Revival of the Ultimate Sativa Thread

[Guest]

Of course, the larger the population to make selection from the better. In 64, it was possible to do large scale field brows and field-scale open pollenation, and selections from thousands of plants. CAMP, the Reagan era etc. changed all that and in the modern era, it's not really possible to grow on such a scale so selections are smaller and breeders instead need to test the potential parents for desirable traits.

I mean, how would you breed something like Haze nowadays? First you would have to grow out large numbers of individuals of a few different landrace sativa cultivars in order to find the strains with the desirable traits, that would mean 1000s upon 1000s of plants just to decide which strains to work with. Then over several years, you would need to 'clean-up' each of your selected lines to remove undesirable traits such as an intersex trait and to stabilise the line fore the desirable traits. Thats several years of field scale crops, tens of 1000s of plants before you've even got to the point of being ready to make hybrids! It would take several more years to test grow the various crosses then you could begin selecting for desired traits, it's a decades long process to go from a bunch of landrace tropical sativa cultivars to a stable, true-breeding IBL like Haze, that is why strains like Haze, NL, Skunk #1 and Afghani #1 are found in so many of today's modern hybrids, with weed being illegal almost everywhere, things have to be smaller scale and that means hybrids of existing IBLs rather than new IBLs composed of fresh landrace and heirloom genes.

 

[motaco]

@ herbalistic. lol. I know how that goes. You know how they say if you get an english degree all you can do is teach? thats not true you can go around internet pot forums and correct peoples grammar.

Man New Orleans ain't so great right now. It's hot and humid as hell, and roving thunderstorms almost everyday. Its cleaner than its been but it looks REALLY different if your from here. I get lost in neighborhoods I grew up in because nothing looks the same. There isn't much going on around here. And its been so hot I haven't been going in the swamps. So many cottonmouths and alligators and shit this time of year.


@ganico well I"m no botanist but to the best of my knowledge the reason they use the single parent production is this. They can stabilize the traits better in only about two years. They pick the best male and female f1 and clone them. The best f2 generation female is crossed back to the f1 male, than with the f3 generation you cross the best male back to the f1 mom, and then bred the f4 gen amongst themselves to finish off the stabilizing at f5. this is a predictable, quick, and stable way to breed. but it also leads to inbreeding depression if you breed your own seed stock every year instead of take clones. So its makes alot of sense if you need uniform results to sell ten seeds to indoor growers with small lights who plan to clone anyway. The problem is eventually your line will get depression unless you kept the original parent stock alive to start from scratch again.

The other way is ALOT longer and produces less stable end results but will take significantly longer to go into inbreeding depression. and thats taking the best three or so males to the best three or so females in an open pollination. and stabilize best traits for many generations. This is much less stable seeds but you can breed your own quality seeds till you die. good for an outdoor grower who makes seeds every year.

This is the reason colombian gold and pure mexicans etc. are as strong today as they were forty years ago, but strains like g13 and getting weaker and more generic with each generation. They are spitting from a smaller gene pool. g13 will give you more stable results and uniformity, but lower in quality after a very short amount of time. the regional sats will give a wide variety of plants but some will be killer. dutch growers did the single plant method and bushman worldwide have stuck to letting a few males gangbanging and growing beans from the stoneiest plants.

 

[Herbalistic]

It depends lot of what we are trying to archieve. If we want to keep as much genetic diversity as possible, we should use as many plants as available. If we are after single trait´s, we use single parents with desired trait´s...

My

It´s true that those old lines are very interesting because of the wide genetic diversity. I dont know about you guys, but I want multiple different phenos when grown by seed for personal use and when the quality of the smoke is the goal with different high´s!

Neville´s Haze took some purp´s pollen today, now I just have to wait...

 

[Guest]

I like this thread.. Mmm good sativa

 

[motaco]

yeah but if your an indoor grower spending five dollars per seed with only a few feet to grow in you what managable, stable, potent bud. It just doesn't do the strain as a whole any good to breed it like that. In fact its been the nail in the coffin to more than a few strains. But nevertheless I understand why they do it.

Its a shame we can't just grow outdoors.

What I was thinking would be pretty cool is if you went around jamaica for a few months checking out different growers till you found some that had some chunky squat stony indicas that were doing good and breed them back in the south.

I think if you had a strain or two that were indicas bred for tropical heat and humidity you'd have a cult following for it. You can't hardly grow indicas in the south because of the heat and humidity. All the indica strains are meant for cold weather growers in dry areas.

I read just the other day in a florida growers thread a guys say "I've never seen an indica crop in florida do anything other than lose everything to mold"

Which is ironic, but true. Because That is definitely true but one of the first outdoor cashcrop indicas was bred in florida in the 70's to be grown in tropical conditions. and jamaica has at least 30% if not more than half of the nations harvest pretty damn indica. Most are lower quality but no doubt if you went there and looked hard enough you could find a couple decent indicas with apples on sticks.

With a little stabilization I think growers in the south would eat up short bushy indicas done during the summer. Just nobody grows them because everything is lost to mold. and the freezes kill alot of sativas.

but if they are doing them in the heat and humidity of jamaica I think they will be okay in florida and georgia etc. and with a little veg time they're liable to yield something too.

 

[Herbalistic]

Yeah motaco, I was talking only about growing seeds, not breeding with them. I wanna select different phenos that I clone and decide what to grow after smoking them. If they are nice, I maybe cross them and do couple seeds for me & friends joy. I just simply dont have the needed space to do bigger selections.

 

[Guest]

man people are weird. he probably sent you -k because he saw you drying weed in the sun and thought that was a crime against weed. I'll never understand why people are like that.

I used to talk to a guy who grew really airy sativas. as we all know airy sativa can turn into a wildfire in your bowl from being so loose. so he'd press a quarter sack a week (what he was smoking) into a flat denser nug that would burn better in a smaller bowl and people used to rag him out over it.

Herb!!!

As one of the newest people here, I say, "don't sweat it". I've read a sufficient number of your posts to know you are one of the "good guys" on these forums.

This is the first forum (after looking at a number of BB's on the net) where mature people discuss what I have recently found to be an utterly fascinating subject:

Growing and breeding all these wonderful strains of Cannabis Sativa.

I'm 59 years old and missed out on all this growing fun...until now. Circumstances(financial and otherwise) pretty much forced me into growing my own. Unfortunately, my impatience to get something grown led me to choosing 2 non sativa strains for my first grow. I fixed that mistake last night.

I'm at a point in my life where I intend to enjoy what I have left. My girl friend feels the same way. We live in an absolutely gorgeous place in the Northern Rocky Mountains....even if the the latitude is way to far North for sativas to grow

My grows need to remain modest for now since I live in an apartment. So I have to grow in a hydrohut mini grow tent. We hope to have a house out in the "bush" by this time next year. We should have room to grow out some of these wonderful sativas at that time.

My next grtow will probably begin the first part of August. I don't have my grow tent blower system set up yet. I'm waiting on parts. I'm also waiting on the rest of my seeds.

I currently have 30 Cali Orange Bud seeds and 5 Ice seeds. These I will save and maybe grow outdoors next summer if this grow goes well.

I have 10 Durban Poison and 10 Malawi Gold coming from Seedsman. The ad said these are "wild seeds" gathered in Africa...and not Dutch hybrids. You folks would know if that is to be believed. These are supposed to be 100% true breeding sativas.

I also have some hybrids coming. Satori from Mandela and Thai-Tanic from Flying Dutchman. Granted these are not the "real deal" sativas, but I have some yield requirements for this next grow that I cannot get away from.

So I have a question for whoever would like to respond:

Given my grow setup...... 39"x39"x78" (in reality, actual plant height is restricted to < 60", better would be < 48"-- 120cm) Organic soil grow under a 430 W Hortilux HPS light.

I would like to do 12/12 from seed. I'm leery of growing out two or three very different strains in the same grow. The plant heights could vary a lot. I countered this last grow by placing short plants on objects to make the "canopy" even. Could I grow out 2 or three of the above strains together? And use propping up pots and/or LST to keep the canopy even?

Can plants be "topped" when grown from seed under 12/12? Or is that gonna risk stressing plants too much and they herm on me?

If in your opinion I can grow more than one strain in that 1 sq meter, which would you choose? And another critical question is , "How many of each seed would you sprout?" I can get 25 pots in the mini 5x5 as long as they are under 7.5 inches square (or dia.) That would work out to 1gallon (4 liter) or slightly bigger...if I can find pots like that.

Is 25 plants too many? Would 16 (4x4) be better? with larger pots for plants? Or is keeping pot size small necessary to force flowering?

Lotta questions I know, but if someone has the time, I'd like to hear from you.

Thanks

Obli

PS: I would like to say thanks publicly to BritishHempire. Just a shame there aren't more folks around like him.

 

[Baphomet]

Gotta luv this thread!

Well I got to weigh my Nigerian today (still absolutely stoked about having my 1st pure Sativa ) before I put her into the curing jars - 2.92oz which I'm pretty damn happy about considering she came out of a bag of unidentified mixed freebies I got when I ordered from Amsterdam Seedbank.

Anyways, while maybe not as exciting as some of the exotic beauties posted on here lately, I'm pretty happy (and proud) of this one, and besides, who else can I show?

Got 2 more Nigerias gonna be flipped to 12/12 next week...

 

[Baphomet]

While flying on a Nigerian high and reading the site, I've just ordered another 3 Sativas, this time from World Of Seeds via Alien Growshop (damn brainwashing Sativas...):

Kilimanjaro
Sth African Kwazulu
Wild Thailand

Anyone able to give me in tips/advice/smoke reviews for any of these strains?
Thanks.

 

[moe]

i have kwazulu too
two seed don't germinate and i wait so long..(somone told me thait with landrace
u could wait 15 days to sprout)
i have a third one that i try to germinate, now in 12 hours she's open..but nothing
new..
hard time lol

 

[Baphomet]

Hey moe
If you don't mind me asking, what method of germination did you use?
Did you scuff or presoak seeds beforehand?
Did you try & germinate in paper towels, jiffy pots, or straight into their medium?
How old were the seeds?
Thanks.

The more I read on the landrace varieties, the more I'm intrigued.
I guess I have a new mission now - to find my Ultimate Sativa!
Good luck with the grow!

 

[moe]

i put it 12 hours in a glass full of water, waiting for the seeds
to go down !
then on a wet paper in a plastic box closed.

 

[krepis]

What a beautiful thread! One of the best on IC and definetly should be a sticky.
Thank you motaco for starting this.

 

[Herbalistic]

Herb!!!

As one of the newest people here, I say, "don't sweat it". I've read a sufficient number of your posts to know you are one of the "good guys" on these forums.

This is the first forum (after looking at a number of BB's on the net) where mature people discuss what I have recently found to be an utterly fascinating subject:
Growing and breeding all these wonderful strains of Cannabis Sativa.

Thank you for your words Oblidio49, I really appreciate them and im happy if you got that feeling of me after reading my post´s! So you did end up with seedsman gear, nice, now we just have to wait what you can produce with them beans. Im sure those strains give you the high you are looking for!

BTW, I agree with you 100 % that this forum offers mature discussion considering our belowed erb´!!!

Baphomet: Nice Nigerian nugs you got, they should keep you happy for a while...

 

[Baphomet]

Baphomet: Nice Nigerian nugs you got, they should keep you happy for a while...

Cheers Herbalistic
Oooooooohhh yeah...
They're already tastin' great, and that high...
...and that's only a couple of minor nugs that were only dried, and hadn't yet been cured

Anyone here make bubble hash from their girls?
Just had my 1st successful bubble run with White Widow (60% Sativa) and my precious Nigerian (nowhere near the trich yield of the WW 'though).
So, what can I expect from Sativa bubble hash, the uplifting Sativa high magnified, or the high plus a heavy stone?
Cheers!

 

[Guest]

I've not made bubble hash from a pure sativa, btu I have made shaken kif, and usually it is very similar uplifting effect. The Zamal finger hash I made after trimming was exactly the same flavour and effect as the buds, just intensified. I've been pressing some Zamal kif for a few days while keeping it warm on my ballast to make a nice hard cake, I'll try a bit on my bong right now and let you know what it's like.

 

[Baphomet]

Thanks British Hempire, but don't smoke on my account
Excuse my ignorance, but is 'Zamal' a strain?
I just checked my big map o' Africa as well as google, but to no avail

I look forward to your report... as long as you'll still be able to type

Cheers

 

[redrider]

Redrider

Redrider

Hello everyone, I've got some bad news, it turns out that my growing daze have come to an end as I'm moving out of Colombia forever and returning the police state up north. I really enjoyed my stay down here and the great weed I grew and smoked. I did document and photograph every single plant I grew and I will share this info. with the world (and a few Colombian growers). Thanks so much to Red for the chance to grow the best seeds in the best climate on the planet! I wish good Karma on all and remember the great Colombian Sativa is still here for those with enough adventure in their heart to find it.

Peace and respect from Colombia

 

[Herbalistic]

Im sorry to hear the new´s Redrider You did show all of us that Colombian legendary sativas are alive and doing well in all of their variety!!! So, did the famous Colombian temper of your chica affect your leave? I would love to see your Colombian grows, but I understand the situation. However, im glad that you are ok and nothing bad has happened to you! Take care bro and let us know about you sometimes! Im sure you are pissed to leave that dream of sativa lover and all those gorgeous chicas, but you still got seeds from those crazy strains, so it´s easy for you to have little nostalgia trip after you have settled up!!

Damn you BH, I think I have to come in Britain just to taste that dry sifted Zamal

 

[redrider]

Colombia

Colombia

Herbalistic my friend I'm leaving Colombia for the same reason the Colombians are, work. There's no work (money) here so I got to go where the money is. No problems with my beautiful Colombia, shes moving with me. And all the seeds I had have gone back to the people.

Peace