Is that the growingyourgreens guy?
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Is that the growingyourgreens guy?
Here are the pics of some of the leaves.. The top row is just to show the number of fingers on the fans.. None have under 7, and theres only A couple with 7s. Most are 9-12..
The bottom row is the bad stuff im getting..They start to droop then get A weird rusty/weird looking..
The leaf on the left has that weird stuff.
The bottom row is the bad stuff im getting..They start to droop then get A weird rusty/weird looking..
The leaf on the left has that weird stuff.
So after reading about Senescence, I some how came up with an idea lol... Wouldnt it be good to Derive her of certain nutes/minerals and create A colder Temp for the area your plants are flushing in? Since they use alot of there food/energy to make seeds and stuff to be able to survive or create new offspring after winter?
Yeah Hazy, I even have pictures in my "New Grow Log" thts in my sig. The pictures should be somewhere around the middle when my SSSDH girls are vegging.. I took pics cause I was so suprised..
But right now I havent seen more then 10 Fingered Fans.. I usually have alot of 11s.. But I actually have been topping them so maybe in A couple weeks ill have more then 10 Fingered Fan Leaves again..
I wish we could figure out why they do that...
Yeah Hazy, I even have pictures in my "New Grow Log" thts in my sig. The pictures should be somewhere around the middle when my SSSDH girls are vegging.. I took pics cause I was so suprised..
But right now I havent seen more then 10 Fingered Fans.. I usually have alot of 11s.. But I actually have been topping them so maybe in A couple weeks ill have more then 10 Fingered Fan Leaves again..
I wish we could figure out why they do that...
TnTLabs
Active member
yes exactly... funny dude.. he is geeky cool.. seems knowledgeable..
just hilarious how he talks..
A good video by the talking PhD's about gypsum. They almost got it right. Aim at 85% Ca folks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZ4M1C60xI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZ4M1C60xI
Natural Farmer
New member
I am not sure if anyone else has noticed or observed this, but I have found the high calcium saturation (81.5% much in carbonate form)+ peat + microbes from EWCs creates an enormous amount of CO2 for my sealed room. I first assumed it was only the carbon/nitrogen ratio in my mix but now I am thinking that it has more to do with the carbonates. I was able to push roughly 200 gallons of soil to produce 1000ppm+ for my 8'x8' room over the past six months with no bottles.
I assume my water being low in carbonates helps this reaction take place. I have been ridiculed for even suggesting this possibility by a few knuckleheads on other sites but it is starting to make much more sense to me at least.
I assume my water being low in carbonates helps this reaction take place. I have been ridiculed for even suggesting this possibility by a few knuckleheads on other sites but it is starting to make much more sense to me at least.
Natural Farmer
New member
jidoka- It took me by surprise this summer but I was able to dial the CO2 in to 1400-1600 ppm pretty consistently using temperature and waterings + fish always helped. I am still a little in the dark on how much comes from microbes vs caco3 but when I tried an experiment of 30 gallons without calcium (peat microbes rice hull) I was only reaching the low triple digits.
Natural Farmer
New member
On pg 77 of this thread is the mixes recipe. I feed just liquid kelp, hydrolysate fish and molasses only with epsom salt time to time.
Best temp for CO2 is between 78 degrees and 82 degrees with moist soil.
First month 1500-2500ppm
second to fourth month 900-1500 ppm
fourth to six month 600-1100 ppm
I'm mixing up a new batch in the next few weeks and will get a test done and post here.
I was able to get two grows out of this soil mix without reammending.
Natural Farmer
New member
The one difference however between my recipe I posted and the mix I used was the new mix that I posted had less caco3 and more gypsum. You may have to tinker with the recipe a bit but Ill see what the test comes back as before I add any more.
TnTLabs
Active member
i actually remember looking at that mix and thinkin.. nice, but a few things are fancy...
BUT glad it worked so well for you!
Im going to have to substitute a few things as i have not found them close to me in spain yet... cant be sending the stuff over from the states...
need to do some more searching localy
BUT glad it worked so well for you!
Im going to have to substitute a few things as i have not found them close to me in spain yet... cant be sending the stuff over from the states...
need to do some more searching localy
yes exactly... funny dude.. he is geeky cool.. seems knowledgeable..
just hilarious how he talks..
I was subscribed to his YouTube channel for about 2 years, but got annoyed by his ADHD rants and "compost tea and rock dust fixes everything" approach. Still a bit too novice and hippie leaning for me, not enough science. But for the layman, I guess he is ok. But he could make all of his videos 80% shorter if he was more poignant and focused. Not the best professor, IMO, but at least a motivator.
Crab shell and rice hulls should be an easy find in Spain. Thats all the leftovers of a good Paella!
Not tryin' to start trouble, also I have heard the source is not the most reliable.
Just wanted to throw this out there to maybe have it picked apart or maybe some points can be validated.
Anyway here we go.
Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor,
Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University
The Myth of Gypsum Magic
“Adding gypsum to your yard or garden will improve soil tilth and plant health”
The Myth
Upon continued prodding from one of my university extension colleagues, I recently watched several
episodes of a well-known gardening program on television. My kids joined me, alerted by my animated
responses to the host’s non-stop torrent of advice. Among many amazing discoveries I learned that by
adding gypsum to my yard or garden I would improve my problem soils by changing the particle size and
loosening compaction. Further searching on the web revealed that gypsum would also improve drainage,
decrease acidity, and eliminate soil salts. Previously, I had heard of gypsum for use in soil reclamation
projects, but not for a typical urban landscape. Since gypsum is simply calcium sulfate, could this
chemical truly transform soil structure and serve as a fertilizer for yards and gardens?
The Reality
This myth falls into the category of agricultural practices misapplied to ornamental landscapes.
Gypsum effectively changes the structure and fertility of heavy clay soils, especially those that are heavily
weathered or subject to intensive crop production. Gypsum also improves sodic (saline) soils by
removing sodium from the soil and replacing it with calcium. Therefore, one can see improvement in
clay soil structure and fertility, and desalinization of sodium-rich soils, by using gypsum.
What other effects will gypsum have on soil and plant health? There are a number of scientific studies
on gypsum usage both in the literature and on websites. Briefly, researchers have found:
• Gypsum does not usually change soil acidity, though occasional reports of both increasing and
decreasing pH exist;
• Gypsum can increase leaching of aluminum, which can detoxify soils but also contaminates
nearby watersheds;
• Gypsum can increase leaching of iron and manganese, leading to deficiencies of these nutrients;
• Gypsum applied to acid soils can induce magnesium deficiency in plants on site;
• Gypsum applied to sandy soils can depress phosphorus, copper and zinc transport;
• Gypsum can have negative effects on mycorrhizal inoculation of roots, which may account for
several reports of negative effects of gypsum on tree seedling establishment and survival;
• Gypsum is variable in its effects on mature trees;
• Gypsum will not improve fertility of acid or sandy soils;
• Gypsum will not improve water holding capacity of sandy soils; and
• Gypsum’s effects are short-lived (often a matter of months)
With the exception of arid and coastal regions (where soil salts are high) and the southeastern United
States (where heavy clay soils are common), gypsum amendment is just not necessary in non-agricultural
areas. Urban soils are generally amalgamations of subsoils, native and non-native topsoils, and – in home
landscapes – high levels of organic and non-organic chemical additives. They are also heavily compacted
and layered (and gypsum does not work well on layered soils). In such landscapes, it is pointless to add
yet more chemicals in the form of gypsum unless you need to increase soil calcium levels. This nutrient
deficiency can be quickly identified by any soil testing laboratory for less than a bag of gypsum costs. (If
you need to improve sulfur nutrition, it’s wiser to use ammonium sulfate). To reduce compaction and
improve aeration in nearly any landscape, application of an organic mulch is more economically and
environmentally sustainable.
The Bottom Line
• Gypsum can improve heavy clay soil structure and remove sodium from saline soils
• Gypsum has no effect on soil fertility, structure, or pH of any other soil type
• Most urban soils are not improved by additional gypsum
• Before adding gypsum or any chemical to a landscape, have soil analysis performed to identify
mineral deficiencies, toxicities, and soil character
• Adding gypsum to sandy or non-sodic soils is a waste of money, natural resources, and can have
negative impacts on plant, soil, and ecosystem health
Just wanted to throw this out there to maybe have it picked apart or maybe some points can be validated.
Anyway here we go.
Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor,
Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University
The Myth of Gypsum Magic
“Adding gypsum to your yard or garden will improve soil tilth and plant health”
The Myth
Upon continued prodding from one of my university extension colleagues, I recently watched several
episodes of a well-known gardening program on television. My kids joined me, alerted by my animated
responses to the host’s non-stop torrent of advice. Among many amazing discoveries I learned that by
adding gypsum to my yard or garden I would improve my problem soils by changing the particle size and
loosening compaction. Further searching on the web revealed that gypsum would also improve drainage,
decrease acidity, and eliminate soil salts. Previously, I had heard of gypsum for use in soil reclamation
projects, but not for a typical urban landscape. Since gypsum is simply calcium sulfate, could this
chemical truly transform soil structure and serve as a fertilizer for yards and gardens?
The Reality
This myth falls into the category of agricultural practices misapplied to ornamental landscapes.
Gypsum effectively changes the structure and fertility of heavy clay soils, especially those that are heavily
weathered or subject to intensive crop production. Gypsum also improves sodic (saline) soils by
removing sodium from the soil and replacing it with calcium. Therefore, one can see improvement in
clay soil structure and fertility, and desalinization of sodium-rich soils, by using gypsum.
What other effects will gypsum have on soil and plant health? There are a number of scientific studies
on gypsum usage both in the literature and on websites. Briefly, researchers have found:
• Gypsum does not usually change soil acidity, though occasional reports of both increasing and
decreasing pH exist;
• Gypsum can increase leaching of aluminum, which can detoxify soils but also contaminates
nearby watersheds;
• Gypsum can increase leaching of iron and manganese, leading to deficiencies of these nutrients;
• Gypsum applied to acid soils can induce magnesium deficiency in plants on site;
• Gypsum applied to sandy soils can depress phosphorus, copper and zinc transport;
• Gypsum can have negative effects on mycorrhizal inoculation of roots, which may account for
several reports of negative effects of gypsum on tree seedling establishment and survival;
• Gypsum is variable in its effects on mature trees;
• Gypsum will not improve fertility of acid or sandy soils;
• Gypsum will not improve water holding capacity of sandy soils; and
• Gypsum’s effects are short-lived (often a matter of months)
With the exception of arid and coastal regions (where soil salts are high) and the southeastern United
States (where heavy clay soils are common), gypsum amendment is just not necessary in non-agricultural
areas. Urban soils are generally amalgamations of subsoils, native and non-native topsoils, and – in home
landscapes – high levels of organic and non-organic chemical additives. They are also heavily compacted
and layered (and gypsum does not work well on layered soils). In such landscapes, it is pointless to add
yet more chemicals in the form of gypsum unless you need to increase soil calcium levels. This nutrient
deficiency can be quickly identified by any soil testing laboratory for less than a bag of gypsum costs. (If
you need to improve sulfur nutrition, it’s wiser to use ammonium sulfate). To reduce compaction and
improve aeration in nearly any landscape, application of an organic mulch is more economically and
environmentally sustainable.
The Bottom Line
• Gypsum can improve heavy clay soil structure and remove sodium from saline soils
• Gypsum has no effect on soil fertility, structure, or pH of any other soil type
• Most urban soils are not improved by additional gypsum
• Before adding gypsum or any chemical to a landscape, have soil analysis performed to identify
mineral deficiencies, toxicities, and soil character
• Adding gypsum to sandy or non-sodic soils is a waste of money, natural resources, and can have
negative impacts on plant, soil, and ecosystem health
Shaggy,
Everything is relative to where you are standing.
Read through Linda's stuff. She sounded like one of my soils professors. I would guess she is on acid soils in general. Love to ask her where she got her data.
Watch the videos a couple of pages back from some PhD's that actually farm and are not in agreement with Linda.
Then wander several pages back and listen to all the experiences that folks have had applying gypsum. The read and look at Tonygreen's results and ask him about his new found friend, gypsum. Tony is by the way the Gypsum King. He used 1 lbs per gallon, correct Tony? Ask him about all those root problems he had.
I personally farm in the desert of Peru, those thousands of hectares of cane, grapes, mangoes, avocado, asparagus and citrus growers will all get a good laugh at Dr. Linda's comments about using gypsum in the desert. A bunch of other stuff like washing out aluminum I got a kick out of.
Anyone else care to add a statement or two?
As I tell everyone. Don't take any ones word for it, you have to do your trials. The issue is what to trial. If someone can show you good science and give you a bunch of real examples in YOUR crop, maybe it is worth trying.
I always tell folks to get a good soil analysis first. The issue is never just one element. However, every soil I have ever tested and worked with needed one form or another of calcium. 24 Countries and counting...
Last edited:
Natural Farmer
New member
My apologies if this has already been posted but it is a very good source for accurate information. They even give you the trace elements found in various forms.
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/rf/Gypsum.htm
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/rf/Gypsum.htm
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