Rate the Breeders

[floralheart]

So......if reading correctly, you only grow from seed......not taking clones from said seed plants?

Cheers
StellarP

I clone my own stuff and make my own seeds.

Every time I've traded clones, eventually there is PM or mites.

Of ten years of growing off and on, the only time I ever had PM or mites was with acquiring clones, or letting someone into my grow space to "check it out".

Which I did twice with a childhood friend and a state legal grow.

That's why I don't want to go into anyone elses grow room, or have them come into mine - or use clones from other people.

 

[gingerale]

The root of the problem here is this is an illegal market. Truly exceptional individuals, i.e. capable of becoming a master breeder, are few and far between. The underground nature of this business limits the selection even further to those who are ambitious enough to risk potentially lengthy prison terms. In a legal market it's easy for individuals to come together and combine their talents in companies and partnerships to produce quality products. In an illegal market that is much more difficult.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s exceptional individuals traveled the globe looking for cannabis seeds to bring home and work with, or in some cases moved overseas to another country with more favorable laws which might allow a large plantation or greenhouse operation for breeding purposes. That's how we got all these good strains we've enjoyed to this day. Nowadays what do people do, besides sit on forums and bitch about how bad the seed choices are? This isn't rocket science; read the available literature, build or acquire a little greenhouse out in the country, and get to it guys.

One thing is for sure: when a void appears in the market, people will rush to fill it. There must be people reading this thread now who are thinking "hell, I could do that.." and who go on to breed the next big thing. So complain all you want guys but either lead, follow, or GTFO. Good seed is not hard to find and making more seed from that is not hard either.

 

[kaka_]

I am with you on that H707 but since Subcool claims the opposite (Like stressing that his 30 year old cloned material is still serving us as well as the day he took his first cuttings...), well, he either must have figured something that I never found myself or he is full of shit & hence do I feel better be somewhat wary of him and his stances. ^^

The cut he is talking about has to be the AE77 CaliO, it was 25 years old many years ago, its probably closer to 35 years old now or plus a few years.

Im sorry you've never grown it or you would know that Sub is being truthful here. There is a reason its survived so long, its just that damn good, so good that many hundreds of trusted gardeners have been gifted this clone via the boards over the years. I know Chimera even uses it in some of his crosses and he certainly wouldn't use it if it wasn't worthy.

Think about other cuts like original diesel and the real sourd cut, those plants are 20+ years old also.

 

[gingerale]

1,000th post!

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

I ask anyone with a more potent strain than the Tahoe to alert me immediately and let me know.

...

Haze, Triangle Kush, Bombthreat Bubba, just a few quick ones that come to mind, sheesh that wasnt to hard.

CBF

 

[Dr. Purpur]

The cut he is talking about has to be the AE77 CaliO, it was 25 years old many years ago, its probably closer to 35 years old now or plus a few years.

I have the AE77 CaliO mixed into one of the main strains I work with. People in Humboldt had it and did a couple crosses with it before I got ahold of it maybe 6 years ago. They had crossed it to a great Blueberry Father, making it Orange Crush, Then they took their best male of Orange Crush and pollenated an original old Red Label Salmon Creek Big Bud clone.
The seeds produced outstanding plants! Citrus, lemon , lime, carmel, chocolate, and everyone had trichomes like OG Kush. White out weed through a bong.

I crossed the Orange Crush to some antique Soma Lavender x Northern Lights. Then I crossed that offspring to an unknown Blue Kush plant. The Kush plant seeds were also from Humboldt. Plants were top shelf.

In the final cross, I took pollen from the from the Crush Lavender Lights Kush plant, and hit my favorite LA Confidential plant. The Crush Lavender Lights Blue Kush LA plants are growing outdoors right now and they are gorgeous! They smell like sweet fruity skunky, from several feet away and are not in bud yet.

I am also growing Nevils newest crosses. He sent me his best, and said to expect something off the charts.

Nevils my friend. so I guess He is my favorite breeder.

DP

 

[offthehook]

@ the above, I am offthehook already and I'm good. Tyvm.

The cut he is talking about has to be the AE77 CaliO, it was 25 years old many years ago, its probably closer to 35 years old now or plus a few years.

Im sorry you've never grown it or you would know that Sub is being truthful here. There is a reason its survived so long, its just that damn good, so good that many hundreds of trusted gardeners have been gifted this clone via the boards over the years. I know Chimera even uses it in some of his crosses and he certainly wouldn't use it if it wasn't worthy.

Think about other cuts like original diesel and the real sourd cut, those plants are 20+ years old also.

You say it so I prolly will have to take your word on it.

I'd love to see this peticular clone beeing selfed in a couple of patches of huge sea of greens tho, only to breed them in for a couple of generations using the same principle but then with TRUE males and see what happens...

Wanna get my bet on what it will turn into instead of beeing dormant for prolly 35 years as you guessed?

 

[MrSterling]

BOG's seeds are a whole lot more worked than simple F1s.

A word to new posters: threads like this on the ic, especially this subforum, are often filled with half-truths, myths accepted as science, and straight up lies everyone believes. The more time you spend here the more obvious some become and the deeper down the rabbit hole of superstition goes. First it's easy mistakes like "purple weed gets you higher", but then you find yourself in half truths like "purple weed is only purple because of temperature" and "Indicas do X, sativas do Y". Once you sort out the reality of that crap then you have people propagating myths about everything from the nature of clones, to breeders' stock and every topic you can imagine. There's so much good here on the ic, if you can sift through the bs. Most of this arguing about breeders and strains is done by armchair jockeys.

 

[ChemFrog]

how do YOU go about breeding YOUR own genetics... do YOU not use the genetics that were already bred by some other human being... and where do YOU get those genetics from?

did Shakespeare invent writing, did he invent the stage, did he act out all the parts? No, he relied upon the work of others to accomplish his visions... does the fact that many of the modern writings and theatre use shakespearian influences make them not true writers or thespians?

My point being, you cannot create anything new especially with genetics; one can only build upon the work that has been done before them to best shape it into something they desire and or change it into a more modern version.





^^^ it seems as if you are referring to certain breeders as polyhybrids, LOL...
Polyhybrid: you are using this word wrong; I can infer what you think it means and or what you are referring to, by the context in which you use it...


but since you are so very wise... maybe I could learn something from hearing your definition of Polyhybrids

Sorry to offend you mate, but do you feel like you fall into the category of polyhybrid? is that why you are angry lmfao

 

[ChemFrog]

there are other breeders here whos fanboys will jump on you hence why i dont mention names lol

I wish i hadnt mentioned names now, i got a fanboy on my case on this thread now lmao


I didnt know other seed vendors are fanboys of other seed makers here, just shows how polyhybrid sum seed makers are here lol

sorry to offend any Bs seed makers on here

 

[headband 707]

the weird thing to me is that i grew for 5 years in the 90's. 3 years from a clone source then two years from 2 packs of seeds. northern lights and 4 way from mark emery. the plants were awesome back then. i had a friend who would harvest with me and every time he would pull a bud off the the plant and stick it to the wall and say thats good bud if it sticks to the wall. i used to hate that he did that.

4 years ago i decided to start growing again. i was shocked at all the selections but i still did my research. i figured things must have gotten better. boy have i been surprised. i figured just get a pack of seeds and the weed will be good like in the 90's. i dont know what the fuck has happened. my setup is ten times better but the weed has been subpar. i dont go through a bunch of seeds in fact only 4 strains and about 60 seeds since i started back up. maybe thats my problem. super lemon haze from greenhouse is the only strain with pheonos that have passed the stick to the wall test. maybe i was just lucky in the 90's. but boy now i appreciate the stick to the wall test.

AMEN to that lol.. so sad and yet so true .. headband 707

 

[headband 707]

where's penn & teller when you need them?
breeders and dispensaries would make a damn good episode of bullshit!

Now that's true lol....
So lets breaks this one down if your or anyone is a breeder.. You have a place and it's how big is your first problem?
Then your second problem is when you plant and what you plant and what comes into bloom and what time LOL LOL LOL.. Now this is really fun.. As not all things that are great come into bloom when you want and unless your Sam the Skunkman your not going to have a really great lab to pick and choose perhaps the way these guys might be able to. A great breeder will cull shit of his/her grow and only let the best grow and others don't have this capablity which is why you maybe finding less then perfect genetics. headband 707

 

[offthehook]

Quote: A great breeder will cull shit of his/her grow and only let the best grow and others don't have this capablity which is why you maybe finding less then perfect genetics. headband 707


^^ And even this is per definition not true at all times... besides, some of the essence of genetics is based ON inperfection^^ (assumed there is any value in defining the word 'perfection' at all)

Once you got your strain established this way, Then nothing will be more healthy for your strain as to leave it all to the Nature. Please do not underestimate the power of Diversity & Divinity.

Believe/understand it or not, There is a chanse in this Universe that ALL just must be happening for a reason. ^^


(And if I were no Atheist I'd be the fucking Creator of this funny fairytale myself, so please don't bother or get me all stirred up on thatone, flmao. )

 

[RedDirtWarrior]

From what ive grown

KC Brains..... 10 (outdoor)
Cannabiogen...8
Karma......8
Paradise..... 8 ... but declinining
Serious..... 8.... improving with Magus stuff
DJshort.....8
sagmartha.....7
DPassion.....7
HomegrownFantaseeds.....7
Eva Seeds.....7
High Quality.....7
Soma.....7
Dinafem.....7
Barneys..... 7
GHS..... 7
DNA.... 7
Reserva p..... 7
Royal Queen.....7
Sweetseeds......7
Next Generation....7
Sensi..... 6....Started at 9
Mr. Nice.......6
Thseeds......6
Dr. Atomic....5
Tom Hill.....5
Nirvana.....5
Reeferman.....4

its funny you rate KC brains so highly, TBH, he has some of THE BEST genetics.... for outdoors. THE BEST PERIOD.

I hear 90% bad stuff about kc brains. His germ rates are low, often times deformed/crappy plants. But this is because of the way he breeds, there is nothing wrong with it, it just takes more selection.

Out of a pack of 10, you are likely to find a good keeper. GOOGLE kc brains, and find some of his plants, that have actually grown out, they are incredible, it is just hard to find a good pheno in one of his packs, but when you find that pheno you will realize how talented and mis-represented kc brains is, a truly genius breeder stuck in a time of ignorance.

I am gonna go ahead and reccomend ACE seeds, but thats is only because of the type of growing I do.

I grow outdoors in hawaii, guerilla, and I need a good subtropical strain (sativa) ACE specializes in making sativas, and they do a very good job at it.

Look up their golden tiger, malawi X meao thai. Stunning plant of incredible potency, a grail strain. am growing them outdoors now, in crappy soil under the hawaiian sun and they THRIVE.

ACE is top-tier genetics for SATIVA genetics, they also have GREAT landraces and just a few indicas that I have never tried.

 

[MrSterling]

These rankings are really just too subjective and personal. We have no guidelines. If we're talking stability and uniformity out of a strain, breeders like TomHill, ACE, Cannabiogen, or BOG should be near the top. They are lines which have been worked extensively. If stability were the guide DJ Short would be at the bottom of the list. If we're talking about absolutely who produces absolutely fantabulous keeper plants, DJ Short would be way higher up on a list. You have to work to find his magic, but it's definitely there. BOG as well, if you're unfamiliar with the monsters his seeds produce you should mosey on down to his subforum and familiarize yourself, because they yield like no other.

Personally, ethics plays into my ranking. I don't want anything to do with a firm like Barney's which just pumps out new strains year after year like car models. There's no way a company can properly test or stabilize that many lines. I'm not saying they're bad people, or that it's even their fault - they're just players in the market. There isn't much any of us can do about changing the market either, except to not patronize the big seed producers commercializing pot. It's not that making money off seeds is wrong, but can you imagine this level of advertising stupidity with normal garden seeds? Fuck the way companies like Barney's, Mr. Nice and Greenhouse end up manipulating and changing our scene fighting amongst each other for market share and money. We have people who spend time on this forum squabbling amongst each other because of GH & Mr. Nice's rivalry - two companies have successfully gotten more business by publicly advertising their arguments. We might as well waste time arguing over Coke or Pepsi.

I like Dinafem, regardless of whether their genetics are their own or not. All the Dinafem herb that's come my way has been great, and their prices are reasonable compared to others. Breeders deserve to make money from the sweat of their labour, but the egalitarian in me approves of a company willing to spread good genetics for less money.

Cannabiogen and ACE top my list though. Homogeneity is unavoidable in almost any market, but both these seed banks are swimming against the tide of muddled hybrids and "kushes". Their strains are unique, tested, and worked. They work in conjunction producing strains at times, and that's pretty gnarly to me. Their prices are decent and do right by their customers. CBG's Peyote Purple is pretty much feminized, around 95% female, but because of that 5% male Kaiki sells you ten seeds at regular seed prices. I can't think of anyone else standing behind their gear like that. Both Kaiki and Dubi have a genuine passion for breeding and for making attempts to preserve "heirloom" varieties and styles. [Now there's a lot of bs to the whole "saving heirlooms" movement going on right now in both herb and general gardening. We treat strains like they're unique individual species - you've heard people talking about wanting to save "X Strain" before it's "wiped out" by "Commercial Seed Growers" or "Big Pharma" or "The Government" as if it's a species of duck going extinct forever. Older varieties are always at risk of being lost, and they are worth saving, but the dialog has been blown out of proportion I feel.]

 

[offthehook]

Nice read MrS, but in the end everyone does what suits them best ofc.

Some prolly nééd save that one last duck variety otherwise it would n't be for you to stress about. lol

 

[Infinitesimal]

Sorry to offend you mate, but do you feel like you fall into the category of polyhybrid? is that why you are angry lmfao

I don't understand you... so no worries about offending me bro... LOL. Again what do you mean by Polyhybrid?

and believe me Trolls like you(click it) don't make me angry... you fools are entertainment... plus you guys are usually so retarded it gives me a perfect platform to share my thoughts by correcting your ignorance, and other people get a kick out of it too... believe me its funny!

To be honest this place has been a bit lacking in Trolls since REZ has been away anyway... and it feels good to scrape a little shit off the bottom of my shoe

I wish i hadnt mentioned names now, i got a fanboy on my case on this thread now lmao


I didnt know other seed vendors are fanboys of other seed makers here, just shows how polyhybrid sum seed makers are here lol

sorry to offend any Bs seed makers on here

...
Hardcore Facepalm... Fool; Fanboy... really? what are you talking about, what do you know? I just called you on your Bull Shit and the fact that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about, and therefore shouldn't be posting in a public forum as if you did especially when you are just Flaming... and you think pulling the "Fanboy" card in some way makes you impervious to logic LOL... well no it just keeps you ignorant.

That is about as rational and original as these...
...
LOL... So even if I was a big fan of CSG, which I'm not particularly, ^^^ that doesn't change the fact that you look stupid as all hell.

Do you actually know what it takes to be a breeder?

well first of all you have breed your own genetics and this doesnt apply to sum one who just throw pollen on elite cuts lmfao

Haha chemfrog, do you have anymore breeding gold to bestow upon us?

 

[lost in a sea]

i think anyone wanting to save a particular genetic line of ganja is jumping the gun a little,, the control, "ownership", will be of cannabis in general, they wont patent one line over another because their all mostly mongrels anyway..

too many loud mouth idiots in the ganja world,, its a plant that is illegal in most places and like gingerale rightly said the plant attracts criminals and cowboys unlike any other,, the spanish breeders have taken it seriously for a long time now and should be more the example of what to do imo..

to some its just a game..

 

[MrSterling]

Nice read MrS, but in the end everyone does what suits them best ofc.

Some prolly nééd save that one last duck variety otherwise it would n't be for you to stress about. lol

You've entirely missed the point. I was saying that our "strains" aren't unique like individual species, but people treat them like they are, and that the amount of concern put into saving a strain is out of line with reality.

 

[offthehook]

Whose reality and what does that reality stand for?

Quote Mr S: I was saying that our "strains" aren't unique like individual species, but people treat them like they are, (...)

OTH > Any urge to wanna elaborate on that so I won't be missing the point next time?

2 Questions comming up right away 1 > By what standards are strains not unique like individual species?

2 > Any wild guess on WHY ppl are treating them like individual species?

My wildest guess would be, some ppl like small horses tho others better like tall pony's ?