Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[growingcrazy]

I haven't specifically added any, nor tested for it in this soil bed. What are your thoughts?

Micropak has Mo I believe...I am still using that as a micro base for my foliars and teas until it is gone.

Also wanted to note since Easy mentioned the low pH. The last bump in K this round will come from Ksil. K, Si and a slight pH increase.

Spectrum is running Si, Ill post the number when I get it.

 

[EasyGoing]

Mo I have used sulfates. However, kelp helps here. Micro pak and kelp seems to keep Mo up for me personally. Should start testing for it again though.

Kelp really is a great start to a balanced Micro approach. Good reason why pot heads have been growing with kelp for a long time. It's effective.

 

[jidoka]

with 200 ppm nitrate your plant is loaded with it. gotta convert that into protein. you need an enzyme to do it which needs Mo

 

[growingcrazy]

Do you have any thoughts on the cause of Zn values getting out of hand? My mix began at 16 ppm Zn after a few cycles it tests at 110. It concerns me. Ive been wondering what im using that contains enough Zn to cause this excess.

Can you give a full list of what amendments you are using? If you have a high P mix(and your getting it into the plant), your Zn can also be run higher. How high? Tissue sample and you shall know.

 

[growingcrazy]

with 200 ppm nitrate your plant is loaded with it. gotta convert that into protein. you need an enzyme to do it which needs Mo

What would be a visual sign that it was lacking?

Just checked my spreadsheets.

Mo is in my weekly feed solution @ .3ppm.

That equates to about a .25 soil ppm addition over an 8 week cycle just from Micropak.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[jidoka]

You just mentioned tissue samples. Test your nitrate levels. Lower is better, zero is close to possible.

foliar is an excellent way to get Mo since oxidative state could effect uptake.

Mites would be a clue.

 

[growingcrazy]

I will be doing tissue on peppers again this season. They are in a similar mix.

I still don't know of a place doing tissue analysis of Cannabis in Michigan.

Not a pest in site. I do have lady bugs though...

These plants received a couple teas with fish amino's and hit twice with a Ca foliar at the end of veg/flip. I would really like to see tissue #s.

Would you spray Mo in flower? if so, how late?

Thanks Doka...

 

[slownickel]

Mo I have used sulfates. However, kelp helps here. Micro pak and kelp seems to keep Mo up for me personally. Should start testing for it again though.

Kelp really is a great start to a balanced Micro approach. Good reason why pot heads have been growing with kelp for a long time. It's effective.

Just be real careful of the sodium in that kelp!!!

 

[redlaser]

Do you have any thoughts on the cause of Zn values getting out of hand? My mix began at 16 ppm Zn after a few cycles it tests at 110. It concerns me. Ive been wondering what im using that contains enough Zn to cause this excess.

It sounds like you need to go through your inputs, maybe test some regularly added ones. 117 sounds like a lot, but it depends on who is interpreting those numbers on tests. Spectrum says 4-11 optimum
I would also wonder if the zinc was unavailable in an earlier test somehow.

I’m guessing my zinc of 44 is from my 5-way mineral mix made of 20% SRP, 20%gypsum, 20% glacial rOck dust, 20% azomite, 20% wollastinite. Applied at 1.5-2 cups per cubic ft of soil mix

 

[jidoka]

Take out azomite, rock dust, clays, kelps, sea salt and maybe compost and worm castings. Not a single one adds enough to justify the junk it brings imo

 

[Hermen_eutics]

It sounds like you need to go through your inputs, maybe test some regularly added ones. 117 sounds like a lot, but it depends on who is interpreting those numbers on tests. Spectrum says 4-11 optimum
I would also wonder if the zinc was unavailable in an earlier test somehow.

I’m guessing my zinc of 44 is from my 5-way mineral mix made of 20% SRP, 20%gypsum, 20% glacial rOck dust, 20% azomite, 20% wollastinite. Applied at 1.5-2 cups per cubic ft of soil mix

Thanks, I have taken a look at the make-up of my amendments. There isn't anything that sticks out. I wonder if the source might be pressure treated wood. My resting soil is stored in bins beneath some 2x6s used as shelves. From time to time I take the lids off, work in some amendments and allow rain water to percolate through. The rain water drips from the pressure treated lumber into the bins.
I understand that zinc is used in the treatment process of some materials but not sure of the leaching potential.

It's raining like hell here! I've pulled the bins out from under the lumber.

 

[Hermen_eutics]

It sounds like you need to go through your inputs, maybe test some regularly added ones. 117 sounds like a lot, but it depends on who is interpreting those numbers on tests. Spectrum says 4-11 optimum
I would also wonder if the zinc was unavailable in an earlier test somehow.

I’m guessing my zinc of 44 is from my 5-way mineral mix made of 20% SRP, 20%gypsum, 20% glacial rOck dust, 20% azomite, 20% wollastinite. Applied at 1.5-2 cups per cubic ft of soil mix

Thanks, I have taken a look at the make-up of my amendments. There isn't anything that sticks out. I wonder if the source might be pressure treated wood. My resting soil is stored in bins beneath some 2x6s used as shelves. From time to time I take the lids off, work in some amendments and allow rain water to percolate through. The rain water drips from the pressure treated lumber into the bins.
I understand that zinc is used in the treatment process of some materials but not sure of the leaching potential.

It's raining like hell here! I've pulled the bins out from under the lumber.

I don't use srp, or azomite. I do use lab grade gypsum, minimal kelp, plenty of ewc, granulated bone meal, Biomin CA powder, fulvic, ferti nitro, scoria, rice hulls, magnesium and copper sulfate and an occasional dose of accelerate.

 

[jidoka]

Stop using accelerate...trust me, just period do it

 

[paradoxlost]

What would be a visual sign that it was lacking?

Just checked my spreadsheets.

Mo is in my weekly feed solution @ .3ppm.

That equates to about a .25 soil ppm addition over an 8 week cycle just from Micropak.

What are your thoughts on that?

Definitely add more. Hitting a Mo toxicity is virtually impossible and it helps nitrogen cycling, making you need less total N

 

[EasyGoing]

Take out azomite, rock dust, clays, kelps, sea salt and maybe compost and worm castings. Not a single one adds enough to justify the junk it brings imo

Care to elaborate? Not sure how you make a soil without clay, compost and castings? You talking pure peat with sulfates and fish? Or are you talking top dressing of those while growing?

 

[growingcrazy]

real soil.

 

[led05]

I haven't specifically added any, nor tested for it in this soil bed. What are your thoughts?

Micropak has Mo I believe...I am still using that as a micro base for my foliars and teas until it is gone.

Also wanted to note since Easy mentioned the low pH. The last bump in K this round will come from Ksil. K, Si and a slight pH increase.

Spectrum is running Si, Ill post the number when I get it.

as you increase your PH, your Mo will be more easily absorbed.... Your N ppm should then come down too... not sure there's any Mo issue to begin with though, is there?

I'm pretty sure PH Up is nothing more than Potassium Carbonate and Potassium Silicate

Alfalfa & Kelp are both good sources of Mo - Thorvin Kelp is good stuff

 

[growingcrazy]

as you increase your PH, your Mo will be more easily absorbed.... Your N ppm should then come down too... not sure there's any Mo issue to begin with though, is there?

I'm pretty sure PH Up is nothing more than Potassium Carbonate and Potassium Silicate

Alfalfa & Kelp are both good sources of Mo - Thorvin Kelp is good stuff

I don't see anything that I could describe as a Mo deficiency.

Alfalfa and kelp both go into teas at the onset of flowering, very small amounts though.

Just watering from here on out and bumping K up to ~6.5.

One thing I find interesting about that N number is that out of 14 strains only 1 pheno of Sunshine daydream even has a hint of clawing. That only was visible on a few fan leaves, during that stage of growth...new growth since has been right back on track.

I take that as a large amount of N from the bone meal became available and at the same time I watered in a solution with 100 ppm N. Bad timing on my part, stellar growth on all of plants that handled it without incident... I like a nice dose of fish right after re-amend or topdress.

 

[led05]

I have don't see anything that I could describe as a Mo deficiency.

Alfalfa and kelp both go into teas at the onset of flowering, very small amounts though.

Just watering from here on out and bumping K up to ~6.5.

One thing I find interesting about that N number is that out of 14 strains only 1 pheno of Sunshine daydream even has a hint of clawing. That only was visible on a few fan leaves, during that stage of growth...new growth since has been right back on track.

I take that as a large amount of N from the bone meal became available and at the same time I watered in a solution with 100 ppm N. Bad timing on my part, stellar growth on all of plants that handled it without incident... I like a nice dose of fish right after re-amend or topdress.

I think the N is less about what your seeing in the leaves and more about quality & flavor at the end.... The lower the N # at the end, the better the overall quality, taste, terpene profile etc.

My leaves tend to look borderline deficient in N for most of flower but this is done by purpose, by the end there's none left and the leaves show this clearly or have simply fallen off, less trimming

 

[growingcrazy]

That is my normal mindset as far as N goes. I will be curious to see the test results after harvest.

Do you see a direct correlation between senescence and soil N levels?

I have had plants cannibalize quickly at the end of flower with N over 110ppm, I have also had others that stay near perfect green in soils under 50 ppm N. More at work than just the soil N number.

If a soil has a Ca:N ratio of 100 to 1, Whichever element gets onto the on-ramp first dictates your end results...

Any of you see tissue numbers that don't correlate to the soil N numbers? What gives? Is this really an Mo driven result?