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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

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slownickel

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and Cater,

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't JIDOKA using his potassium sap meter when he was dumping all that potassium on? Or was the idea to see how high you can make the meter go?

One element testing will not get you far. This is a dynamic equation between a bunch of elements of which you don't have a testing method until you start testing foliar analysis and even then, there are elements that have symbiotic and antagonistic relationships. You elaborated on a couple of those.

Yeah, it is chilly here in Cali! Brrrrrr. But I am loving it anyways!
 
HazyBulldog

HazyBulldog

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Those meters tell you one thing, however plant sap tells another. Like SlowN said, Milky was dumping on K cause his meter told him so. That didn't go quite as planned right?

I have tried meters, I use a plant sap ph meter, brix meter, and a Ca meter. They all tell a much different story than my soil tests. That is why I brought up the Nova Crop Control data. They proved over time those meters are only good for a starting point. You map it out, it still isn't perfect. However, you care to share some of those results that you have mapped? That would be helpful to this conversation.

Have you heard of the other sap lab that is opening in the states?
 
caterpillar710

caterpillar710

Member
No shit is a balancing act.

If you have more than two brain cells left , and even if there's just two, if you spare them huddling together to stay alive and put them to use and watch those nutrient interactions if you know what happens on a physiological level

Until a sap sampling lab opens up or I can license the technology myself my meters are priceless when trying new stuff out. If you make a data set using the same meter on the same plants even if the meter isn't 100% accurate you still have a valid data set that you can use to make management decisions on.

No data will ever be shared freely. Ever
 
HazyBulldog

HazyBulldog

Member
caterpillar710 said:
No shit is a balancing act.

If you have more than two brain cells left , and even if there's just two, if you spare them huddling together to stay alive and put them to use and watch those nutrient interactions if you know what happens on a physiological level

Until a sap sampling lab opens up or I can license the technology myself my meters are priceless when trying new stuff out. If you make a data set using the same meter on the same plants even if the meter isn't 100% accurate you still have a valid data set that you can use to make management decisions on.

No data will ever be shared freely. Ever
Click to expand...


Not sure I meet the required prerequisites........:biggrin:
 
HazyBulldog

HazyBulldog

Member
Crap can't edit:

So what about tissue testing? That is available near you right?

I say open up that lab brother! I would use it monthly.
 
O

oct

Member
If there's anybody that's got their finances in check, its Cater...but a lab like the one he'd need/want is easily a few mil out the gate.

I'd also use it though if there was one. Eventually there will be I'm sure.
 
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orechron

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slownickel said:
Orch,
Did you use lime or gypsum to adjust your soil to that pH? I have NEVER seen gypsum raise pH. Please elaborate on your "bad"experience with gypsum. Sure seems like you had some high K and Mg as well as a high pH. Sounds like dolomite.... High Mg is a bitch to get rid of. And as you can see from your own numbers at 65% Ca, there wasn't enough.

Sounds like you are discussing two different scenarios.
Click to expand...

The two scenarios I'm talking about are fertility strategies for acid vs alkaline soils.

The 7.2pH soil was from a landscaping outfit years ago that didn't know what they were doing. The mix was called white lightning and was mostly municipal compost. I didn't add anything to it initially but had it analyzed for someone else after it didn't perform very well the first season. They probably did add a bunch of dolomite. All the K came from the compost, along with the 400+ ppm P.

Gypsum, in this case, was the correct amendment. It bumped excess Mg and K down to 10% and >3% respectively. The plants were healthier of course, but the new problems arose with K deficiency and micro deficiencies. Plant sap was alkaline (7.2pH) and aphids were coming in. I know you don't think there is any validity to sap pH but I've seen both ends of the spectrum and the results are consistent and replicable: low pH = fungal pressure, high pH = insect pressure. Insects seem to still be able to attack plants at low pH's in some cases, but I've never seen powdery mildew when the plant is above 7. I'm speaking mainly about cannabis; there may be exceptions in other plants.

HazyBulldog said:
When studying up on Crop Health Labs paradigm. They say no meter is valuable by itself. They all started with meters, but they saw the inconsistencies in them when they started doing sap analysis. Personally I believe the only metric that will be accurate is sap analysis, and as far as I know, nobody is doing this yet. Didn't Milky have problems with his K meter? Brix varies from day to day, sunny days to cloudy days, ext ext. Only hard data will be from the sap, IMO.
Click to expand...

Milky doesn't have a problem with his K meter. I think his meter was working just fine. His sap K was dropping late in the season and he was doing applications of AgSil and KSO4 to try and bring it up. If I had to guess the problem was a delay in K availability which lead him to apply more to get a better response. I've been here before. By the time his sap K was back up to where he wanted it, the soil K was crazy high. It's the classic pot brownie situation, keep eating more to get there then bam! you're more than there.

We were discussing the advantages of lower range K% for a while and it works well for me given that I'm really susceptible to mold in my valley, but I think he can get away with higher K% in his dry climate and get a better yield.

HazyBulldog said:
Those meters tell you one thing, however plant sap tells another. Like SlowN said, Milky was dumping on K cause his meter told him so. That didn't go quite as planned right?

I have tried meters, I use a plant sap ph meter, brix meter, and a Ca meter. They all tell a much different story than my soil tests. That is why I brought up the Nova Crop Control data. They proved over time those meters are only good for a starting point. You map it out, it still isn't perfect. However, you care to share some of those results that you have mapped? That would be helpful to this conversation.

Have you heard of the other sap lab that is opening in the states?
Click to expand...

Milky's situation doesn't prove that the meters aren't worthwhile. We are still learning nuances.

caterpillar710 said:
No data will ever be shared freely. Ever
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself! You've been on the mag for a long time drop tidbits here and there. It's a strange situation to be in given that there is so much money to be made off of just a handful of tips. Would be much different if this were a general gardening forum where people were only interested in growing food for themselves.
 
caterpillar710

caterpillar710

Member
We tried already one time to make it happen it's very hard to try to do so it's shelved for now while we work on finishing up all the farm infrastructure for rec
 
Dankwolf

Dankwolf

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Ok slownickel you called it my soil recycling finaly caught up with me or a have a virus . were do i send the soil sample .
 
R

reppin2c

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I'll take a meter reading over...they look better? Anyone dismissing meters is ignorant. I have a few but Im not 100% suave on what it all means and what to do with it. That's my ignorance. But I have a general direction vs firing aimlessly in the dark
 
HazyBulldog

HazyBulldog

Member
for the record guys, I am not saying a meter isn't good to use. I just plan to use labs this coming season, because meters have holes in them. Not dismissing anything guys.
 
Space Case

Space Case

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orechron said:
It's a strange situation to be in given that there is so much money to be made off of just a handful of tips
Click to expand...

Just the tip? *thats what she said*

Sorry, couldn't help myself... :tiphat:

orechron, got time to elaborate on the acid soil situation where gypsum didn't work for you? I think we touched on that the other day...
 
HazyBulldog

HazyBulldog

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liholiho yacht club, that's the one on Sutter right? One of the best meals I ever had. Little whole in the wall, but most places are in the city. They opened up a new restaurant called Louie’s Gen-Gen Room, also fantastic.

Shakedown Ice cream is bomb also.

August 1 five is great if you like Indian.

Gary Danko in Fisherman's Warf is a staple.
 
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