Mmmm sounds laborious. What, no pics?
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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation
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Mmmm sounds laborious. What, no pics?
See cater? There is your meter! The sensor is a bit cumbersome still. A large sensor stuck up your butt that measures the size of your smile! I have stayed away from the scientific sensor though. It is only for beginners.
Batteries not included.
caterpillar710
Member
I'll leave that for you. You seem to like to pull stuff out of your ass.
plantingplants
Active member
jidoka, why did you ask that? what does it mean?
slow, it sounds like you are messing around with these fellas but really tho-- how do you know they like your brew?? i am sure after however many years of farming you said you had under your belt you must be pretty sensitive to visual clues plants give. a lot of cannabis growers talk about their plants praying- the fan leaves position themselves upwards. i always wondered why that is valued, what it could mean, and why they truly do that. they do seem healthy when they pray but i"m just guessing when it comes down to it.
slow, it sounds like you are messing around with these fellas but really tho-- how do you know they like your brew?? i am sure after however many years of farming you said you had under your belt you must be pretty sensitive to visual clues plants give. a lot of cannabis growers talk about their plants praying- the fan leaves position themselves upwards. i always wondered why that is valued, what it could mean, and why they truly do that. they do seem healthy when they pray but i"m just guessing when it comes down to it.
caterpillar710
Member
Plants are mad if the leaves are straight up...FWIW.
Perpendicular to the light source has the most available light getting to it
Perpendicular to the light source has the most available light getting to it
plantingplants
Active member
See that makes more sense. Why would they reduce the surface area exposed to the sun? Maybe praying is a way to reduce transpiration?
Fisherman recognize fisherman cause they smell like fish. Some riper than others.
To be honest with you, I forgot all about your question regarding the limes and avo, been a busy week.
You think I give a dang about why you two go out of your way? You flatter yourself. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone.
I am here trying to help folk get on the right path. Anyone that ventured down the path appreciated the results.
I am pretty sure any GOOD grower in touch with his grow knows the difference between a sad plant and a happy plant. No?
Bickering aside, I'm still on the fence about neutral soils being better than those in the 6.4-6.8 range. I've seen both good and bad responses from gypsum applications in this scenario. The best personal experience with gypsum was in an overloaded soil (7.2pH, 65% Ca, 16%Mg, 16%K) the season after the application. pH came down to 7 (I get a lot of rain in the winter also) and the cations were in better ranges, lower K/higher Ca. Even though the yield increased there was still insect pressure.
In more acidic soils (6.8) I've grown veggies and cannabis that yielded really well and were not receiving insect pressure. I think there is a sweet spot and it has as much to do with pH as it does with adequate cations.
What I'll do, and all of you on this site can hold me to it, is find an acid clay with low levels of all minerals and bring the K up to 5%, Mg up to 10%, then do maybe 4 treatments with calcium at 55%, 65%, 75%, and 85%. I don't ave the space or the plant count to do very many but I will shot for 5 of each. I'll do several runs with this soil and document it. I'll get to it in mid Feb. when I'm done traveling for the year.
In more acidic soils (6.8) I've grown veggies and cannabis that yielded really well and were not receiving insect pressure. I think there is a sweet spot and it has as much to do with pH as it does with adequate cations.
What I'll do, and all of you on this site can hold me to it, is find an acid clay with low levels of all minerals and bring the K up to 5%, Mg up to 10%, then do maybe 4 treatments with calcium at 55%, 65%, 75%, and 85%. I don't ave the space or the plant count to do very many but I will shot for 5 of each. I'll do several runs with this soil and document it. I'll get to it in mid Feb. when I'm done traveling for the year.
HazyBulldog
Member
I have seen the metrics used by SlowNickel. We have a pretty good data base going now. That mixed with the tissue and sap samples ready to be studied next year, I think we are going to have a great base to study from. All this back and forth is great, however data is what is going to push us to the next level.
I have a lab that is doing tissue testing for cannabis that I will be using next year. I hope the sap labs will be ready to roll in the states as well.
BTW - If anybody has sad looking plants, you are way off right? I am trying to find the next level of plant health, not just healthy looking plants. Crop Health Labs says it takes 6 weeks for plant deficiencies to show up visually. Before a healthy plant looses that healthy plant look. Next year, I will be concentrating on those first 6 weeks, and making sure nothing falls out of health. Doing this with brix meters, soil tests, tissue test and hopefully sap analysis. In a perfect world of course.
I have a lab that is doing tissue testing for cannabis that I will be using next year. I hope the sap labs will be ready to roll in the states as well.
BTW - If anybody has sad looking plants, you are way off right? I am trying to find the next level of plant health, not just healthy looking plants. Crop Health Labs says it takes 6 weeks for plant deficiencies to show up visually. Before a healthy plant looses that healthy plant look. Next year, I will be concentrating on those first 6 weeks, and making sure nothing falls out of health. Doing this with brix meters, soil tests, tissue test and hopefully sap analysis. In a perfect world of course.
caterpillar710
Member
Yes you two show us how to do it
HazyBulldog
Member
Really Caterpillar? Why the negativity?
Orch,
Excellent trial.
One observation though. Did you use lime or gypsum to adjust your soil to that pH? I have NEVER seen gypsum raise pH. Please elaborate on your "bad"experience with gypsum. Sure seems like you had some high K and Mg as well as a high pH. Sounds like dolomite.... High Mg is a bitch to get rid of. And as you can see from your own numbers at 65% Ca, there wasn't enough.
Sounds like you are discussing two different scenarios.
HazyBulldog
Member
I had 22% mg before my gypsum feeds. Ended the year around 12 I believe.
The crowd wants blood. They want a measuring stick that goes beyond weight and quality. We need to look for a correlation between brix and the objectives on young petiole growth.
The problem with the refractometer is that it will measure sugars that are incomplete.
caterpillar710
Member
No the bloods in the water and that makes the sharks come
HazyBulldog
Member
When studying up on Crop Health Labs paradigm. They say no meter is valuable by itself. They all started with meters, but they saw the inconsistencies in them when they started doing sap analysis. Personally I believe the only metric that will be accurate is sap analysis, and as far as I know, nobody is doing this yet. Didn't Milky have problems with his K meter? Brix varies from day to day, sunny days to cloudy days, ext ext. Only hard data will be from the sap, IMO.
caterpillar710
Member
Of course nova crop control is the best way, no access to that unless I move to holland and I don't like the cold. I already detest the 3 months it's cold here. No way I could suffer 6-8 cold months.
The Horiba meters aren't perfect but you can make a run chart that is specific to what you're doing so you can actually map data with them that's worth more to me than a happy plant or sad plant reading. You can watch plant response on the meters, if you haven't done it don't knock it.
You can spray Mo and watch NO3 in the sap fall. You can do AlBion Ca and watch sap ca shoot up in new growth. You can watch K go up too after spraying PHT K.
Using the meters you can dial in how much to spray to get the results you're after and then check to see if you got there.
Tissue is 2 weeks behind the sap on average
Your point that readings vary is valid. That's why samples need to be taken at the same time of day from the same relative part of the plant every time and the weather data also needs to be noted.
Run charts are powerful.
I'll leave y'all to your happy vs sad and I'll take my data based decision making
The Horiba meters aren't perfect but you can make a run chart that is specific to what you're doing so you can actually map data with them that's worth more to me than a happy plant or sad plant reading. You can watch plant response on the meters, if you haven't done it don't knock it.
You can spray Mo and watch NO3 in the sap fall. You can do AlBion Ca and watch sap ca shoot up in new growth. You can watch K go up too after spraying PHT K.
Using the meters you can dial in how much to spray to get the results you're after and then check to see if you got there.
Tissue is 2 weeks behind the sap on average
Your point that readings vary is valid. That's why samples need to be taken at the same time of day from the same relative part of the plant every time and the weather data also needs to be noted.
Run charts are powerful.
I'll leave y'all to your happy vs sad and I'll take my data based decision making
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