M
MrSterling
edit: I was in a foul mood and was a jerk this morning.
-
As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
Rate the Breeders
- Thread starter floralheart
- Start date
edit: So was I, my apologies, back on track.
Last edited:
C
ChemFrog
I don't understand you... so no worries about offending me bro... LOL. Again what do you mean by Polyhybrid?
and believe me Trolls like you(click it) don't make me angry... you fools are entertainment... plus you guys are usually so retarded it gives me a perfect platform to share my thoughts by correcting your ignorance, and other people get a kick out of it too... believe me its funny!
To be honest this place has been a bit lacking in Trolls since REZ has been away anyway... and it feels good to scrape a little shit off the bottom of my shoe
[URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38410&pictureid=909268"]View Image[/URL]...
Hardcore Facepalm... Fool; Fanboy... really? what are you talking about, what do you know? I just called you on your Bull Shit and the fact that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, and therefore shouldn't be posting in a public forum as if you did especially when you are just Flaming... and you think pulling the "Fanboy" card in some way makes you impervious to logic LOL... well no it just keeps you ignorant.
That is about as rational and original as these...
[URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38961&pictureid=921133"]View Image[/URL] [URL="https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=38961&pictureid=921132"]View Image[/URL]...
LOL... So even if I was a big fan of CSG, which I'm not particularly, ^^^ that doesn't change the fact that you look stupid as all hell.
Haha chemfrog, do you have anymore breeding gold to bestow upon us?
You really make me laugh
If i look stupid then why has most peepz on this thread positive repped me?? and your the only moron on here so far that neg rep me lol
Sumtimes the truth hurts and thats why you feel so offended that you have to reply your bull crap back to me lol
Carry on MrPolyhybrid with your perfetic remarks of me being a troll
M
MrSterling
Chem, the only reason I haven't negative repped you is I've given out too much rep today. I'm pretty sure you're a troll. If you're not then you're just stupid throwing around quasi-scientific words like "polyhybrid".
can we please get back to rating breeders?
Chemfrog, you must not have gotten to fractions yet in your studies... as 4/10 isn't considered "most" plus who gives a fuck about how many times you were repped... its all very childish and you come off as a kid or something... like Hubbleman does
BTW I don't think I neg repped you... and when I do hand out not helpfuls it is because someone posted some gross misinformation that people deserve to know is false... nothing personal... and I'm glad you could laugh along
but for real, if you are not just some troll... you should shape up your act, be respectful and you'll get respect. next time have a thread to back up your grievances instead of making unsubstantiated inflammatory remarks about people that ARE well respected and do good work.
is CSG the best group of breeders hell no! are they better than 80-90% of breeders hell yes!
In a native american voice: Me bury hatchet, you come out from bridge, we puff peace pipe... big smoke
Peace,
Infi
BTW I don't think I neg repped you... and when I do hand out not helpfuls it is because someone posted some gross misinformation that people deserve to know is false... nothing personal... and I'm glad you could laugh along
but for real, if you are not just some troll... you should shape up your act, be respectful and you'll get respect. next time have a thread to back up your grievances instead of making unsubstantiated inflammatory remarks about people that ARE well respected and do good work.
is CSG the best group of breeders hell no! are they better than 80-90% of breeders hell yes!
In a native american voice: Me bury hatchet, you come out from bridge, we puff peace pipe... big smoke
Peace,
Infi
another point to consider is that there are many talented individuals out there, with the knowledge, dedication and love to produce quality seeds; but they lack the resources (read: money) to set-up a space to work. so they simply do not do it and limit themselves to growing for personal use and make seeds for personal use too, maybe throw a few here and there for free to close pals.
no one has mentioned good old Afropips yet... he had/has (is he still around?) great stuff.
Grew his Malawi Gold and Swazi Red, beautiful plants and great fathers/mothers to be found.
Had a friend who grew his Tribal Visions, and his description was that it was the most psychedelic herb he had smoked, and he had been smoking for decades...
then we have true underground legends like lamanonegra, awesome man that spread so many quality seeds around the world for free that should make many clowns selling ten seeds for a c-note ashamed of themselves.
no one has mentioned good old Afropips yet... he had/has (is he still around?) great stuff.
Grew his Malawi Gold and Swazi Red, beautiful plants and great fathers/mothers to be found.
Had a friend who grew his Tribal Visions, and his description was that it was the most psychedelic herb he had smoked, and he had been smoking for decades...
then we have true underground legends like lamanonegra, awesome man that spread so many quality seeds around the world for free that should make many clowns selling ten seeds for a c-note ashamed of themselves.
M
MrSterling
Afropips is out of business as far as I know. CBG is carrying on his Malawi in some form. I was unaware lamano was involved with ACE bombadil, thanks for the info!
M
MrSterling
Ok, let's see if I can explain myself better, and my apologies for derailing a thread about breeders with defining words, etc, but I'd like to think it's big picture relevant. A major caveat is that I'm not quite sure how things should be organized, just that I feel we're going about it decidedly the wrong way, and I hope you guys can follow.
Let's start at the basics and discuss what science means by a species. Let's take for example the Laysan Finch(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laysan_Finch), an endangered variety of finch from the Hawaiian islands, we classify it as its own species for a variety of reasons - whom it can breed with, where it lives, its physical characteristics, etc. It's easy to see why we don't consider the Laysan Finch to be the same species as the American Goldfinch(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Goldfinch). We worry about individual species going extinct because it decreases biodiversity and undermines existing ecosystems, on top of the other reasons like we feel fucking terrible when something dies off completely. Scientists in general are less worried when a subspecies dies off, let's use as an example Lonesome George, the last Pinta Island tortoise who died this year. While the Pinta Island tortoise is now extinct, it was a subspecies, and its genes live on in other tortoises of the greater species. Just keep the analogy of the Finch and the Tortoise in mind and hear me out.
Onward to Cannabis: So we have cannabis, technically all Cannabis sativa by scientific classification. We've broken the varieties down further as plant aficionados, recognizing generally Cannabis sativa, Cannabis indica, and sometimes Cannabis ruderalis - this is all the basics you learn when you make the mistake of buying Jorge Cervantes' pot bible. We've broken them down in classification for growing purposes, but it's all one species. Cannabis sativa has no difficulty in breeding with Cannabis ruderalis, or indica. The plants have evolved to survive in different environs, but by all scientific reasoning they're the same species.
We had to separate the scientific system from our own classification, the scientific was simply not sufficient for our purposes. It's not enough to say "I'm smoking some indica" when someone asks you - that vaguely means something, but there's a great diversity in smoke, smell, taste, and of course, high. We used to classify further back in the day by origin "this is some Panama Red" or "Afghani", and if the genes weren't so muddled today I'd say this would be the best starting point for organizing strains. A sativa from Africa has wildly different effects than a central American sativa.
Then we get to the naming, which is where I think the problem starts. We name everything, which kinda makes sense, it would be a pain to tell someone they're smoking [NLxBB]x[Skunk#1xHaze] - so why not call it something shorter? We've done that thousands of times, except it's not just products from breeding. Someone can find a phenotype they like of another strain, and rename that, or S1 it and treat it like its own strain. When do you stop though, and when does something deserve a new name? How similar are these sister strains in their cannabinoid profile?
Further, not all strains are created equal. You have breeders like Sam who worked for years to really perfect Skunk#1 - it's been worked and worked and stabilized until it really is unique, but they're few and far between. Think of all the big names you know: Northern Lights, Sour Diesel, OG Kush, etc. Some of these we have origin breeders for, but there might be half a dozen vendors selling their own variety of the same strain, all different. How many different OG's are there being pushed out there? How can we act as if a variety is a variety if the name might mean half a dozen different breeder's projects. Then there are the hacks out there; when Joe Schmoe tosses some pollen at an elite line, can we really consider that a strain, let alone compare it to a species. It's not worked, it's not been stabilized, and chances are when you get down to the F2s you're not going to have the plant you started with. Should your Bubba Kush cross be considered its own unique strain, or would we be better thinking of it as say part of a "bubba kush" family? My belief is that the community at large treats strains like they're all Laysan Finch, when really they're closer to the subspecies tortoise. It would be a shame if the strain was lost, but the genetic diversity of the plant would not really decreased. The unique strain you love so much is even less than a subspecies though, it's closer to an individual compared to the human species as a whole.
As to why people treat them like individual species, there are two answers, one nice and one mean. The nice answer is I think that we've gotten into the habit of naming everything that pops out from the dirt, and if you're going to name things individually they start being treated as individuals. There are a lot of people who differentiate between strains without treating them like unique species though, and in my experience most of the people I've seen on the ic and elsewhere rambling on about strains being lost are completely out of touch with critical thought, scientific fact, and have little to no understanding of what they speak. They open their mouth and stir up shit. It's their cause and obsession as smokers. "Blame it on big pharma, or the government, or dutch seed growers, it's all their fault we're losing our precious heirloom varieties". Making mountains out of molehills and imagining spectres. There's so many myths and superstitions on this site pushed by these people. Not to drop a name and pick on someone, but look at headband's post a few pages back that I gave him grief for. He likes to go on about how mother plants are going to drift genetically and we're going to lose these precious strains. No science, no rational thought, just a conviction that strains are being lost, and a bullheaded theory.
The thing is though, that we can spend all day long debating how unique individual strains are, or how we should define strains. I think the last few paragraphs I wrote and all this arguing are moot though, because we don't have the resources to maintain lines. It doesn't matter if a person thinks their Sour Bubble BX3 line is so genetically unique that it's worth saving, we can't breed out numbers large enough to stabilize them. We don't even have the numbers most of the time to stabilize these lines past a few generations, so why treat them like they're a unique species? Until we get legalization, and people who know what they're doing are breeding, seed lines will shift and change. If you like a plant enough that you want to keep it around forever, keep a mom. That is your best bet, and if you take care of her you'll have her for damn near forever.
Shit, that was a wall of text that I'm afraid will not make much sense. tl;dr - All the arguing about strains is pointless because we don't have the plant numbers to stabilize individual lines anyway.
Sure makes Sense all Mr S, Tho I am just not sure yet in what type of Holistic world view this could give us something to work with atm.
Like as you say iow: Prohibition 's a bitch & also you yourselves are not certain yet as to in quote, Mr S:A major caveat is that I'm not quite sure how things should be organized.
Though when you state: quote Mr S: just that I feel we're going about it decidedly the wrong way, and I hope you guys can follow.... Then these words completely resonate with me on a feeling basis too.^^
So besides of the prohibition thingy, What the fuck are we doing wrong and who could know? or give us a kick in the right direction?
My private thoughts on this?... Everything goes like it goes, and we'll figure it out somehow. I am glad though with your piece of input here above, as I sense you are up to something.
For now, I mainly let 'my creations' be maintained by nature itself, > inbreeding spot per individual spot , prolly to outcross the outcome of several spots later on & to be sown out over newly to be prepared prospective spots after a few generations of inbreeding.
Why...? seems like that's the way closest I can get to natural paths here in beautifull, desolate Finland. ^^
Like as you say iow: Prohibition 's a bitch & also you yourselves are not certain yet as to in quote, Mr S:A major caveat is that I'm not quite sure how things should be organized.
Though when you state: quote Mr S: just that I feel we're going about it decidedly the wrong way, and I hope you guys can follow.... Then these words completely resonate with me on a feeling basis too.^^
So besides of the prohibition thingy, What the fuck are we doing wrong and who could know? or give us a kick in the right direction?
My private thoughts on this?... Everything goes like it goes, and we'll figure it out somehow. I am glad though with your piece of input here above, as I sense you are up to something.
For now, I mainly let 'my creations' be maintained by nature itself, > inbreeding spot per individual spot , prolly to outcross the outcome of several spots later on & to be sown out over newly to be prepared prospective spots after a few generations of inbreeding.
Why...? seems like that's the way closest I can get to natural paths here in beautifull, desolate Finland. ^^
Yeah I couldn't agree more with that one bra...lol.. I have seen Subcools work and respect it he doesn't keep mom's at all he just takes cuttings from plants when they are ready/healthy and starts a plant he doesn't believe in keeping mom's so again he has a good point headband 707
Last edited:
LOL do you know why genetics drift LOL.. cause until you do I don't think I would be so quick to spout off at the mouth LOL.. BRA!!!Mr Sterling if you have noticed no drift whatsoever then why does it bother you that other do?? headband 707
OH the "SCIENTIFIC PAPER" was put up you must have missed it LOL...
Last edited:
Edit: I noticed you aimed your Q at Mr S, but this is what I would want to say on it.
OTH > Actually I don't know why genetics do drift and if they indeed do so at all. ( mind clearing me up H707? and I am not ironicly calling you out by any means. Honest!)
Just a piece of plain ignorance still on my behalf but what I do know is this: Quote of myself & kaka from a view pages back:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaka_ View Post
The cut he is talking about has to be the AE77 CaliO, it was 25 years old many years ago, its probably closer to 35 years old now or plus a few years.
Im sorry you've never grown it or you would know that Sub is being truthful here. There is a reason its survived so long, its just that damn good, so good that many hundreds of trusted gardeners have been gifted this clone via the boards over the years. I know Chimera even uses it in some of his crosses and he certainly wouldn't use it if it wasn't worthy.
Think about other cuts like original diesel and the real sourd cut, those plants are 20+ years old also.
OTH > You say it so I prolly will have to take your word on it.
I'd love to see this peticular clone beeing selfed in a couple of patches of huge sea of greens tho, only to breed them in for a couple of generations using the same principle but then with TRUE males and see what happens...
Wanna get my bet on what it will turn into instead of beeing dormant for prolly 35 years as you guessed?
OTH > Actually I don't know why genetics do drift and if they indeed do so at all. ( mind clearing me up H707? and I am not ironicly calling you out by any means. Honest!)
Just a piece of plain ignorance still on my behalf but what I do know is this: Quote of myself & kaka from a view pages back:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaka_ View Post
The cut he is talking about has to be the AE77 CaliO, it was 25 years old many years ago, its probably closer to 35 years old now or plus a few years.
Im sorry you've never grown it or you would know that Sub is being truthful here. There is a reason its survived so long, its just that damn good, so good that many hundreds of trusted gardeners have been gifted this clone via the boards over the years. I know Chimera even uses it in some of his crosses and he certainly wouldn't use it if it wasn't worthy.
Think about other cuts like original diesel and the real sourd cut, those plants are 20+ years old also.
OTH > You say it so I prolly will have to take your word on it.
I'd love to see this peticular clone beeing selfed in a couple of patches of huge sea of greens tho, only to breed them in for a couple of generations using the same principle but then with TRUE males and see what happens...
Wanna get my bet on what it will turn into instead of beeing dormant for prolly 35 years as you guessed?
The answer to that would be: They will turn into trees, larger and more vigorous than the original clone while more emphasis will be placed on all of the unmentioned disireble traits for that strain & on that peticular spot.
At some point I don't feel the need anylonger to finnish off with my notorious '^^'
Rite now, I can do with a feel like I have just said enough.
At some point I don't feel the need anylonger to finnish off with my notorious '^^'
Rite now, I can do with a feel like I have just said enough.
i just think that a number rating system is subjective, actually unhelpful in some ways and a little naive,, but ill give my two cents based off the results i have had from growing seeds and what my expectations were..
dutch passion 3/10
Greenhouse 4/10
paradise 7/10
magus 8/10
cannabiogen 9/10
ACE 9/10
DJ shorts 7/10
BOG 7/10
motarebel 8/10
Rez 8/10
karma 8/10
MNS 6/10
mosca negra 8/10
connoisseur 7.5/10
chimera 7.5/10
cali connection 7/10
reeferman 3/10
legends 8/10
spice of life 7.5/10
cannacopia 7/10
sssc 9/10
wally duck 7.5/10
Tom hill 7.5/10
$annie$ seeds 7.5/10
serious seeds 7/10
delicatessen seeds 7.5/10
grindhouse seeds 8/10
sam skunkman seeds 7/10
blazing pisteleros 7.5/10
dutchgrown 8/10
head seeds 8.5/10
DNA 7.5/10
esben 8/10
sensi seeds 3.5/10
nirvana 6.5/10
kc brains 6/10
fractal genetics 7.5/10
the vipers venom seeds 7/10
swan song seeds 7.5/10
bodhi seeds 7.5/10
hypro 8/10
emerald seeds 6.5/10
delta 9 labs 7.5/10
people under the stairs 7.5/10
grape vine seeds 7/10
spice bros 7.5/10
green lantern seeds 7.5/10
owls production seeds 7.5/10
sagarmartha 7/10
captain krypt 7.5/10
flying dutchmen 5/10
blue hemp 5/10
classic seeds 7.5/10
gage green seeds 7.5/10
bc bud depot 6/10
tropical seeds 7/10
OGA 7.5/10
totally subjective and some of these rating based on one pack of seeds, but that is all it takes to lose/win a customer for life... for most of them though i have grown out 2+ different crosses, alot of 7.5's there..
Mr.Sterling are you one of these guys that clones off of clones year after year and tells everyone it's all good?? LOL.. is this why your having such a hard time with this info?? get a grip bra...It's okay I don't have to buy your shit so it's all good,,,I know it's hard to wrap your head around and thats okay DON'T!!! headband 707
wow you rate magus over bodhi wow Thats crazy. If you dnt mind me asking what strains have you ran from bodhi? Imop bodhi is deff top 5 out their today and in my book num 1 but thats because I have ran a few strain from him all have stable and AAA dank but to each their own. Have you ever ran any of topdawgs gear b4 deff one you need to check out. Stardawg is truly an amazing strain those who I have seen run stardawg say its better than any of the original chem cuts. But like I said to each their own and everyone has different tastes. I just think its funny that you put delta9 and dna in the same category as my man bodhi because I deff think they are not even in the same league.
yeah dud x tresdawg and white dawg,, didnt feel like rating topdawg though till i pop the rest of them, quite a few other smaller guys i didnt want to rate until ive seen more..
bodhi i ran tigers milk (bk x appalacia) and chem 91 x talk of kabul,, so its not like ive gone through very many of his crosses..
ive rated everyone on totally different criteria because they cant be compared so its on what i expected and what i thought of what i got,, i expected nothing from magus but found warlock, double dutch and biddy early (outside) surprisingly good,, i expected alot from bodhi's offerings and they werent that stable or fun to grow, great ganja though otherwise,,
if i had categorised them based on what i would class them as bodhi would sit in a higher league for bringing very different genetics to the table which i appreciate alot more.. i still have his sky lotus an bk x paki sativa to run and a few more beans of the other two i mentioned.. i probably should have categorised them into leagues or divisions, breeders, semi-breeders, seed producers and clusterfuck pollen thieves lol.. but its all a bit contentious and personal when it gets too detailed..
to some i was being kind, to some slightely cruel, i dont think humans can help bias..
definitely to each thier own
Last edited:
