Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[slownickel]

any insight on this soil is welcome please..
found this soil localy for use as part of my base mix, its hot at EC 3, but i guess im going to cut it
what are they talking about Ammonium acetate?
thanks in advance

Technical data:
Humidity 105 ° C: 1.4%
PH (ext.1; 25.5 H2O): 7.6
Cond. Elec. 25 ° C (ext 1; 25.5 H 2 O): 3.01 dS / m
Mat. Organic (Walkley-Black): 2.90%
Nitrogen-nitric (N-NO3): 20 mg / kg
Phosphorus (P) (Olsen): 62 mg / kg
Potassium (K) (ext. Ammonium acetate): 856 mg / kg
Magnesium (Mg) (ext. Ammonium acetate): 380 mg / kg
Calcium (Ca) (ext. Ammonium acetate): 4453 mg / kg
Sodium (Na) (ext ammonium acetate): 171 mg / kg
Carbonates: <3%

Ammonium acetate at what pH? For Spain with an alkaline soil, I would bet that this is ammonium acetate at a pH of 7. This will break up carbonates and give you back an unrealistically high Ca number. In fact, everyone will say that this soil is suffering from high Ca. haha

Read this from the PGA https://goo.gl/tu1id6

 

[HillMizer]

correct me if im wrong..

mg/kg is identical to ppm no?!

nitrogen (20ppm) x 2 = 40 lb/acre
calcium (4453ppm) x 2 = 8906 lb/acre
phosphorus (62ppm) × 2 × 2.2913 = 284.12 lb/acre
potassium (856ppm) × 2 × 1.2046 = 2062.28 lb/acre
Mg (380ppm) x 2 = 760 lb/acre

C.E.C. = [(lb K ÷ 780) + (lb Mg ÷ 240) + (lb Ca ÷ 400)] × 1

K - 2062.28 ÷ 780 = 2,64
Mg - 760 ÷ 240 = 3,16
Ca - 8906 ÷ 400 = 22,26

CEC = 28

You're right no conversion needed! Just testing you

 

[plantingplants]

Ppm means mg/kg AND mg/l? I learned about ppm when calculating fertilizer solutions, so I have been using mg/l for calculating soil amendments. So there is 2 mg of B in 1000g of my soil, not 2mg in 1 liter. I guess that's what space case was trying to tell me. I just amended with micros and calculated the additions by volume. Whoops. Sample is in the mail so we will see what happens

 

[TnTLabs]

going by the doc you linked slow i guess you are right that they tested at 7 and did not use the Elevated pH >8.0 method.. i have asked them just to be sure...

if it is the elevated ph method then its the best testing method for soils containing calcite or gypsum says the pga... any point in using this a part of the base mix?

hehe ok HillMizer, one day i will get you back..
i want to learn so its all g

 

[TnTLabs]

Ppm means mg/kg AND mg/l? I learned about ppm when calculating fertilizer solutions, so I have been using mg/l for calculating soil amendments. So there is 2 mg of B in 1000g of my soil, not 2mg in 1 liter. I guess that's what space case was trying to tell me. I just amended with micros and calculated the additions by volume. Whoops. Sample is in the mail so we will see what happens

hey,
this was my problem when i came to this thread as well...
i didnt understand the ridiculos high ppm´s they were callin for
im still trying to get my head round this

yes man, all 3 dont need conversion
2 ppm B sounds very high

 

[Avenger]

Ppm means mg/kg AND mg/l?

only IF the substance has a density of 1.0

 

[plantingplants]

2ppm B isn't high in high CEC/high Ca soil, from what we have seen in here. (it's low)... not to mention everyone has been using scooped samples which means B is closer to 3-4ppm. Hazy did well with 6ppm (scooped).

 

[Space Case]

only IF the substance has a density of 1.0

Ed Zachary! 1L of water weighs 1kg. Thats the beauty and elegance of the metric system. But if your remove all the water, i.e. dry your soil, your soil's density compared to water is much lower.

 

[plantingplants]

Aluminum becomes toxic IN AN ALKALINE SOIL when there are bicarbonates and you lower the pH more than half a point or so. This is the danger of using N-phuric or sulfuric acid. This form of toxicity of Aluminum happens to be one of the most toxic forms! AlOH aluminium hydroxide! Took me 16 years to learn that one.... Only one article ever posted that I can find, from 1929 at the Univ of Arizona.... Had to convince the librarian to scan it, digitize it and send it to me in Peru!

Slow, could you explain this more for me? How does low pH water in alkaline soil with Al create Aluminum Hydroxide?

 

[Space Case]

Slow, could you explain this more for me? How does low pH water in alkaline soil with Al create Aluminum Hydroxide?

You get a cation exchange with the soil complex. You trade a H+ ion for an Al+ ion. The H+ becomes part of the soil complex, and the Al+ enters the soil solution, ready and available to the plant and competing with other cations in the solution.

 

[slownickel]

Slow, could you explain this more for me? How does low pH water in alkaline soil with Al create Aluminum Hydroxide?

The magic moment is when bicarbonate in water is applied to the soil AND when the pH is lowered by more than 1/2 a point (0.5) on "new" soils (hi pH and where the evaporation exceeds rainfall) causing the bicarbonate to break up and CaCO3 is made, then the left over of bicarbonate (HCO3) in this process is an OH. Turns out the when the pH is lowered by more than half a point that liberates a bit of Al. When the OH hits the Al, that gives us Al OH (aluminum hydroxide) which can be more toxic than the acid forms of Al!

The form of Al in vaccines that is causing autism is..... Al OH!!!!

 

[TnTLabs]

The magic moment is when bicarbonate in water is applied to the soil AND when the pH is lowered by more than 1/2 a point (0.5) on "new" soils (hi pH and where the evaporation exceeds rainfall) causing the bicarbonate to break up and CaCO3 is made, then the left over of bicarbonate (HCO3) in this process is an OH. Turns out the when the pH is lowered by more than half a point that liberates a bit of Al. When the OH hits the Al, that gives us Al OH (aluminum hydroxide) which can be more toxic than the acid forms of Al!

The form of Al in vaccines that is causing autism is..... Al OH!!!!

you a believer of most vaccines beeing harmful?..
so much controversial information out there.. but my common sense says to stay clear

 

[Mukind]

you a believer of most vaccines beeing harmful?..
so much controversial information out there.. but my common sense says to stay clear

Theoretically as long as teh population you live in has reached herd immunity you or your children should have no negative effects.

And beyond making you more immune to something the vaccine sure as shit isn't doing anything good. Not saying I wouldn't vaccinate my children, just in case they ever went some where that didn't have the immunity could be very dangerous.

But there are certainly risks to consider. Especially if you're outside the US. We don't have a great history with this stuff....Gotta make sure the eugenics believers don't pull one over on you and sterilize you or something lol

edit - oh yea and thanks for this great thread and all the contributors. One of the best reads I've ever had on cannabis cultivation*. If a little off topic sometimes, like I'm adding to now as I type. Hopefully I'll have my own soil next year and 6 trees to report on. Til then il be watchin

 

[led05]

VPD

VPD

How much does VPD come into these equations? I mean Slo seems to primarily farm around the tropics where this really isn't much of a factor due to consistencies there but for most of the rest of the world and temperate climates this wrecks havoc on perfectly laid soil plans. Sadly, Gypsum can't just fix this one...

 

[paradoxlost]

The magic moment is when bicarbonate in water is applied to the soil AND when the pH is lowered by more than 1/2 a point (0.5) on "new" soils (hi pH and where the evaporation exceeds rainfall) causing the bicarbonate to break up and CaCO3 is made, then the left over of bicarbonate (HCO3) in this process is an OH. Turns out the when the pH is lowered by more than half a point that liberates a bit of Al. When the OH hits the Al, that gives us Al OH (aluminum hydroxide) which can be more toxic than the acid forms of Al!

The form of Al in vaccines that is causing autism is..... Al OH!!!!

This process also occurs via acid rain onto aluminum rich soils, etc. It doesn't just occur in alkaline soils. Also when this process occurs the pH will decrease dramatically

 

[slownickel]

This process also occurs via acid rain onto aluminum rich soils, etc. It doesn't just occur in alkaline soils. Also when this process occurs the pH will decrease dramatically

Yes, this is the normal process by which high rainfall areas become aluminum toxic. In the US, Georgia is the capital of Al toxicity research.....

The issue here is that aluminum toxicity can happen in alkaline soils and is a very real issue which NO ONE looks at.

Almost no one...

 

[Space Case]

How much does VPD come into these equations? I mean Slo seems to primarily farm around the tropics where this really isn't much of a factor due to consistencies there but for most of the rest of the world and temperate climates this wrecks havoc on perfectly laid soil plans. Sadly, Gypsum can't just fix this one...

Slow farms in the desert on the equator, not the tropics. The VPD chart is bullshit statistical data that doesn't apply to 99% of us. I had someone on another site tell me that you can't grow trich rich quality buds outside of the VPD chart range. This same person said that anything grown in the desert is more stressed and lower quality....love to hear what slow has to say about that....

What do you mean it wrecks havoc? Disease and pest pressure are more related to plant nutrition. Obviously environment is a factor, but talk to orechron about growing in humid temperate coastal climates. Maybe not gypsum, but calcium can always fix this....

Has anyone that preaches VPD read any more on the research beyond just parading the chart around like a crucifix?

 

[slownickel]

Slow farms in the desert on the equator, not the tropics. The VPD chart is bullshit statistical data that doesn't apply to 99% of us.

On my last visit to Cali, I posed the issue of humidity and temps to a bunch of growers. Then I passed the issue by a PhD (pretty heavy duty) plant physiologist who is pretty much a genius, conclusion? The VPD concept got blown out of the water.

I have farmed in Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic and here in Peru. Humid and dry topics...

Where can I produce the best quality and highest yield, by 3 to 5 times? Dry tropics with relatively low humidity (30 to 40%). Why? Heavy evaporation.

This means you better know how to irrigate.... and you better know how to fertilize.

Just got some Tahoe OG and Sunset Sherbert clones planted, lets see how I do....

 

[slownickel]

you a believer of most vaccines beeing harmful?..
so much controversial information out there.. but my common sense says to stay clear

I did the math on Al and Mercury. The numbers are absurd. Several hundred times the Al and Hg recommended by the FDA themselves per body weight. Absolute stupidity. I showed our Doctor my math and his jaw dropped. He said he would call the companies and express his concern! I told him good luck with that and let me know how they respond.... hahaha.

Only gave my latest the polio vaccine and even then, wish I hadn't... Paid for all the vaccines and it looks like he has them all. Then slipped the nurse $10 and had her throw them all in the garbage. Gotta love Peru!

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

Ive been trying to figure this out, hopefully you guys could help with clarification. As far as knowing when your plant is in a "reproductive" phase or a "growth" phase. is it the same with all C3 plants, this process of going in-between reproductive and growth? for example does maze have the same growth/reproductive cycle as cannabis?