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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

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orechron

Member
I started this grow with my P levels over 1000ppm. I have also been doing a microbial multiplication tea every 7 days to keep the soil alive. I also have been using Mykos wettable powder to keep my Mycorrhizal population alive with those high P levels.

You can likely stop buying amf inoculants at that point. Those organisms exist in nature to help plants scavenge Phosphorus from low P soils. For example if you pull a sample from the mountains in the northern cascades you'll see 10ppm elemental P. Having amf infection and increased P uptake is a huge advantage in those soil conditions. The P availability comes at a price and the plant has to pay sugar to the fungus. In 1000ppm P soil the plants won't pay that price because the Phosphorus is more available and they can use that sugar for their own needs. The fungus will still try and infect the plant roots, but I remember reading studies showing that plants will shut them out. The same thing happens to rhizobium bacteria in high N soils.

It all leads back to Peppers with me: doesn't it....

I wish more would add one or a few Xtra Hot Peppers in their grows each cycle. Here's why

1) - They are Ca hogs, even more than Canna, they also show you much earlier, quicker & easier to tell when deficient, like immediately. They are much more finicky to grow and would be / are your Canary

2) - Most time I see people struggling with growing Canna it's because they NEED it to work out, for whatever reason, generally financial... This need, stress, pressure causes most people to make mistakes and then chase those mistakes.

Adding a pepper or two you don't care nearly as much for will teach you a shit ton about over watering, under fertilizing or over fertilizing etc and you'll likely find that pepper plant you're caring less for is doing much better, even though a more finicky plant to grow....

Then the lightbulb will go off and you'll know for sure, the biggest variable, hurdle & obstacle is we, the grower :)

give it a try - seeing deficiencies in more than one species is also a huge value in identification

I'm going t throw a pepper in my next indoor round just for you, but I know it will quickly be over grown in the grid and its going to be hard for me to sacrifice even 1 square foot. Cool idea.
 

EasyGoing

Member
What I was trying to point out is the paradigm Age Old (and most all bottle companies use). Their Grow formula is 12-6-6 then their flower goes to 5-10-5.

If you were following that feed schedule and trying to keep your EC as high as you are you would quickly run into big problems caused by high nitrates...weak plants full of water.

By keeping the balance right from the start you are able to avoid this problem. The balance is what allows you to run the higher EC.

Look at the coco forums for the best example. You hear constant talk about low ECs... say 1-1.2. The reason they are so low is the fucked up balance they use. Mostly high N and K.

If they push that EC they get lockouts in the soil and plants that are bug magnets. By changing that balance I can push EC to at least 2.7

anyways....I am no fan of the age old micros so I don't use the product. I was just trying to point out that really high N and K vs P that most use.

How far have you pushed the ec in soil? I have one plant right now I am testing the limits on. Never gets lower than 1.2ec and maxes out at 1.7. Looks burnt though. I have been doubling the top dressing for an experiment.
 

jidoka

Active member
I use heavy volcanic soil outdoors with a LOS approach vs the Slow method. EC stays between 0.3-0.7. I am not the guy to ask about that one

My actual media ec in coco runs about 1.3
 

jidoka

Active member
C23C024F-B927-4E3A-9FBF-7C5E269F55D1.jpg
 

led05

Chasing The Present
You can likely stop buying amf inoculants at that point. Those organisms exist in nature to help plants scavenge Phosphorus from low P soils. For example if you pull a sample from the mountains in the northern cascades you'll see 10ppm elemental P. Having amf infection and increased P uptake is a huge advantage in those soil conditions. The P availability comes at a price and the plant has to pay sugar to the fungus. In 1000ppm P soil the plants won't pay that price because the Phosphorus is more available and they can use that sugar for their own needs. The fungus will still try and infect the plant roots, but I remember reading studies showing that plants will shut them out. The same thing happens to rhizobium bacteria in high N soils.



I'm going t throw a pepper in my next indoor round just for you, but I know it will quickly be over grown in the grid and its going to be hard for me to sacrifice even 1 square foot. Cool idea.

I'm selfish in my mind like most and assume most have space to spare and run whatever they want BC I do.... Thanks for the reply, it's a good grounding perspective...

I bet it does benefit you though, mostly the first month from seed emergence
 

led05

Chasing The Present
Might buy a farm here that is on a volcanic butte. Thought it would be rich in minerals for sure. Thanks for the response.

dig 20 holes for each acre at least (send away, mix as u wish to spend), spaced accordingly and deep.... BF u BUY
 

led05

Chasing The Present
I never find that N is a constant. I put N into a category by itself. Feeding N only to keep a desired visual leaf appearance... Just enough to keep ahead of any yellowing but not dark green.

Everything else in in balance with micros included. I don't like to top-dress N at all after flower has begun. Liquids take over for the next couple weeks.

Led, Are you making a new mix for each container you run? No recycled soil for the Cannabis?

Is Germany on vacation this month?

everything is recycled..... say a yard for in... 1/4th scooped out back, 1/4th peat mix, 1/4th verm & or perl, rest blend of whatever & amendments... those amendments go out back, come back in, out back, back in..... it's the only thing that's really new aside from perlite & vermiculite - I have a peat mound that's now as much castings as peat and or compost that is my peat source...

Feb, June, Sept & Dec I guess are off in the old countries these days, even Deutsche - Ridic.... Amazon spoiled
 

EasyGoing

Member
When I bought the meter, those lame Germans were on "holiday" for weeks. Took forever to get the meter, and the dude selling it only sent one. I had bought SlowN one for his travels, but I guess in Germany, they have no desire to rush, or sell you your entire order. Sorry, great meter but super lame company.
 

EasyGoing

Member
what type of scope are you using, what do you see dancing, please do tell - curious ?

Having a hard time finding my exact scope for you. However it's just a desktop model you would find in any highschool science class. It is 40 -1000x and it cost about 250$.

As for what I am hunting....... This might make slowN cringe......

I have a book that helps me identify bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes. The book name is Adding Biology For Soil and Hydroponics Systems by Elaine R. Ingham, phd and Carole Ann Rollins, PH.d. I also bought the poster pictured below, and they even signed my book. Bought the book maybe as much as 10 years ago at a max yield hydro show in San Francisco. However the book teaches you to recognize beneficial aerobic microorganisms, and anaerobic microorganisms. It even helps identify mycorrhizal fungi under the scope.


This is why I have a hard time when people tell me I killed my micro heard. Cause I can literally scope it, and I can ID beneficial microorganisms. Same goes with High P kills micros. It may, but with my high Ca, highly aerated soil, I think higher P levels can be obtained without killing the micro heard. In fact, I have been scoping my soil this entire run, and my ppm's of P started out over 1000 ppm, and the soil dances like a Los Vegas night club. :tiphat:




picture.php
 

slownickel

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Good old Elaine... as you are seeing, good fertilization has little to do with microbiology.

I would add that getting myco's into the root early is not so much for maximizing P uptake as it is to protect the root from bad microbiology.
 

jidoka

Active member
You can grow peppers in the veg area. If you have a problem it shows up quickly. Plus it is easier to get tissue/sap analysis. You can mail the leaf

I am with led on that one 100%
 

Arnold.

Active member
That was a nice discussion, didn't see a lot of numbers on the feed mixes before.

What do you all reckon is 'balanced micro's? Is everyone's take the same?

I'll take a guess, for a well balanced soil, numbers per element not in sulfate or other form.

0.100% Si
0.100% Mn
0.080% Fe
0.030% Zn
0.010% Cu
0.006% B

and no idea about Al and Mo.

Would I be messing up? :D
 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
Veteran
picture.php


End of week 4 flower. Funny that a few posts ago I mentioned keeping N low... That is what happens you put on a shit load of bone meal.

Ca 82.37 Mg 10.35 K 5.793 Na 1.487

Concerns, criticism, thoughts?
 

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
View Image

End of week 4 flower. Funny that a few posts ago I mentioned keeping N low... That is what happens you put on a shit load of bone meal.

Ca 82.37 Mg 10.35 K 5.793 Na 1.487

Concerns, criticism, thoughts?

The iron and zinc are higher than you want is my first impression, mine are half that and still too much
 
The iron and zinc are higher than you want is my first impression, mine are half that and still too much

Do you have any thoughts on the cause of Zn values getting out of hand? My mix began at 16 ppm Zn after a few cycles it tests at 110. It concerns me. Ive been wondering what im using that contains enough Zn to cause this excess.
 

EasyGoing

Member
View Image

End of week 4 flower. Funny that a few posts ago I mentioned keeping N low... That is what happens you put on a shit load of bone meal.

Ca 82.37 Mg 10.35 K 5.793 Na 1.487

Concerns, criticism, thoughts?

Looks pretty darn money!

Lower that Fe, raise the MN a bit. Zn looks high, but nothing a balanced soil can't handle. Would love to know what the Si levels are? N cycle usually last 6 weeks, you are on week four of flower, I actually think your N is right on track. Got a little gypsum with the sample also.......

One thing that concerns me, is the ph? What's up with a ph of 6? Especially with all the bone meal you added?
 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
Veteran
All of those numbers are near what I was aiming for... Zn came out 20ppm higher than planned but still in my range... I shot for 125 on Mn and only hit the 99. That B would scare some...unless you put it there.

I wish I could lower that Fe number...Not that easy. I have an amendment somewhere that is bumping that Fe...still haven't found it. Unless the drop in pH released the additional Fe over the last tests numbers? Still working on Fe. Right now it isn't a problem since this mix is fairly balanced.

The S is real(not just a handful). 1 lb per cuft of gypsum + SOP = High S. It just means that this soil will continue to drop in pH until the S is reasonable(long time), until then I will keep liming to bring pH up and add Ca before the next round. I will probably bump it to 7.2-7.3 for the next plants to go in...

I forgot to have Spectrum run Si numbers...going to give them a call.

These plants are cranking.

EC meter reads 1.68
 
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