question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[Raho]

20 some years ago after Mr nice was set up and Nev gave shanti his plants we saw Greenhouse seeds run out of stock and stop selling seed in 2000/2001 i think it was then only start to re sell seed after Franco joined GHS and they bought f1s from a mr nice seed wholesaler.
We started to see Sensi seed grow reports of poor quality yet people growing mr nice seed reported quality after quality grows from the start of it selling seed.
The only person to have Nevs cuts was Sensi and Mr nice now assuming the quality of Sensi seed decline indicated loss of parent plants that left Mr nice with Nevs parental library.
So 20 years later we now see alleged plants from Nevs parental library starting to surface how is this possible if only Mr nice and Sensi had them ?.

It's not 20 years later . . .Sammy has had some of Nev's cuts for at least 10 years. He offered them to Nev on MNS in 2010 when Nev came back:

Hey Nevil,
Thanks for yr replies and info.
Really appreciate it.
What a shame you lost the Haze A male so soon...
If you ever need the next best thing, you know where to find it...
The boys in Holland say hello and hope you'll come and visite some day, especially J.
Regards,
Y. Sam

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/72173-post332.html

But Nev had an exciting life, including an arrest in 1990.
During this time, at least some of his other elite gear escaped into the wild.

I had a back crossed line of NL5, 8 back crosses. After I got out of jail they were gone. I don't know what happened to them. Marcel probably sold Rimmeo some of them. It was the closest to NL5 in seed form. It's another of my projects that I never got to finish. It stil irks me.
N.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/81225-post10.html

Who's to say other things besides NL#5 IBL seeds didn't escape from the vault at that time?
We weren't there care-taking the plants. We don't know how many people Nev trusted, gifted, or shared with out of desperation during those tumultuous years.
We simply don't know. Acting like we do is lying to ourselves.

 

[RoyalFlush]

It's not 20 years later . . .Sammy has had some of Nev's cuts for at least 10 years. He offered them to Nev on MNS in 2010 when Nev came back:

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/72173-post332.html

But Nev had an exciting life, including an arrest in 1990.
During this time, at least some of his other elite gear escaped into the wild.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/81225-post10.html

Who's to say other things besides NL#5 IBL seeds didn't escape from the vault at that time?
We weren't there care-taking the plants. We don't know how many people Nev trusted, gifted, or shared with out of desperation during those tumultuous years.
We simply don't know. Acting like we do is lying to ourselves.

The 89 NL#5 are supposedly Nevil's NL#5 bx8

 

[Raho]

The 89 NL#5 are supposedly Nevil's NL#5 bx8

Who's 89 NL#5 are you talking about RF?
Sounds like a story I want to believe.


Rimmeo didn't have any left when he was around, and nobody else was stepping up saying they got them from Nev when he was alive and could confirm it.

 

[@hempy]

while i dont always see eye to eye with eb hempy ,
in this instance i would ,


you also believed nevil collected some haze himself directly from the haze brothers ,
so id be questioning the way you gather information man ,
it doesnt always pay off for you and you go off on a tangent on the wrong advice ,
specially given your quite pig headed , stubborn and dogmatic ...

The debate conversation keeps jumping around who posted the Haze brothers magazine interviews and pictures of the haze flowers they grew that would be me.


No one here has shown me proof that any of these cuts are the clones of the parent lines Neville used to create the hybrids.


All i have seen so far is a guy called J gave Y Sam hybrids.


NLxHZ was a big seller won the cup in 88 lots grew F1s of the strain how many did Nev sell i would say many Kg of them all over the world.

The NLxHZ was an F1 plant selected from god knows how many seed but lots of F1 seed was sold also.Did some one find a plant like the F1 Nev and Ben had then Shanti moneys on yes they did any one find a better example moneys is on yes to that also.But is it going to do the same when hit with HZC highly unlikely.


It really is a simply argument if the Clone came From Nev or Ben then its Real if it did not then its not.I can find out who J and Brenda was if you like and see if they did have the Original clone ?.I asked if the clone was from Nev the response was if it came from Nev or Ben yes it is if not no.

 

[Elmer Bud]

Brenda !?? LOL

Fckin Breda [reading comprehension is a gift eh ? ] The town in Sthn Netherlands . Known as a place for old school Haze hybrids .
Trouble is unless you have a Dutch passport they won`t serve you . Been there , done that .

The cuts I know were made by the people who held them , when they were partners / neighbors with Nevil .Long before Benny Dronkers got involved .

 

[Donald Mallard]

The debate conversation keeps jumping around who posted the Haze brothers magazine interviews and pictures of the haze flowers they grew that would be me.


No one here has shown me proof that any of these cuts are the clones of the parent lines Neville used to create the hybrids.


All i have seen so far is a guy called J gave Y Sam hybrids.


NLxHZ was a big seller won the cup in 88 lots grew F1s of the strain how many did Nev sell i would say many Kg of them all over the world.

The NLxHZ was an F1 plant selected from god knows how many seed but lots of F1 seed was sold also.Did some one find a plant like the F1 Nev and Ben had then Shanti moneys on yes they did any one find a better example moneys is on yes to that also.But is it going to do the same when hit with HZC highly unlikely.


It really is a simply argument if the Clone came From Nev or Ben then its Real if it did not then its not.I can find out who J and Brenda was if you like and see if they did have the Original clone ?.I asked if the clone was from Nev the response was if it came from Nev or Ben yes it is if not no.

man you have been around long enough to know just cause u didnt see it or hear of it

didnt mean it hasnt happened ,


a bunch of us grew c5 in oz ,
believe it or not we dont really care to be honest ,
we know what we did and what we had ...



you can formulate another one of your conspiracy theories if you want ,
bit like you didnt believe what nevil said to me on the phone about the female haze ,
but you werent there were you , so of course it never happened right??

gee hempy , come on now man get with it seriously ...

 

[@hempy]

man you have been around long enough to know just cause u didnt see it or hear of it

didnt mean it hasnt happened ,


a bunch of us grew c5 in oz ,
believe it or not we dont really care to be honest ,
we know what we did and what we had ...



you can formulate another one of your conspiracy theories if you want ,
bit like you didnt believe what nevil said to me on the phone about the female haze ,
but you werent there were you , so of course it never happened right??

gee hempy , come on now man get with it seriously ...

What you fail to get is i asked Neville's friend who was there and i posted what he told me and he saw the selections of NLxHZc and grew lots of it also. I can ask if he knows J but i also asked Neville about the so called Cuts.


If they came from set people they were the selected f1 plant Nev used for breeding if not then there from F1 seed its not complicated.

I Personally think one of the most under valued strains few seam to even bring up when people talk about Dutch worked genetics that gives a soaring sativa high is Kali Mist by simon.


I Grew some of the early Karli mist and i would put that up against any Haze or haze hybrid on the market.

 

[Elmer Bud]

I Personally think one of the most under valued strains few seam to even bring up when people talk about Dutch worked genetics that gives a soaring sativa high is Kali Mist by simon.


I Grew some of the early Karli mist and i would put that up against any Haze or haze hybrid on the market.

Straw man
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[Dr. Purpur]

There is a lot you don’t remember , There is more you don’t know

Like I said you have never posted useful or accurate information regarding Haze and it’s origins

It’s hard to believe you had personal contact with Nevil
Yet you know nothing

Post from Nevil below


Another post from Nev

Good to see you Herb!




I used to speak to Nevil often on Skype, after meeting him on MNS forum. He did mention Hempy. He liked Hempy.


One thing Ive been thinking about....


Nevil told me he bought a bunch of seed from SamS, and paid him well for them. He also said the germination rate was very low, I think because the seeds were old when he got them. Don't misunderstand me. He wasn't complaining at all.


From my own experience,.... Ive noticed that in old seeds, certain seeds germ, and many others don't. Its like certain genetics of seed have a longer shelf life then others.


Following that train of thought, there may have been a shelf life bottle neck from Nevil. Many genetic strains he got from SamS may not have germed
Its just something Ive pondered from time to time

 

[Donald Mallard]

What you fail to get is i asked Neville's friend who was there and i posted what he told me and he saw the selections of NLxHZc and grew lots of it also. I can ask if he knows J but i also asked Neville about the so called Cuts.


If they came from set people they were the selected f1 plant Nev used for breeding if not then there from F1 seed its not complicated.

I Personally think one of the most under valued strains few seam to even bring up when people talk about Dutch worked genetics that gives a soaring sativa high is Kali Mist by simon.


I Grew some of the early Karli mist and i would put that up against any Haze or haze hybrid on the market.

yep what ever man ,
your so dogmatic ,
and so closed to any new ideas ,
even though you been proven wrong on some of the dogma youve spouted and held onto so tightly ...


might pay you to keep an open mind

but your too old and pig headed,
what do they say about old dogs??



last comment im making to you ,
enjoy man , never know u might be right one day ,
but today is not that day ,, lol ...

 

[Raho]

Nevil and Hempy were friends, that's a fact.

I'm glad Nev had some old friends around to talk to in his last year. Must have been comforting to know there were people who knew his story, understood his struggles, and swore to remember and honor the impact of his life.
Don't let yourself get too concerned about getting people to see things your way on this stuff Hempy.
In the end, it just doesn't matter.
You've done a good job presenting things they way you see them. It's up to the other people to accept/agree or not at this point. Time will be the judge of who's version of things is closest to what happened.

You seem different from the guy I remember at MNS and I'm glad. Maybe it's just a better situation.

My advice would be: Don't make it your job to do what you used to do for Shanti, and enjoy your return.

Shanti doesn't care, and Nev is floating on a cloud of Haze smoke plucking stairway to heaven on a golden harp ;-)

 

[@hempy]

yep what ever man ,
your so dogmatic ,
and so closed to any new ideas ,
even though you been proven wrong on some of the dogma youve spouted and held onto so tightly ...


might pay you to keep an open mind

but your too old and pig headed,
what do they say about old dogs??



last comment im making to you ,
enjoy man , never know u might be right one day ,
but today is not that day ,, lol ...

Find us the proof they are clones from Neville's parental line any one can make claims on line what is it Shanti would say an empty drum makes the most noise.


Personally i would like to see the old haze that went into these lines still around even in Y Sams hands and other peoples.



I have a person i can ask and verify the story if you like i was not there or were you Nev i have asked and i also asked Nevs friend that was there.


You assume i am wrong on things how about you stick to the conversation and stop with the insults i guess some things stay the same ha.

 

[@hempy]

Nevil and Hempy were friends, that's a fact.

I'm glad Nev had some old friends around to talk to in his last year. Must have been comforting to know there were people who knew his story, understood his struggles, and swore to remember and honor the impact of his life.
Don't let yourself get too concerned about getting people to see things your way on this stuff Hempy.
In the end, it just doesn't matter.
You've done a good job presenting things they way you see them. It's up to the other people to accept/agree or not at this point. Time will be the judge of who's version of things is closest to what happened.

You seem different from the guy I remember at MNS and I'm glad. Maybe it's just a better situation.

My advice would be: Don't make it your job to do what you used to do for Shanti, and enjoy your return. Shanti doesn't care, and Nev is floating on a cloud of Haze smoke playing stairway to heaven on a golden harp ;-)

Racho i use to talk to Nev Daily we chatted about life breeding all types of things that is what people do. I heard the story's the highs the lows many times also.


Lots of people think i am squarely in Nevs corner well i liked the guy he was a friend but i will always support the side of right or try to.


This Nev and Sam side thing is bull shit every one knows Sam took Haze to the Dam like Sam or not he played a huge roll in this



The truth or facts as we know it is what is important not if i or you are right.



NLxHZ had to came from Ben or it came from Nev its not complicated.

 

[Raho]

Guess we can all see where this is going . . .

I tried @hempy.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Ther wer people who looked after nevils plants wen he was in jail before ben had took over...even kees from sssc was given a clone by nevil...just like the g13 clone has popped up from somewhere other than ben or shanti so will others...even greenhouse managed to get the cup winning super silver haze clone an nevils haze clone...nevil did an put out alot of things...whether these clones are the breeding clones or just f1 seed the point is we need to look after them as the original f1's are getting very rare an probably never will be made again in the exact same way nevil did.

 

[Dr.Young]

We should all respect each other...
Thought we were potheads... mellow souls...
We should treasure each other and not put importance on ourselves but the plants ..
Free the haze

 

[harvestreaper]

question for the haze experts ,,were does oldtimers haze fit into all this i hear its not from sams stock ,,anyone know? has sam commented on it ? any comparisons been made to seedsmans t hills etc

 

[JohnnyChicago]

any comparisons been made to seedsmans

 

[harvestreaper]

that was quick ,,,nice one johny that an oldtimers ?

 

[SUPER_HAZE]

According to dubi and phylos old timers it is a Colombian variety.

It comes from a British grower. Old timer received the seeds of hippie travelers. If I'm not mistaken, shantibaba received 40 seeds and another 40 went to kaiki-ace seeds.

As Mad Mac says it is a much more wild and less worked variety than original Haze and Tom Hill. Is it related to original haze? It is difficult to know without genetic analysis. Original haze is a Colombian hybrid but it doesn't have to be the same variety as old timers. In Colombia there were many different varieties.

Some people prefer a variety and other people others. It is best to try if you have a chance. : tiphat:

I hope to try Tom Hill and original Haze soon.