (absolutely necessary imo) but why would anyone not just fix their inputs vs. measuring them often if they swing? What happens after you measure them anyhow, you fix it, right?

I'm shocked some of the growers in here, seemingly decent size operations don't have Pens, RO's filters etc but pay $50 to send in soil tests, this is a bit backwards !

 

[Dankwolf]

My water source is from a seasonal irrogation canal . i have 3 steps of filtration and a uv steralizing setup running as Well. Due to water sorce being from canal i am realy wanting to be able to test each batch of water before i fill or top off my sistern.

Ro setup would be nice but not in the budget at all.

 

[led05]

Water varies too much for a dosatron?

I would love to dive into water health. Those filters seem light for heavy use. This summer I will be using around 2-4k gallons a watering. Not sure one of those RO systems would best, or a dosatron.

LED05, pretty sure everybody in this thread has meters....... I personally use a PH sap meter, Ca meter, Ph meter, PPM meter, and a brix meter. I also send in soil tests monthly. I assume everybody else in this thread does as well.......

I would hope / think so too but the last few pages lead me to believe otherwise

 

[led05]

I can tell everybody here, 3-5k for a water filter would have paid for itself if I had used it last season.........Bicarbs..........Ouch.

wait, but good organic soil will buffer anything, right.... haha.... ;0

 

[HillMizer]

I was running 8ppm boron according to the Logan Labs analysis at one point last season. They ending up being pretty large plants. They were growing over an inch per day at the time the analysis was taken.

 

[led05]

I can tell everybody here, 3-5k for a water filter would have paid for itself if I had used it last season.........Bicarbs..........Ouch.

I can't direct message yet, is it 50 posts....? Bulldog, check this one out for your needs. I don't have one of these models but the components look good and I can speak to Goulds Pump (down street from me too....now ITT Corp, not the school) and they make probably the best pumps on earth, including huge desalination ones used on Oil Rigs etc, these are the folks you want your pumps from IMHO, USA as well

https://www.reverseosmosis.com/promax-2800-reverse-osmosis-system/

https://www.reverseosmosis.com/promax-5000-gpd-reverse-osmosis-system/

 

[led05]

Operating psi at 115?

Need to do some studying. Thanks for the link and model. Just might be what I pick up.

Edit: TDS readings in and out. That video sold me. Still need to study up, but I'm liking it.

BTW, they have two metrics for direct messages. 50 posts and a certain amount of time. Not sure how much time, but you need 50 posts no matter what.

I believe the pump itself brings it to that pressure in order to get that many gallons per day RO'd, the housing and fittings handle this fine of course, output is not at 115PSI as I understand it, nor is input.... As mentioned, I don't own one...

I linked to these before but don't think anyone saw them, to me, these are dope models for the price

 

[led05]

Talked them on the phone. Those guys are on point. They told me what was needed, and I already put a call into the well company from my area to up my PSI out of the well. Needs to be 35-40psi+. 20-40 psi coming out. Will slow things down considerably, but looks like a great option. Thanks for the heads up.

Anybody else know of any RO systems that can filter around 5k gallons a day?

Run RO water it into a reservoir (dig a big fkin hole, use some Geoliner and make a small pond, throw a air pump in it, run the RO always (well how ever much you need into said cheap pond) then pump out of the reservoir / pond or whatever you choose at whatever PSI your heart desires, ya dig

 

[plantingplants]

Hazy here is a pm from rb26 about Hydrologic. These sound nice and solid.

They built me a 4000GPD unit with a softener and carbon pre-treatment. Its an amazing unit and I highly recommend them. It hasn't need any maintenance in a year besides refilling the brine tank with salt. The pre-treatment filters clean themselves on an automated schedule. Cost effective? I don't know, I think they are all automated. It wasn't an add-on that I paid for.

The 2000GPD is the same unit just with a single membrane. The rack is expandable to six membranes at 2000GPD each. I think the 2000GPD was somewhere around $6,000 but I'm not sure. I paid around $9,000 - $10,000 for my setup.

There is no comparison to the Evolution 1000, its the difference between a 4-light grow in a basement and 100 light warehouse. I've had 4 of the evolutions and speaking from experience they do not run 1000GPD (.7GPM) they do more like .4 - .5GPM. It used to take me six hours to fill a 200G reservoir. My unit now does 4GPM and thats only with 40PSI incoming pressure and can run 24/7 if you so choose, its a complete workhorse. It fills those same 200G reservoirs in 45 minutes, as opposed to 6 hours from the EVO.

Really just depends how much water you need and what your storage capacity is.

Also to be clear, there is nothing wrong with the Evolution. Its a great unit that never failed me but theres only so much it can scale.

 

[led05]

Hazy here is a pm from rb26 about Hydrologic. These sound nice and solid.

when pricing out anything related to this space, I've personally always found that if you go Commercial route focused on OTHER industries you pay a lot less and actually get better, looks like in this case the Hydrologic solution is 2x's the cost of the commercial one I linked too, I wonder if all there stuff is SS as well and quality pumps..., the water softener in front is a nice move though, allows them membranes to work a lot less....

Most everything in this space exists elsewhere cheaper, if you know where to look -- Kind of like not buying the Woo Woo

I've used hydrologic stuff small scale in past and it's good product

 

[Space Case]

I run a Hydrologic 1000 RO to all the humidifiers in the indoor rooms and to a single rez that I only use for cloning. Everywhere else, I deal with the bicarbs, and as long as I don't actually add MORE carbonates to the soil, I can deal with it with gypsum and pH controls pretty easily.

RO always comes with some guilt when you live in the old west, and not like I'm gonna use RO water for field agriculture. Kind of negates all the other work done by growers to mitigate erosion, leaching, etc.

 

[led05]

I run a Hydrologic 1000 RO to all the humidifiers in the indoor rooms and to a single rez that I only use for cloning. Everywhere else, I deal with the bicarbs, and as long as I don't actually add MORE carbonates to the soil, I can deal with it with gypsum and pH controls pretty easily.

RO always comes with some guilt when you live in the old west, and not like I'm gonna use RO water for field agriculture. Kind of negates all the other work done by growers to mitigate erosion, leaching, etc.

very good point on the water use, looking at some of them and seeing 4 or 6 GPM waste is like man, not only where does it go but that's a lot of water.... where I am water is not nor will every be an issue during our lifetimes, if it is the world is fked - Great Lakes

 

[caterpillar710]

Getting a Ro machine is the exact opposite of what thisbthreads about

 

[led05]

Getting a Ro machine is the exact opposite of what thisbthreads about

If your inputs are bad enough, what do you do to fix them then Cat? Just run with it? That's not science or farming. Have you ever been on a large scale or even small commercial AG site and see what they do with water, where do you think Cannabis is heading?

You manage what you can and factor in the environment in those decisions but if you really think large operations don't manage their water through and through, well your not informed.

I've seen you mention Greenhouses, are you just using whatever source water you get in there, come on man....

I guarantee you Slo doesn't just use whatever water is given to him, if he says he does he either has a very good starting source or isn't being entirely honest or maximizing. My guess is he does tweak things all along the way, he maximizes it seems everywhere else.

So we'll add all these elements to the soil but not touch the water, who you kidding?

I'm all for the environment but also about maximizing which in turn is also in the end beneficial to the environment

 

[plantingplants]

He's right. This thread is about how gypsum fixes everything. Including shitty water lol

 

[Space Case]

If your inputs are bad enough, what do you do to fix them then Cat? Just run with it? That's not science or farming. Have you ever been on a large scale or even small commercial AG site and see what they do with water, where do you think Cannabis is heading?

You manage what you can and factor in the environment in those decisions but if you really think large operations don't manage their water through and through, well your not informed.

I've seen you mention Greenhouses, are you just using whatever source water you get in there, come on man....

I guarantee you Slo doesn't just use whatever water is given to him, if he says he does he either has a very good starting source or isn't being entirely honest or maximizing. My guess is he does tweak things all along the way, he maximizes it seems everywhere else.

So we'll add all these elements to the soil but not touch the water, who you kidding?

I'm all for the environment but also about maximizing which in turn is also in the end beneficial to the environment

I have never visited a hay field, or a corn field, a tomato field, an orchard, or a vineyard that used RO water or even bothered filtering irrigation water beyond maybe a course mesh screen. All my time in the Emerald Triangle, Napa, Sonoma, Central Valley, Grass Valley....still haven't seen an RO unit sitting out there. Not once.

Farmers in Nebraska use fracking water to irrigate, cuz they don't have a choice. You use the tools you have and often changing the water source is not very feasible. Bicarbonates are not that big of a deal. I had a neighbor with Uranium in his well water, it killed plants even after passing through an RO unit and deionizer.

 

[led05]

I have never visited a hay field, or a corn field, a tomato field, an orchard, or a vineyard that used RO water or even bothered filtering irrigation water beyond maybe a course mesh screen. All my time in the Emerald Triangle, Napa, Sonoma, Central Valley, Grass Valley....still haven't seen an RO unit sitting out there. Not once.

Farmers in Nebraska use fracking water to irrigate, cuz they don't have a choice. You use the tools you have and often changing the water source is not very feasible. Bicarbonates are not that big of a deal. I had a neighbor with Uranium in his well water, it killed plants even after passing through an RO unit and deionizer.

fair points but how many pepper or tomato fields have you seen commercially, most are grow under poly-carbonate, and that is where this particular plant is headed, whether it's liked or not....

The quality and controls are there, a perfect blend if you will..... Time will tell.... Yes there will be your "Milwaukees Best" brands out there but the quality will come under controls, especially as people start sharing more and advance this plant family forward much like the advancement we've seen the later half of the 20th century with near every other major crop out there, not GMO, markers and traditional breeding and free information flow...

Sharing in here is tough, I'll move on...

 

[led05]

I have never visited a hay field, or a corn field, a tomato field, an orchard, or a vineyard that used RO water or even bothered filtering irrigation water beyond maybe a course mesh screen. All my time in the Emerald Triangle, Napa, Sonoma, Central Valley, Grass Valley....still haven't seen an RO unit sitting out there. Not once.

Farmers in Nebraska use fracking water to irrigate, cuz they don't have a choice. You use the tools you have and often changing the water source is not very feasible. Bicarbonates are not that big of a deal. I had a neighbor with Uranium in his well water, it killed plants even after passing through an RO unit and deionizer.

higher dollar value annuals are grown indoors, Peppers, Tomatoes, Cut flowers, Orchids etc all under Polycarbonate and control, those more mature plant industries went there for a reason.... Hay, Corn etc not really comparable - Grapes, Orchards etc are NOT annuals, btw, have you seen the asians growing grapes inside cold tunnels and Polycarbonate - it's happening and has been

 

[Space Case]

fair points but how many pepper or tomato fields have you seen commercially, most are grow under poly-carbonate, and that is where this particular plant is headed, whether it's liked or not....

Well, my wife's stepdad just retired from being the largest tomato grower in the southeast United States. And I personally have family in Europe that live near Almeria, Spain, the greenhouse capital of the world, and have had a few relatives and friends there that worked in the tomato growing plastic cities there, and still no RO systems, even though its a desert and their water is alkaline. My other cousins own and operate huge commercial flower nurseries, growing poinsettias and chrysanthemums, all with drip irrigation. Still no RO systems that I could see. They have injectors to deal with alkalinity, but no RO systems. Also, the city of Boulder, CO and many other municipalities in the legal western states have actually banned RO systems in commercial grow facilities, because of how wasteful they are. But I guess I'm talking out my ass again.

 

[led05]

Well, my wife's stepdad just retired from being the largest tomato grower in the southeast United States. And I personally have family in Europe that live near Almeria, Spain, the greenhouse capital of the world, and have had a few relatives and friends there that worked in the tomato growing plastic cities there, and still no RO systems, even though its a desert and their water is alkaline. My other cousins own and operate huge commercial flower nurseries, growing poinsettias and chrysanthemums, all with drip irrigation. Still no RO systems that I could see. They have injectors to deal with alkalinity, but no RO systems. Also, the city of Boulder, CO and many other municipalities in the legal western states have actually banned RO systems in commercial grow facilities, because of how wasteful they are. But I guess I'm talking out my ass again.

it doesn't have to be RO, the water has to able to be used and not throw everything else out of whack.

I bet they are using something to treat along the way or after they mix and calculating things so the nutrient mix balanced with the soil or whatever medium is used.

The point wasn't that RO is the end all and savior (for many smaller ops though it is the logical fix if your water is effed), the point I was trying to make is the water you use is just as important as the soil as they are one in the same (i.e. water & soil management are both equally critical) ... If you don't have good controls of your water source then you're wasting your time on the soil/medium as it's going to change it and you'll be chasing your tail, especially if your water has swings (wells, irrigation creeks etc)....

I'm sorry if this wasn't clear, I suck at getting my point across.....

Thanks for your replies and thoughts, there appreciated !