San Diego Finest Cuts #3

[DRM Ranch]

DRM....not 70's, more like 90-100 f. As the cool kids would say, "hot AF"

Yeah, that is hot as fuck, and then some...the egg will have hatched in 2-3 days easily in that temp range, and any modest humidity level.

My worry would be more the speed at which they mature at that temperature, typically its around 5 days. At elevated temps they have faster metabolism, I'm not sure what their upper limits are.

At your temps it might be prudent to go with a 5 day rotation on your IPM applications.

One thing for sure, CO2 at those temps will work fast at killing anything that needs O2 to live.

 

[Grow Tech]

I've got some predators on the way. After scoping every one of my plants over the last couple days, I only found these eggs and a few throughly toast adults...all on cuts from the same plant. After scoping I moved the plants (except the strain that had these eggs/fried adults) to a new nursery setup.

 

[Terpene]

Hey Terpene, I see you run mainly sativas in your indoor setup. Just curious if these are some hybrids or strictly sativa and what your average flower time is? Thanks

I run anything and everything (though mostly landrace sativa hybrids) under LEDs at 11/13 with an average flower time of 12-15 weeks. On the extreme side, I expect about 18-22 weeks for pure hazes and 17-19 weeks for most long-flowering pure landraces. For indicas, the 11/13 cycle tends to shave about 5 days off from 12/12 flowering schedules.

 

[DRM Ranch]

Hey Terpene, have you thought about taking a shot at any of the SSH × (MAU × ETH)?

Just curious

 

[Terpene]

I literally had an out loud debate with myself about whether it was going to be the P'91 selection of Jacket F2s (Destroyer x Princess Diesel x P'91) or your Super Silver Haze x Mauritius-Ethiopian beans.

I went P'91 leaning Jacket F2s, but yours are next.

 

[DoomsDay]

I've also been failing to keep y'all updated on terps sativas as they are setting under the hps. The zamal plant has started to brown out on all branches and I'm fearing the stress from the move didn't treat her too well. Both slurm are doing amazing and showing that they've turned around from the stress and have continued stacking. I think today may be the last of the days of this zamal as it looks worse and worse by the day and is occupying quite a bit of space under the lights.

 

[resin_lung]

@gt- I saw your post but I gotta admit that I was nervous to reply!lol when in doubt I always err on the side caution, besides, I had a gut feeling that someone with a better understanding would be along soon to offer some advice and then... BAM!

@DRM- great stuff man. Much appreciated. We use to crank the c02 way way up every couple of weeks. I don't exactly remember the level but it took a few tall tanks. Maybe 4 per, but it always did the trick. I can honestly say that in the 9-10 years we were at it, we never had a single problem with bugs and we never used avid or anything else. Not that im aware of anyway. Of course zero plants came in from outside that one crew. Great info.

But more importantly......HOW GOOD ARE MY INSTINCTS!lol Always trust your gut I was told!!!haha or is this just a great thread filled with great growers?

Correct! It's my instincts!haha

It's funny though.... being really strict about bugs has givin me many a successful harvest but not the best understanding of all the little things that make it so important for ME to be so strict!LOL It's actually got me feeling quite ignorant!haha Got me feeling like opening up a fkn book!

THANKS BUDDY!lol

On a side note- Filling whole 20 light houses with odorless gas to that high a level can be a little nerve racking.haha Checking all the closets for the 1 in a billion chance that someone was taking a nap in it.haha we were such a rag tag group of half baked outlaws!haha

Might sound crazy, I know, but someday (and I'm getting closer) I'll tell some tales that'll make it seem not only completely plausible but probable!!haha it really is a complete miracle that.............

On a side side note- I USE "hahaha" and "lol" a fkn lot! Makes me wonder if you guys think I'm sitting at a keyboard laughing like complete loon?

Cause I am!hahaha

 

[DRM Ranch]

Resin Lung, you are generous with your praise, I'm just glad I can contribute something of value.

 

[DRM Ranch]

Thinking out loud

Thinking out loud

I managed to induce a P and Mn deficiency in one of my SSH × (MAU × ETH) girls by adjusting the pH too high, thus locking out P and Mn.

The effect was rapid in onset and several other potential factors were eliminated as the cause.

That said, I intentionally set the pH high in an effort to cause it to ramp through a presumed to be good pH range...good idea, I obviously didn't get it right this time and should have left it well enough alone.

Additionally, I feed at a pretty low ppm and it occurs to me that total P being offered might be lower than it should be for this particular plant even though I am sure the deficiency was caused by a high pH. My reasoning here is simply based on several other plants of the same cross being treated exactly the same did not show as serious a reaction if at all.

I don't believe in doing anything simple, I tend to gravitate toward the more complex fixes, so...with pH back in check I am looking at fucking with the NPK ratio.

With the fertilizer brands I run I have the ability to mix grow formulas with their bloom and another brands supplements to effectively alter the NPK ratio however I feel it needs to be. In this case I want to nudge P a little higher.

Substrate is SS#4
Nutes are DynaGro, Botanicare Calmag+, Alaska kelp
pH that induced the P deficiency was somewhere between 7 and 8
pH where this plant does just fine at this stage in veg is 6.5 for the nutrient solution, the runoff comes out somewhere around 5.5

This lady bounced back as quickly as she showed deficiency with nothing more than adjusting the pH back to 6.5, the damaged leaves aren't going to recover but new growth and progress of damage on old growth is halted.

I'm looking at a 5-7:1 ratio of grow to bloom which will result in a small bump in P and minimal impact on N and K

I am aware that growing in SS#4 is closer to hydro than soil and adjusting the nutrient solution to a pH of 7ish is/was well outside of the accepted range for pure hydro, I had to try it and see because my runoff pH was looking to be somewhere in the 5.5 range and tends to enjoy getting a bit acidic with time...as they say in movie drag races "too early" lol.

I'm using drops to figure my pH, I know (use a meter dumb ass). I have one that I do not exactly trust right now because I let the sensor dry out, will replace that at some point when that comes to the top of my priority list.

So...anyone else care to share how you dial in strains? Your own trials and tribulations may well educate the rest of us

My own thoughts on the subject are to first mess around with pH, then NPK ratio, then work on ppm.

For the record, mixing different brands of nutrients and even certain components within a brand can result in some nutrients combining into solids that fall out of suspension if not mixed in a certain order, for example silica should be added first, if added last it will cause solids to form and fuck up the entire solution.

DRM Ranch

 

[DoomsDay]

While titration does occur when dropping in an extreme base into your solution it can be reversed with the addition of acid to the mix. I know that isn't always the best way to go about it, but if for some reason the mixing were done out of order, a splash of acid will introduce more H+ ions which in turn will change the point of titration of the substance. While this may drop your solution below the desired pH, if not drastically off, allow the solution to cycle with a aquarium pump creating some form of waterfall/cascade effect; solutions that are composed mainly of water tend to adjust toward their natural pH of 7 when exposed to the environment. Just a chem 201 reminder for those who've forgotten a bit of chemistry from the school days.

** while a good rule of thumb taught to us, the instructor also always toward to lean on the side of caution when using above stated rule due to not knowing what was actually suspended in / contaminating the water sample unless using DI H2O. While a majority of our solutions will have "contaminants" suspended in the water, im almost positive we can state it still applies to our solutions just for the sheer dilution ratios, and the fact i see it happen with my own reservoirs as they all have "waterfalls" to aid in circulation and mixing of solution.**

 

[Terpene]

I managed to induce a P and Mn deficiency in one of my SSH × (MAU × ETH) girls by adjusting the pH too high, thus locking out P and Mn.

So...anyone else care to share how you dial in strains? Your own trials and tribulations may well educate the rest of us

Between you and Doom, my head is swimming. I am completely reliant on the initial soil build / volume of soil / reading the leaves that I feel pretty useless when it comes to commenting on pH / ppm / EC figures. DankFranks soil mix is pretty bulletproof, especially if you're willing to use slightly larger containers - which sativas love anyway.

That said, I generally feed Botaincare soil bloom at pretty low dose (1/3 recommended) at every other watering till the leaves start to hook. Soil bloom's minor additional nitrogen makes for a good visual guide as to when I need to back off. When they're unhappy with my continual feedings, I switch back to straight tap water for the next watering or two. This usually starts to cut Mn out, so I like to toss a pinch of epsom salt into a sprayer for foliar treating. Past that, I may toss a little blackstrap molasses into the water as they finish off, but again, this is dependent on how they look as flowering comes to a close.

I should note all of these techniques are for the previous setup (3.5gal SIP containers) with great big plants that were a bit too big for their containers (6-7.5 feet). I am now in 1gal-6 inch pots in flower, so who knows how much feeding will be needed as the plants are like seedlings compared to what I am used to. Yay SOG from seed with multiple genetics and landraces - I do everything wrong..

 

[DRM Ranch]

Between you and Doom, my head is swimming. I am completely reliant on the initial soil build / volume of soil / reading the leaves that I feel pretty useless when it comes to commenting on pH / ppm / EC figures. DankFranks soil mix is pretty bulletproof, especially if you're willing to use slightly larger containers - which sativas love anyway.

I've used a progressively more and differently amended super soil where a new recipe is used at each transplant, this allows some measure of dialing in while still being a water and/or tea only kind of grow. Granted it isn't something you can react to all that easily as once the soil is there its there for the remainder of the grow. But each recipe can be modified for the next run.

That said, I generally feed Botaincare soil bloom at pretty low dose (1/3 recommended) at every other watering till the leaves start to hook. Soil bloom's minor additional nitrogen makes for a good visual guide as to when I need to back off. When they're unhappy with my continual feedings, I switch back to straight tap water for the next watering or two. This usually starts to cut Mn out, so I like to toss a pinch of epsom salt into a sprayer for foliar treating. Past that, I may toss a little blackstrap molasses into the water as they finish off, but again, this is dependent on how they look as flowering comes to a close.

I've noticed that leaf hooking in many sativa grows, and to a lesser extent in SSH (leaves closest to the lights usually). In the SSH, excessive N is not the cause, corrective action includes a reduction in heat and elimination of excessive airflow at the area.

I should note all of these techniques are for the previous setup (3.5gal SIP containers) with great big plants that were a bit too big for their containers (6-7.5 feet). I am now in 1gal-6 inch pots in flower, so who knows how much feeding will be needed as the plants are like seedlings compared to what I am used to. Yay SOG from seed with multiple genetics and landraces - I do everything wrong..

I really don't know, a mini multi strain sativa SOG is bold and in a realm of its own.

If the #1 container is rooted well enough but not root bound once they go into flower I imagine one concern will be keeping them from depleting the soil of moisture and nutrients on a daily basis. Maybe try to have some automated thing in mind if this becomes an issue.

The above ground plant size is going to ultimately determine how much moisture and nutrients it will need, and with only so much root mass and soil to supply the plant its needs you may need to do some top dressing with worm castings and other items to provide the plant all it wants. You can swap out top dressings for different stages, mostly bat guano for flower, less for veg, mixes abound, but you'll be able to do some dialing in any way you go.

You can always prune the plants to reduce moisture and nutrient needs, a la bonsai, if it comes to that.

DRM Ranch

 

[Singedskin]

Hey guys,

I really appreciate all the good info and sharing. Im a grower with severe crohns disease and i have been looking for a few really solid cuts. I need a really strong indicia for my nausea/lack of appetite/inflammation and i would really like to get a nice CBD strain going too. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction. I really appreciate all the help

 

[Cadfael]

EC Traveler (AKA MedTree seeds) has a wonderful cup winning CBD strain.

Good luck singedskin,

 

[Terpene]

Lesson learned - don't let the plants get taller than about 8 inches in veg, or you'll be topping them a week into flower when they hit the lights. Not exactly ideal, but as I said in the beginning, its going to take some time to get used to the smaller space. On the up shot, I am 100% female on standard M/F lines!

ZamE x MaurE about 5 days in, smells like a mix of everything thats in it. Ethio's lemons, zamaldelica's fruity tang and mauritius's lavender earth. I tossed this one in when it was about 8 inches tall, so I probably wont have to top it.

2 Panama x Honduras about a week in. The one on the left is a warmer, more pink grapefruit smell whereas the plant on the right is very astringent lemon.

3 Honduras x Orange AlienADE about a week in. All three plants have a fermenting lemons-tangeriney-chemdawg smell in varying amounts. The more "dense" the plant develops nodes, the more it leans toward GT's Orange AlienADE, but the Honduran influence makes for some stretchy plants!

GT's Kaya clone continues to love life at 3.5 weeks in, its got a smell somewhat similar to OG/production lines mixed with pakistani chitral's weird kinda spicy odor. GT - I believe you said that this was Tom Hill X-18 x Valley OG correct?
One thing is for sure, this line REALLY puts on weight!

 

[Grow Tech]

Glad she's doing good!
It's ValleyOG x X-18 (r). The X-18 is the cut Progressive Options carried. From the timing of when I got it, I tend to think it's the Reserva Pravida/DNA version. I did a little research and I feel it's a legit X-18 but didn't have the benefit of being selected from Tim Hills open pollination

 

[Grow Tech]

Public Service Announcement
Root Aphids have been found coming from plants obtained from a clone supplier north of SD. Don't be lazy with your quarantine practices if you bring in genetics. I was and I'm paying the price dearly.
I managed to beat broadmites and I'm going after these fuckers hard. Worst case, the community has my back...I've located clean copys of virtually all my work. Thank you all that have given me advice on this battle and to those that have safe guarded strains.
FWIW, the problem was NOT present at any of out get togethers

 

[Terpene]

I did a bunch of further reading after hearing from GT.

My go to response for 90% of pests that live in the root zone is bifenthrin drenches, the next 5% get permethrin and if that doesn't do it, I tend to roll towards systemics - imidacloprid being my number one choice. The only downside to imidacloprid is that it makes spider mites go nuts breeding, so nearly every time I treat a plant with imidacloprid, I also have to spray it with abamectin (Avid) to prevent what feels like the inevitable.

Apparently, Root Aphids can develop a resistance to imidacloprid, so if they remain present after treatment, you can go with acephate (Acephate 97UP is a cheap solution) or you can use the cheapest and most benign thing I can think of - Insecticidal Soap.

For those wondering, I have no experience with acephate in the pest control field, but it is commonly labeled for fire ants as "Orthene".

I think the simple answer here is that if you can get 95% control with a 2 minute root ball dunk in insecticidal soap, there's no need to introduce additional pesticides to the mix. Additionally, the waxy buildup common with root aphid infestations is dissolved with insecticidal soap whereas with pesticides, it remains.

Best article I could find on the topic, which has been summarized for brevity:

University of Maryland Cooperative Extension tried applications of bifenthrin and imidacloprid applied as a soil drench with poor results controlling root aphids.

Other pesticides like acephate or bendiocarb were also tried as soil drenches.
Other plants were dipped the rootball for 30, 60, 90 and 120 seconds in insecticidal soap.

Post-treatment pest counts were taken in a similar manner one week after the treatments were made.

Results

All of the treatments applied as soil drenches gave good control levels. Acephate applications provided the best control, with close to 100 percent mortality of root aphids. bendiocarb applications gave a fair level of control, with death occurring in 85 percent of the root aphids.

Submerging the rootballs in insecticidal soap for a 30-second duration delivered very poor control, less than 30 percent. Submerging them in insecticidal soap for a 60-seconds gave control of close to 70 percent. Submersion of the rootball for 90-120 seconds gave a 95 percent control level.

The white wax was dissolved by the insecticidal soap submersion method; the white wax is was still present with bendiocarb application as late as two weeks after application -
even after the aphids were killed.

 

[onavelzy]

I did a bunch of further reading after hearing from GT.

My go to response for 90% of pests that live in the root zone is bifenthrin drenches, the next 5% get permethrin and if that doesn't do it, I tend to roll towards systemics - imidacloprid being my number one choice. The only downside to imidacloprid is that it makes spider mites go nuts breeding, so nearly every time I treat a plant with imidacloprid, I also have to spray it with abamectin (Avid) to prevent what feels like the inevitable.

Apparently, Root Aphids can develop a resistance to imidacloprid, so if they remain present after treatment, you can go with acephate (Acephate 97UP is a cheap solution) or you can use the cheapest and most benign thing I can think of - Insecticidal Soap.

For those wondering, I have no experience with acephate in the pest control field, but it is commonly labeled for fire ants as "Orthene".

I think the simple answer here is that if you can get 95% control with a 2 minute root ball dunk in insecticidal soap, there's no need to introduce additional pesticides to the mix. Additionally, the waxy buildup common with root aphid infestations is dissolved with insecticidal soap whereas with pesticides, it remains.

Best article I could find on the topic, which has been summarized for brevity:

University of Maryland Cooperative Extension tried applications of bifenthrin and imidacloprid applied as a soil drench with poor results controlling root aphids.

Other pesticides like acephate or bendiocarb were also tried as soil drenches.
Other plants were dipped the rootball for 30, 60, 90 and 120 seconds in insecticidal soap.

Post-treatment pest counts were taken in a similar manner one week after the treatments were made.

Results

All of the treatments applied as soil drenches gave good control levels. Acephate applications provided the best control, with close to 100 percent mortality of root aphids. bendiocarb applications gave a fair level of control, with death occurring in 85 percent of the root aphids.

Submerging the rootballs in insecticidal soap for a 30-second duration delivered very poor control, less than 30 percent. Submerging them in insecticidal soap for a 60-seconds gave control of close to 70 percent. Submersion of the rootball for 90-120 seconds gave a 95 percent control level.

The white wax was dissolved by the insecticidal soap submersion method; the white wax is was still present with bendiocarb application as late as two weeks after application -
even after the aphids were killed.

That's great work Terp. Thanks for sharing the study.

If I could ask the group for an quick analysis, I've had a relatively quick change in the health of some cuts I got a few weeks ago. They came as unrooted cuts, three different strains, Arcata Trainwreck, OGKB 2.0 and Hammerhead's Firestorm. I put them in rookwool cubes and under a dome, my approach so far for rooting cuts.

Two of the 2.0's damped off within a couple of days. I had read that the source of the cuts had discovered mites in his grow. I treated the plants when I up cupped them by drenching the coco in each cup with an Eagle 20 and imidacloprid mix, as well as spraying each plant with the same.

The 2.0's did fairly poorly for a while then began to show new grown. The other two rooted like any other plant and were growing vigorously.

II recently up potted the TW and the FS to 1 g pots. I repeated the coc drench of the new pots with the Eagle 20 and imidacloprid, that was a bout 8 or 9 days ago. The plants had some unusual leaf crinkling here and there but looked vigorous over all, then I started seeing the following changes on the Firestorm leaves in the last couple of days:

Does this look like mite damage? or maybe poisoning from too much exposure to the insecticide and fungicide I used when repotting?

If mites, should I just dump it all and restart or try to remove affected leaves and treat with Avid or the soaps that Terp suggested.

Sorry for the wall of words, Any help is truly appreciated

Ona

 

[DoomsDay]

This chart should help as a general tool. As far as what's going on there, no clue so Imma sit back and wait for some knowledge to be dropped on us.