Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[jidoka]

But it gets way weirder in CO coco grows. You may get the Na out of that shit but good luck on getting the Cl out. Cl blocks P uptake...so 1:1 p:k ain't gonna get it

 

[jidoka]

Btw...if you start veg with high k you ain't ever getting Ca right. Ca and P...you cannot catch up on them ever. They got to go first

 

[jidoka]

So down the rabbit hole

JRPeters makes a traditional hydr/coco formula. 5-12-26. Then you chuck enough cano3 to satisfy n...but it is your only source of Ca. So no surprise here. Lack of Ca and P.

But talk to big gh guys and they tell you...never seen a ca def. but at the same time they use a bunch of mg and fe. The plants stay green that way, but far from healthy

 

[slownickel]

Just visited a large indoor op in SCal. Gave them some of Greenhands best. The guy wrote to me this morning after trying the Mendo Breath that he got too high... LMAO.

Way to go brother GH13!

 

[jidoka]

Anyways some fooking about and I am at 5:1 ca:k and about 2:1 p:k. K is still to high in the sap and ca too low. And P defs still exist.

Far better, veg time cut by a quarter and less ipm.

But not right

 

[jidoka]

So I figure 10:1 ca:k. Can't get ca up anymore so I cut K in half. That also cut P in half but the 2:1 p:k ratio remains.

Sap ca went up 5x. K sap actually increased about double but ca is now higher than k. P def went away

I am not smart enough to sort that yet. But there has to be a lesson. Lots more work to go

 

[plantingplants]

PP,

Your situation to this day is difficult to understand. And yes, without enough micros, P uptake is tough.

Your light situation as well as your water quality are huge factors that are difficult to quantity in terms of the cause and effect on your grow. Most especially your light.

What makes Cali great is the light.

I have noticed several times driving north how many hundreds of acres, growers are planting their citrus trees using a method of planting the trees on an angle not up and down, then tying the tree down to maximize the southern exposure.

Doesn't explain why you aren't getting the P uptake. Was the P acid your only source? If so, the Ca and other goodies in the water may have locked up that P before it came out the pipe!

Did you ever send in a leaf analysis to Logan?

Tried bone, chicken, and mkp but mostly yea p acid. I guess it would all turn into calcium phosphate right? I never fully neutralized all the alkalinity. Or does ca + p bonding depend on pH?

I dried leaf samples, was about to send them, then realized they were undoubtedly contaminated with a fine dust of native clay (they get dusted all summer) which the sampling procedure warned against. Never got back to it.

 

[growingcrazy]

Btw...if you start veg with high k you ain't ever getting Ca right. Ca and P...you cannot catch up on them ever. They got to go first

Three piles of soil going at all times... 1 in veg, 1 in flower and 1 recouping... gypsum, irrigation, re-amend and mulched... 2 months wait.

 

[growingcrazy]

Tried bone, chicken, and mkp but mostly yea p acid. I guess it would all turn into calcium phosphate right? I never fully neutralized all the alkalinity. Or does ca + p binding depend on pH?

I dried leaf samples, was about to send them, then realized they were undoubtedly contaminated with a fine dust of native clay (they get dusted all summer) which the sampling procedure warned against. Never got back to it.

Dissect one of your pots so we can see how far (or not) your roots traveled.

Lack of full irrigation kills biology, no Mg foliar and too high irrigation pH.

Four ways to not get P into a plant...

 

[EasyGoing]

I didn't add Mg all year. Can't wait to take some soil samples. Just harvested a couple plants that did quite well. I dumped so many nutes on this year I am afraid to see the final PPM's in my soil.

Just when I am figuring this stuff out, my county is banning outdoor growing...... Gotta love government.

 

[Limeygreen]

If you're foliar applying mg, you simply don't have a good soil balance especially if you're trying to get P into the plant. Foliar applications are bandaids and symptom of not have good soil balance and water balance.

 

[hyposomniac]

Btw...if you start veg with high k you ain't ever getting Ca right. Ca and P...you cannot catch up on them ever. They got to go first

Ive read this sentiment several times in this thread.. So if we're getting clones that are low Ca, or from a low Ca mother.. Are we fooked?

 

[EasyGoing]

Jidoka, you still liking the 1 cup gyp, 1 cup vagisil, to a bag of Black gold?

Was thinking I might mess around with bone meal, gyp and vagisil.

 

[jidoka]

Ive read this sentiment several times in this thread.. So if we're getting clones that are low Ca, or from a low Ca mother.. Are we fooked?

I might have been a bit hyperbolic there. The plants I am running now were cloned from moms with some ca and p probs

But epigenetics is real. So I intend to start working on moms soon. And I fully expect it to make a difference

 

[jidoka]

Jidoka, you still liking the 1 cup gyp, 1 cup vagisil, to a bag of Black gold?

Was thinking I might mess around with bone meal, gyp and vagisil.

That mix will be low on P (I was a slow learner). I will be testing srp and super triple in place of vansil this winter

 

[growingcrazy]

If you're foliar applying mg, you simply don't have a good soil balance especially if you're trying to get P into the plant. Foliar applications are bandaids and symptom of not have good soil balance and water balance.

Exactly... Of my plants outside, some received lime and others got dolomite, the plants that got the extra Mg from the dolo are doing much better.

As far as high Ca moms... I can confirm quicker rooting and growth from the cuts... I started to take cuttings from plants that have had high Ca from the start and am now on the 3rd or 4th generation. Each generation produces above the last.

 

[EasyGoing]

Anybody out there a seed breeder?

Had some spare time so I built a seed harvester........SOOOOOO much time saved. Why did I not spend the 150$ and 2hours years go........

Just harvest some lavender, lemon balm and some other flowers. Next years companion planting is all set. No cost for seeds next year, too cool.

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

That mix will be low on P (I was a slow learner). I will be testing srp and super triple in place of vansil this winter

What about 1 cup SRP, 1 cup gypsum, 1 cup vansil?

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

Anybody out there a seed breeder?

Had some spare time so I built a seed harvester........SOOOOOO much time saved. Why did I not spend the 150$ and 2hours years go........

can you talk about your harvester a lil more?

 

[EasyGoing]

can you talk about your harvester a lil more?

I copied this guy to a T, except the rolling cart part. Just eye balled everything, and it works like a dream. I might take a video of it doing it's thing on cannabis one of these days, but I am trying to relax before the harvest hits. Been a rough year.

https://youtu.be/9OZDGQ6oxhk


I spent about 150$ for everything, (not including shop vac) and I could of halfed that. I bought all pre primed wood. If I had more time, just doug fir primed and painted would have been very cheap. Most expensive part is the plastic, which was about 60$.