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San Diego Finest Cuts #3
- Thread starter DoobieDuck
- Start date
DRM Ranch
Member
LMFAO
I was thinking someone found a way to get a head start on IPM other than;
Rinse seeds in a mixture of 9 parts by volume distilled water to 1 part by volume scent free bleach containing only 5% sodium hypochlorite.
Rinse in water, then...
Use 1oz/pint of 3-percent hydrogen peroxide in distilled water as a quick rinse or soak up to 24 hours.
Rinse again in distilled water then plant.
No cooties should survive this.
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Correction. As long as you don't smoke the plants from those seeds you'll be fine. That's how systemic and dangerous Myclobutanil really is. It has been found present in detectable levels in the progeny and not just the seeds
FTR- I'm not trying to call anyone out. I myself have used Myclobutanil on seed laded plants (and mothers) before I understood the danger.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT !! When its heated it converted to Hydrogen Cyanide..
https://learn.woahstork.com/grow-ca...nic-fungicides-like-myclobutanil-in-cannabis/
Trying to find info on Oxidate 2.0. It's a mix of Hydrogen Dioxide, Peroxyacetic Acid, Acetic Acid. Avoid heat and sunlight.. Would like to find info on this before I use it again.
https://learn.woahstork.com/grow-ca...nic-fungicides-like-myclobutanil-in-cannabis/
Trying to find info on Oxidate 2.0. It's a mix of Hydrogen Dioxide, Peroxyacetic Acid, Acetic Acid. Avoid heat and sunlight.. Would like to find info on this before I use it again.
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Tardigrade
Active member
Indeed. I've read the articles. Nobody should use it.
Let's not forget though, most of us have been smoking flowers tainted with it for decades - without apparent effects.
I do know a couple guys who recently purchased industrial quantities of trim for their new extraction endeavors...without testing it first. This presents a significant moral hazard problem...they've invested a lot into... poison...take the loss, or pass it on? Mandatory testing starts to make more sense.
Let's not forget though, most of us have been smoking flowers tainted with it for decades - without apparent effects.
I do know a couple guys who recently purchased industrial quantities of trim for their new extraction endeavors...without testing it first. This presents a significant moral hazard problem...they've invested a lot into... poison...take the loss, or pass it on? Mandatory testing starts to make more sense.
DRM Ranch
Member
I think we need to understand our poisons,
The quantity of myclobutanil in a seed is never going to exceed 5% which in my opinion is a huge estimate but lets go with it. One seed has a weight of 0.12g × 0.05 = 0.0006g of myclobutanil, if that converted to hydrogen cyanide completely which it can not, it is well under the 0.01g needed to kill via inhalation by several orders. One would need to smoke the product of 6 plants in very short order to get a lethal dose.
I assume for realities sake that the plant is not going to concentrate this chemical in only the buds, but even if it did the above is true considering the LD50 for humans is 100ppm.
I will not make any particular claims when it comes to concentrates, however the total quantity of the chemical in one seed is as I stated above, well below the LD50 rate for a 100lb person.
For the record, many foods we consume on a regular basis contain cyanide like almonds to name just one.
I don't feel comfortable putting patience health at risk. There's no reason to use Myclobutanil. We all take in really bad shit daily. If you know your smoking Hydrogen Cyanide would u continue to do so or pass it on to people you care for. Regardless of what any MSDS data is. I will always find a better way that doesn't include using something we know is harmful.
Tardigrade
Active member
I wish every member on this board would put in as much thought into their conclusions, and as much effort into their prose as you do. You rule.
Not trying to dig on anyone here or comment on your statements, just saying your posts stand out, and I do appreciate you putting in the effort. And you have a load of posts too.
It's just common sense to me. Thankfully I only need to worry about what I do..
I wanted to chime in on this topic because the issue of whether or not to treat known or suspected fungal and insects infections as well as what to treat with and most importantly, how to treat, has been occupying me for the last 2-3 weeks. I posted some pics of plants that showed some worrisome changes a couple of days ago. I wanted to give a little background and then discuss what I think happened, fwiw.
In August, a generous IC member gave me a gift of some fresh, unrooted cuts of some nice strains. Shortly after I put them in rockwool cubes and under a dome, two of the OGKB 2.0 cuts damped off.
I was worried I'd get a full fail if I didn't act. It had taken me a long time to find someone willing to trust me enough to share his strains so I didn't want to have them all die off within days of getting them. I sprayed with a mix of Eagle 20 and Promis (a nicotine-based systemic insecticide/miticide). No other plants withered or looked off after that.
When the cubes were ready to go into solo cups, I decided to be proactive and I soaked the coco they would transfer into with the Promis/E-20 mixture. Pause, to let the laughter stop.
Two of the strains showed no issues with that approach however. the OGKB's did not like the effect. In my naivete, I presumed that the stall of the 2.0's was due to persistent pythium or whatever fungus caused the 2 plants to damp off.
The other strains grew ok and rooted pretty well in their cups. right about the time I was going to transfer them from cups to 1G pots, the donor, not a contributor on this thread fwiw, passed on that he had a russet mite infestation and had inadvertently passed it on to a couple of other recipients of cuts of his. This was several weeks after I got cuts from him. But, there were quite a few messages from other growers, totally unrelated to that growers stock, saying they had mite problems.
I only have this one spot to grow in so I worried it could get badly compromised and force a complete stoppage of growing for me. So, I decided to soak the coco with the E-20 and Promis again for the up potting. I also did an Avid foliar spray. Initially, things did fine. Then I started to notice some leaf crinkling and some red stemming. Then I started to get those brown patches on the leaves.
I took the leaves into work and used a lab type microscope to inspect them. no visible signs of any bugs. After a few messages with SDF folk and with the donor, I've come to the conclusion that I am the pathogen in this event. A toxic combination of ignorance, noobish exuberance and a lack of observational and logic skills can damage as much if not more than bugs.
I've since repotted those plants and we'll see how they do.
What's the point of this mea culpa wall of words? Well, beyond the obvious "don't do as I have done", I wanted to comment on the issues discussed above by Hammer, DRM, GT and the others.
For myself, I had no intention of flowering any plant I treated. I plan to grow them up to mother status and then clone off cuts to veg and flower. Rather than risk losing not just a crop but taking my only grow space out of use for several months of cleaning and quarantine, I chose to try the aggressive treatment approach. I have not previously used any other antimicrobial treatments save for an initial spray with Promis on my purchased clones that I grew back in February.
I did not want to treat these current plants, but hearing what was happening to others and knowing my source had Russets, I opted to, as GT says, go nuclear.
I would probably make the same choice now but would obviously not do a coco soak. Just a foliar and soil spray.
I do have concerns about what I use for these plants because the only users are my family and their close friends. I figured at worst, I would veg the plants for 4-8 weeks, then take cuts, veg those for 8-10 weeks then 9-10 weeks of flower. That's about 5 months after treatment. I do want to do a test for residual agents once harvested, just for personal science.
Any how, I can summarize i guess: don't use eagle 20 and promis as a soil treatment, try the insecticidal soap soak Terpene has referenced and think hard before the use of nuclear weapons
We all have used products we thought where OK at some point. IMO the right thing would be to stop using products once u find out there not safe to use. Do some research on products before u use them. We tend to forget what happens to those chems when its Heated/smoked. Finding ways to keep insects at bay without using products is what we all want. I can remember times when I had moving soil from seriously bad infestations of gnats. I used many products I would never use today. Once I learned how to prevent them form laying eggs I don't need to use anything anymore.
If u take in cuts from ANYONE!. U MUST! assume they have PESTS/MOLDS. They have to be treated multiple times. A simple wash is not enough. Doing it when received will keep ur grow clean and humming
. I stay away from systemics. Contact killers work fine. Once ur 100% sure there clean u shouldn't need to treat again. Having a IPM in place is mandatory imo.. I don't treat my plants with anything!!!. I treat my veg room all the time since pest can get in there at anytime. I treat the area outside my veg room all the time. Flyers are my worst enemy. I hate it when I find fly's or moths in there. I only use a sulfur burner in my flower room every 90 days since its not sealed. No plants older then 4 weeks are left in when burning. This has worked well for me for years .
Outdoor gardening is way different. I refer to those guys for best practices used here.
If u take in cuts from ANYONE!. U MUST! assume they have PESTS/MOLDS. They have to be treated multiple times. A simple wash is not enough. Doing it when received will keep ur grow clean and humming
. I stay away from systemics. Contact killers work fine. Once ur 100% sure there clean u shouldn't need to treat again. Having a IPM in place is mandatory imo.. I don't treat my plants with anything!!!. I treat my veg room all the time since pest can get in there at anytime. I treat the area outside my veg room all the time. Flyers are my worst enemy. I hate it when I find fly's or moths in there. I only use a sulfur burner in my flower room every 90 days since its not sealed. No plants older then 4 weeks are left in when burning. This has worked well for me for years . Outdoor gardening is way different. I refer to those guys for best practices used here.
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We all have used products we thought where OK at some point. IMO the right thing would be to stop using products once u find out there not safe to use. Do some research on products before u use them. We tend to forget what happens to those chems when its Heated/smoked. Finding ways to keep insects at bay without using products is what we all want. I can remember times when I had moving soil from seriously bad infestations of gnats. I used many products I would never use today. Once I learned how to prevent them form laying eggs I don't need to use anything anymore.
If u take in cuts from ANYONE!. U MUST! assume they have PESTS/MOLDS. They have to be treated multiple times. A simple wash is not enough. Doing it when received will keep ur grow clean and humming
Outdoor gardening is way different. I refer to those guys for best practices used here.
Definitely words for me to heed. After reading the reference by Terpene on the long term soak with the insecticidal soaps having 95% efficacy for insect eradication, I will take that as my first step for any new arrivals.
I am not in a perpetual so I plan to treat with sulfur in about two weeks. I don't have any plants near maturity. Everyone else is out of town for a couple of weeks so I can do a complete strip and wash of the tent, the veg closet, all the assorted reservoirs, plumbing, etc., etc. and then treat the entire room with sulfur burner.
The awkward thing for me is that, in hind site, the donated plants probably were clean of mites. I just felt I had to act and fast. If I didn't and there were mites, it could go south fast. When I look at things through the retrospectoscope, it is usually much clearer than real time.
I learn a lot here but still manage to use the hard way unfortunately
When I say I don't practice IPM it's because my understanding of what that really means incorporates ALL of the following criteria ( The following is a cut and paste from the IPM Institute of North America. Youll find varying definitions but they all hover pretty close to this-)
Agricultural IPM includes:
Soil Preparation: Growers give their plants a head start on pest problems by choosing the proper site, testing the soil, rotating crops, creating raised beds where necessary, and providing sufficient organic matter.
Planting: Growers plant crops that tolerate common problems, altering planting time and spacing to discourage certain diseases and insects.
Forecasting: Weather data are consulted to predict if and when pest outbreaks will occur. Treatments can then be properly timed, preventing crop damage and saving sprays.
Pest Trapping: Traps that are attractive to insects are used so that growers can pinpoint when the pest has arrived and decide whether control is justified.
Monitoring: Growers inspect representative areas of the fields regularly to determine whether pests are approaching a damaging level.
Thresholds: Before treating, growers wait until pest populations reach a scientifically determined level that could cause economic damage. Until that threshold is reached, the cost of yield and quality loss will be less than the cost for control.
Cultural Controls: The pest’s environment it then disrupted by turning under crop residues, sterilizing greenhouse tools, and harvesting early.
Biological Controls: It is necessary for growers to conserve the many beneficial natural enemies already at work. They import and use additional biologicals where effective.
Chemical Controls: Growers select the most effective and appropriate pesticide and properly calibrate sprayers. They then verify that weather conditions will permit good coverage without undue drift.
Recordkeeping: Records of pest traps, weather and treatment are kept for use in pest management decisions.
Agricultural IPM includes:
Soil Preparation: Growers give their plants a head start on pest problems by choosing the proper site, testing the soil, rotating crops, creating raised beds where necessary, and providing sufficient organic matter.
Planting: Growers plant crops that tolerate common problems, altering planting time and spacing to discourage certain diseases and insects.
Forecasting: Weather data are consulted to predict if and when pest outbreaks will occur. Treatments can then be properly timed, preventing crop damage and saving sprays.
Pest Trapping: Traps that are attractive to insects are used so that growers can pinpoint when the pest has arrived and decide whether control is justified.
Monitoring: Growers inspect representative areas of the fields regularly to determine whether pests are approaching a damaging level.
Thresholds: Before treating, growers wait until pest populations reach a scientifically determined level that could cause economic damage. Until that threshold is reached, the cost of yield and quality loss will be less than the cost for control.
Cultural Controls: The pest’s environment it then disrupted by turning under crop residues, sterilizing greenhouse tools, and harvesting early.
Biological Controls: It is necessary for growers to conserve the many beneficial natural enemies already at work. They import and use additional biologicals where effective.
Chemical Controls: Growers select the most effective and appropriate pesticide and properly calibrate sprayers. They then verify that weather conditions will permit good coverage without undue drift.
Recordkeeping: Records of pest traps, weather and treatment are kept for use in pest management decisions.
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JoeGrower619
New member
When I've had problems in the past I used mighty wash I haven't had any problems in a while but is mighty wash safe I've only used it in veg or the first 2 weeks of flower when I did use it. It says it's mostly water and it works so. It would be cool to know if it's safe so if I run into problems again I can use it.
DRM Ranch
Member
Mighty wash is what?
Active Ingredients:
Water ….. 99.8335%
Other Ingredients ….. 0.1665% <--- what is this
For what it's worth pyrethrins work at something like 0.5% and lower
I thought I remembered seeing this a while back but wanted to see/read it again.
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msds says proprietary formula.
i've always suspected some kind of contact miticide, mostly pyrethrins based on how it acts similar to other pyrethrins ive used.
it test at around 600ppm and has some kind of oil in it if you let water evaporate...thats all ive come across.
i've always suspected some kind of contact miticide, mostly pyrethrins based on how it acts similar to other pyrethrins ive used.
it test at around 600ppm and has some kind of oil in it if you let water evaporate...thats all ive come across.
