Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[greenmatter]

not here to piss in anyones punch bowl guys so please don't see me as bagging on RP or any other candidate, it should be pretty clear from posts in the past that i am really frustrated with the whole system in general, but i do have a question ........

if RP does actually win in the primary running as a republican, how much will the GOP have to do with his entire campaign after that? the last time he ran i saw an interview where they asked what/who he would want as a VP. one of the people he talked about was Dennis Kucinich. i don't know if he has even mentioned a VP so far, but i would assume asking Kucinich to be VP this time around would get the GOP very pissed off.
politics being what it is these days i wonder how things would shake out. to be honest i really doubt that Mcain picked Palin on his own ....... i imagine that when his handlers told him what was up he kind of felt like he had been kicked in the sack (just MHO)

so anywho ....... how much will the GOP have to say with RP running on their ticket? is one of the guys who is actually fighting the system (a little at least) going to find himself pulled into the mainstream sewer never to be seen again?

 

[itisme]

the last time he ran i saw an interview where they asked what/who he would want as a VP. one of the people he talked about was Dennis Kucinich. i don't know if he has even mentioned a VP so far, but i would assume asking Kucinich

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg4Gr010JYY I am guessing Gary J but ...not positive

Ron Paul says it in this clip....I guess they can back Obama if they don't want RP. VP candidate not named but he explains why.....for now.

 

[greenmatter]

johnson answered the question like a normal (someone i would drink a beer with) human being......... RP was pretty vague IMHO ..... the look on his face could have been read as "not one of the clowns on this stage".

i guess all we can really do i watch and wait, as usual.

guessing what is going to happen in politics seems a little bit like trying to come up with a psychological profile of a serial killer ........ you know that it's gonna be a fuckin' train wreck, but you can't really imagine how twisted up things will get until you actually get to sit in the same room with it for the first time

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... so anywho ....... how much will the GOP have to say with RP running on their ticket? is one of the guys who is actually fighting the system (a little at least) going to find himself pulled into the mainstream sewer never to be seen again?

He'll have more to face than media scrutiny. Crony capitalism is bigger than ever. The top 0.1% has no restrictions on how much issue (i.e. policy idea, position etc) advertising they can buy. And they don't have to disclose who they are.

I might be mistaken but I think candidate ads have no limit (but donors names are public info.)

The anonymous super pac may donate unlimited amounts to it's transparent sister pac. These anonymous donations may be listed as "anonymous" on the transparent pac record. Steven Colbert showed audiences how American politics now has it's own form of money laundering, causing Karl Rove to state his PACs would never transfer anonymous funds to transparent ones as "anonymous".

Confusing? We need to get this money shit out of elections. 24/7 internet/cable political-media and a 13 month primary season are more than enough for candidates to spread their message.

It's not just politicians who benefit from all the big money crap before elections. With every new state that throws themselves into premier primary-dates, they become big media targets and the money flows to their state economies.

It's no wonder we rarely get anything straight these days. It's all a big damn circus. I heard John Heilemann w/ New York Magazine claim that each party will wind up throwing a billion into the general and ~$700 million of it will go toward negative advertising, respectively. $1.4 billion in negative ads, jesbus h christ.

 

[SacredBreh]

Gary Johnson.....

Gary Johnson.....

I think he would be a good alternative to RP. I like much of the ideas he has put out there. I think the GOP would really be pissed if RP took him on as VP but in many ways I think that would work in RP favor.

Not sure Gary Johnson could do much in an election alone though but maybe down the road.

Peace

 

[itisme]

He'll have more to face than media scrutiny. Crony capitalism is bigger than ever.

Confusing? We need to get this money shit out of elections. 24/7 internet/cable political-media and a 13 month primary season are more than enough for candidates to spread their message.

Agreed and Agreed.

...I already posted the RP list of supporters....Top 3 of the first 4 is Military troops giving Dr. Paul their hard earned money so they can come home. That is who is supporting him....and the typical undecided will go from Obama to RP....It is much less likely that he is lying, after preaching the same thing for 30 years.

What is GARY JOHNSON's idea to fix the FED DISCOBICUIT? I didn't see anything when I looked for it.

 

[ShroomDr]

Paul is on the GOP primary ticket, IF he wins, they are stuck with him (Just like they were stuck with McCain). (Remember Huckabee won Iowa 2008, Romeny NH { <--- i think} Its a long road.)

McCain 'jobbed' himself letting the RNC pick Palin. Palin was suppose to be someone that would deliver 'the base' for McCain (who was seen as too liberal). Palin instead concentrated 'the base' and alienated the rest.

Palin is the reason Obama is president right now.

The candidate who wins the RNC nomination gets to choose the VP, but often they bow to their parties 'political will' and the choice is political move (GWB was 'young and inexperienced' Cheney is a war hawk, Clinton was right center, Gore was strong on environment, Reagan and GHWB, JFK from Mass. chooses a Texan LBJ [oops]).


But Ron Paul would be free to choose whomever he wishes (McCain floated Lieberman).

 

[ShroomDr]

FWIW these came out today

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus
Insider Advantage Romney 23, Paul 22, Santorum 18, Gingrich 16, Perry 10 Romney +1

Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus
PPP (D) Romney 19, Paul 20, Santorum 18, Gingrich 14, Perry 10, Bachmann 8 Paul +1

That is the first time ive seen Paul in the lead (not sure the margin of error).

 

[Plant Early]

 

[greenmatter]

He'll have more to face than media scrutiny. Crony capitalism is bigger than ever. The top 0.1% has no restrictions on how much issue (i.e. policy idea, position etc) advertising they can buy. And they don't have to disclose who they are.

I might be mistaken but I think candidate ads have no limit (but donors names are public info.)

The anonymous super pac may donate unlimited amounts to it's transparent sister pac. These anonymous donations may be listed as "anonymous" on the transparent pac record. Steven Colbert showed audiences how American politics now has it's own form of money laundering, causing Karl Rove to state his PACs would never transfer anonymous funds to transparent ones as "anonymous".

Confusing? We need to get this money shit out of elections. 24/7 internet/cable political-media and a 13 month primary season are more than enough for candidates to spread their message.

It's not just politicians who benefit from all the big money crap before elections. With every new state that throws themselves into premier primary-dates, they become big media targets and the money flows to their state economies.

It's no wonder we rarely get anything straight these days. It's all a big damn circus. I heard John Heilemann w/ New York Magazine claim that each party will wind up throwing a billion into the general and ~$700 million of it will go toward negative advertising, respectively. $1.4 billion in negative ads, jesbus h christ.

the whole system has become a joke. money always seems to lead to bullshit. some of the things RP wants to do sound a little drastic to me, and the fact that he actually will need both the parties to actually help him get anything done worry me. both parties have taken the term "cock blocking" to a new high in the last 20 years.

if he could actually get the money/corruption out of the way things are run he would be the best president we have had for a long time. hose the horse shit off the foundations and start building the wall strait and plumb!!!!!....... it might actually lead to something

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

the whole system has become a joke. money always seems to lead to bullshit. some of the things RP wants to do sound a little drastic to me, and the fact that he actually will need both the parties to actually help him get anything done worry me. both parties have taken the term "cock blocking" to a new high in the last 20 years.

if he could actually get the money/corruption out of the way things are run he would be the best president we have had for a long time. hose the horse shit off the foundations and start building the wall strait and plumb!!!!!....... it might actually lead to something

It's a joke alright, it's also a swindle. One party can't reverse the two most popular programs in history, as high 78% and 75% in favor of, respectively. We pay for the goose that lays the egg and three of every four want their egg. One of four is cutting the goose' throat because they refuse to manage the necessary revenues that three out of four voters want.

Two out of every three proponents are asleep, they vote for the same crowd determined to eliminate their retirement interests. Not to reduce spending but to award the private sector their due - the opportunity to hit us with more costs.

These two of every three proponents will snooze away until it happens. And they'll blame the guy who happens to be sitting in the oval office at that moment, no matter that the wrecking ball has been swinging for 30 years and counting.

The lawmakers telling us that SS and Medicare are broken are lying and they're the very folks trying to break it. When we're young we have our health but when we're old and feeble we'll have the wrecking ball to thank for privatizing our SS and forcing us to pay profit-laden health care paperwork premiums so fat cats can award themselves bigger bonuses.

 

[BrnCow]

the whole system has become a joke. money always seems to lead to bullshit. some of the things RP wants to do sound a little drastic to me, and the fact that he actually will need both the parties to actually help him get anything done worry me. both parties have taken the term "cock blocking" to a new high in the last 20 years.

if he could actually get the money/corruption out of the way things are run he would be the best president we have had for a long time. hose the horse shit off the foundations and start building the wall strait and plumb!!!!!....... it might actually lead to something

That's the hope anyway....

 

[BrnCow]

Some of these runners have no intention of winning but want the $$$ the get for running.

 

[itisme]

What is GARY JOHNSON's idea to fix the FED DISCOBICUIT? I can't find anything when I look for it.

I am just trying to have a discussion Discobisuit (since you got a candidate). You sure never re-framed from quoting me until now!

Gary Johnson says "scrutinize the FED", "ending it would be a good start", "FED is ponzi scheme" and I agree completely.
I found his economic plan extremely similar to RP.....So I am asking you what is his suggestion for fixing the FED and monetary policiy?
You hammered RP and even insinuated that his objective of going to the Gold standard was a plan to enhance his own wealth while destroying our currency.........So can you please tell me what GJ plans to fix the FED and monetary system are?

I can't find it. What I have found is extremely vague. Not that RP has it all figured out....I am trying to get good data, not dogma!

 

[ShroomDr]

The lawmakers telling us that SS and Medicare are broken are lying and they're the very folks trying to break it.

This is true. They are doing the same to the US Postal Service now. Forcing them to fund retirements for new hires (something no company does).

...forcing us to pay profit-laden health care paperwork premiums so fat cats can award themselves bigger bonuses.

But i fail to see how this is solved with obamacare. It doesnt solve the problem of soaring prices, it only creates more customers to buy insurance premiums.

More opportunity to gouge a Fed program, one more Federal contract.

If i could get a job selling Ibuprofen to the Govt for $8 per 200mg, you bet your ass i would. Just like if i owned the water company.

Thats a great illustration of the problem.



Another is the money isnt real, hell even dollars are not backed by gold, when the top 1% net wealth is the same as the bottom half of the country, it is not in ANYONES best interest.

Uhaul's dont follow hearses; ya cant take it with ya.

The US 'Gilded Age' was only golden if your name was Rockefeller or Carnegie (or Pinkerton).

The Russian history of Ivan the Terrible, the 'Time of Troubles', and the Russian Revolution, all had to do with too much control of capital in the hands of too few. French too, many many examples.

So what does a billionaire with too much money to do?

Give it to dumb stripper broads like this!

Who end up like this

(FWIW i had a pic of her throwing up here, until i realized it was her death photo. Truly graphic; same point.)

There has to be a better way!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ah, the dreaded communism.

We have 45 to 50 million going to the emergency room when they need a doctor. Plan watered-down can't fix what plan A sought, which was to reduce 1/6 GDP and rising.

However, we can cut costs because these folks need health insurance. It's not a giveaway, it's an opportunity to buy the same heath care insurance you and I have.

 

[itisme]

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Pr...xico/Gary_Johnson/views/The_Federal_Reserve/;

Federal Reserve

Governor Johnson has stated that the actions of the Federal Reserve Bank should be more transparent and that it needs to be reviewed and managed effectively. Governor Johnson blames the Federal Reserve Bank for the housing bubble, but also credits them with mitigating that bust. He states that the American people deserve to know the extent to which the Fed has purchased private assets at home and abroad to help ensure that the value of the dollar is not deminished further.

Although he has called for more transparency, he does not feel that the Federal Reserve Bank should be abolished. He is also hesitant about regulating the bank as that would put politicians such as Barney Frank in charge of greater economic power.

SPENDING AND THE DEFICIT

Government spends too much because it does too much. Unchecked deficits are the single greatest threat to our national security. Unless we take significant steps soon, our federal debt will equal the entire economic production of the United States.

We should start by reassessing the role of the federal government, and always asking the question: Should the government be doing this in the first place?
We must act now to:


Gary Johnson says,
The Federal Reserve Bank needs to be reviewed and managed effectively. The actions of the Federal Reserve should be transparent. Congress should take a close look at how the Federal Reserve Bank is operated and regulated. If changes need to be made within the Federal Reserve Bank, they should be made.

but I still don't see his suggestions for the fix? Very ambiguous. I like transparency, better managed, and audited frequently, but I prefer that we find some way to abolish the privatized aspects of the FED or end it. Changes should be made but what kind? If not more gov't oversight then how to control it? I say open audit them and make them return all undisclosed funds pronto. Considering that is 16 TRILLION, we could pay off a lot of bills. They are using it to run the largest ponzi scheme in history. We can't allow that to continue.

NOW LET'S SEE WHO CONTINUES TO IGNORE WHOM. why? Because I insisted he pony up a candidate if he wanted to continuously derail mine. Now instead of re-posting my quotes and taking them out of context while he present negatives about RP fixes and suggestions. I am only trying to have a discussion. Are you taking your computer and going home on me now?

 

[elwaponino]

Hey guys, less than 24 hours the country will know Ron Paul and the FORCE that backs him up.

We are that much closer to PERSONAL LIBERTY.

 

[itisme]

So how does a former super power's national bank compete in a global economy?
Ever thought about how Paul would manage ending the fed? Has Paul ever offered how he'll manage? Nope.

Ron Suggests....More transparency, Full GAO Audits, Congressional oversight, Stop reckless spending & printing money, Desires to abolish the FED, Rid FED of lobbyist, end FDIC deposit insurance, move forward to a Commodities market.....NOT GOLD standard......as you suggested RP had invested in Gold & Silver to pad his pocket and he would evoke a Gold Standard to ruin our economy.

LINK HERE
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=1329475430

This is more than I could find on Gary Johnson......Your turn.

 

[itisme]

Originally Posted by bentom187
What he (Ron Paul) is for is a commodity backed dollar ,and by that he means multiple commodities like gold & silver,that way no-one can corner the market,you could actually use a completley unbacked dollar like lincon did (greenbacks) wich was only used because people in this country agreed that they would use it for the payment of debts and to purchase goods ,it was backed with only the full faith and credit of the united states.
In england they actually used wood sticks (tally sticks) to pay taxes.
Now would he stand to make money if we switched yes,but he's been preaching about the federal reserve for years he knows they manipulate the money supply to create booms and busts,and to tell every one to follow your advice and not be taking your own advice would be out of touch,espeacially with dr.paul .
I think a better question is why did nixon close the gold window and why does the federal reserve store gold,and why isnt their a annual audit of fort knox.

Good info. IMO GDP gets a bum rap because it's a number, not a commodity. However, GDP is the index of all commerce. Non-commodity trade isn't necessarily backed with something we can touch yet we recognize that service itself has real value.

We could theoretically expand the definition of commodities-backed currency to approach national wealth. In order to back our currency we'd have to sequester these commodities from circulation. National wealth is so immense that building the joint to house it becomes unfeasible. To credit Dr. Paul, we would have to consider some type of fractional backing.

So, this narrows part of the equation. If Dr. Paul would actually consider fractional, commodities based currency, the fiat aspect remains. Fiat isn't necessarily the werdy derd that many make it out to be. Fiat is bad in the sense that banana republic dictators exploit their systems to the point of insolvency.

Our system isn't left to a dictator. Some might equate the fed to a cabal that greases their own interests yet the fed's mandate is to sustain liquidity when private banks cease lending. The fed is also supposed to manage interest rates to mitigate booms to the point that busts aren't as significant. Obviously we can't perfect projected forecasts and history reflects the fed's poor decisions.

That said, commodity-backed currency would do nothing to mitigate inflation. Commodity-backed currency would not cause bankers to lend when their interests suggest otherwise. This narrows the equation a bit further and we begin to recognize what Dr. Paul particularly dislikes in addition to speculating on the potential outcomes, based on ideology's historic, economic record.

IMO, Dr. Paul most dislikes the idea of a group of people making monetary decisions. Yet a national bank would more than likely consist of a board seeking to mitigate the negative effects of inflation -or- do nothing at all, forcing the masses to swallow economic contraction.

IMO, Dr. Paul doesn't believe in government-sanctioned liquidity management, preferring that the market itself dictate winners and losers. I get it that a bad mouse trap might not make it to fame and fortune but mom and pop suffer to the point that feeding themselves becomes problematic.

Someone mentioned that Dr. Paul isn't a capitalist. I might expand a little to suggest that macro economics isn't necessarily on Dr. Paul's plate. The direct intent lies in seeing that the market is unencumbered with regulation and may freely exercise it's potential. IMO, we're getting to the meat here.

Hoover sat idly by as the precursor to the Great Depression got worse. This wasn't a dereliction of duty because Hoover actually believed the market would right the economy itself. Yet Hoover was no macro economist. Hoover believed that those suffering needed to better plan for their future hard times.

If we look at history, our worst economic times were when we had the least regulatory actions. Unfettered capitalism is like running with the scissors. The rich gain substantially during macro contraction and they're loath to change. The driving force behind commerce becomes the brake of upward mobility for the masses.

We were discussing economic opportunity in another thread and a Dr. Paul supporter suggested that opportunity spread too broadly devalues opportunity itself. Not if one looks at the cumulative. IMO, our president represents the opportunity to expand the macro or allow it to favor sectors of.

I see you systematically shitting in the RP bean pot when you think the kitchen is empty. Post 679 is from where you ask the HOW WOULD RON PAUL FED FIX in the NEWT thread......I see me and bentom187 answer you in this thread. Above is your systematic destruction of Ron Paul's idea........BUT!!!

What I don't see is your answers to how your candidate (Gary Johnson) would fix the FED........Where is it??? What is GJ fix????