question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[Dr.Young]

Id like to find my ideal haze... to see which i prefer in terp and buzz .... still not sure... tried a wide range of haze that all had the signature incense.....
Im thinking purple, or silver teal bluegreen haze is what i like....
Most important to me is that incense smell, and nuclear body glow, and burning red eye... pineal gland empowerment... like caffeine that melts away all worries soothing mind body and soul.
Ill be able to compare Ohaze, tomhillhaze, and purphaze kalichina soon
Hoping for that ultrathin soft stem chalky incense pine goodness like i found in nigerian mangohaze... the nigerian has ties to greenhaze

 

[Benny106]

I feel better now, thanks for the TomHill quotes.

 

[SUPER_HAZE]

Each person can say a different opinion. Without genetic analysis we will never know.

 

[funkyhorse]

Each person can say a different opinion. Without genetic analysis we will never know.

The problem with genetic analysis is that it is done by PHD's in bullshitism
We have seen more than once how all the genetic analysis are unreliable done by doctors with more interests in the customers pockets rather than in true scientific results



I am also seeing people care much more about organoleptics than for the quality of high, in the 20th century what was important was the quality of high and not the taste or smells


The only way to properly test it is doing a side by side grow on the same tent greenhouse or outdoor environment which is not affected by commercial interests
And I believe such a test will only apply to your local environment because plants change a lot out of their natural environments


So, what is the right way to test it? What is best for most in an international forum or what is best for you in your own environment?

 

[@hempy]

I think the questions around haze have been answered long ago put simply it was a strain created by growers not breeders. It was a unstable line and a line that could only be fully grown out it set latitudes.



Sam took it to Europe Neville hybridized it and at best offered a 75% haze that people also love.



Did haze in pure form make it out of the California going by records from the Royal commissions in Australia yes it did threw the Mafia.




Who do we have to thank for haze making it this far down the road and ending up in peoples gardens even in hybrids form well Sam for talking it to Europe were it was a legal Environment so it could be worked on.


Nev took it to a more modern direction and haze from the very start just continued to evolve each generation.


Can Haze be reproduced from scratch today no it can not.


Can some one create a sativa line that follows the path of haze yes they can but will that line be the same as haze highly unlikely.

 

[Dr.Young]

I think in those cases the haze would be like saying congolese equivalent of haze.. throwin a location onto a vibe... kinda like how most kushes arent kush...

A big thing with haze is... the rare incense terpene that is a signature stamp... if that incense thing was specifically a Columbian isolated trait ... it would be easier to stop the word haze... and make it Columbian...
But it seems that people mention thai with incense, etc... Im not experienced in that yet, i can only dream for now of sampling some punto rojo, mangobiche, wackyweed, lumbo gold, etc.... to thai, vietnamese, laos, burmese, etc...
Id like to have a grip on a few fundamental experiences to recognize patterns or distinctions between areas.... thats the goal...
But yeah... id love to hear some opinions and experiences with different landrace areas and terpene signatures from the different areas...
Maybe even what is the key terpene for the incense/haze signature....
Terpinolene...pinene.....guaoil...cymene....myrcene

Many things could be simplified to start gaining ground and helping each other move to a new standard of living/growing/breeding.

 

[zachrockbadenof]

When I am requesting a clean-up on isle 9 due to my mind being split open, or am afraid to drive my car high on a decent sample (4 hours after smoking it) - all perspective is put in its proper place."[/I]

now that's B.S. - while i am not the 'GURU' that sammy or thill are, i've been smokin for 45+ years - n weed that keeps u high for 4hrs...or even 3... sorry ... gotta call it B.S.

will say the there is no weed today that can compare with late 60's /early 70's columbian/Jamaican/ even some mex... but what do i know...

 

[dank.frank]

Cuban Black Haze x (A5 Haze x Miracle Thai) ie Baindaid Haze.

Best modern hybrid haze recreation that I am personally aware of. Doc D Seeds, I think. He worked with other sativa lines as well. Worth looking into if that is your thing.



dank.Frank

 

[TheDarkStorm]

There was stuff around that would easily go 3 or four hours an thats a fact...infact thers probably a 1 or 2 lines still around that can achive this..yes its hard to find that in the commercial scene..and it seems to be one of the major problems right now an maybe has been for the last 20 years as things seem to be moving further an further away from that..infact its become so rare now that ppl believe it to be a myth..

 

[@hempy]

.

will say the there is no weed today that can compare with late 60's /early 70's columbian/Jamaican/ even some mex... but what do i know...

I use to think that also up until i tried my first haze hybrid that changed my mind it surprised me.


Unlike the cannabis now what we grew was stable you knew what you were growing and what you would end up after harvest.


The modern seen well what i call modern is the Dutch seen came the birth of hybridized unstable genetics.I know it sounds bad but what else can you call hybridized genetics that throws out so many expressive genes that you cant stabilize a line ?.



But with in these hybrids you find gems and the people willing to go on a search take the time to grow out x amount of seed you are rewarded with something special.


The only positive evaluation i have seen in the industry in years is the direction some are going in collecting old school landraces or if you like strains found in specific locations and making them valuable to people that want them.

 

[funkyhorse]

There was stuff around that would easily go 3 or four hours an thats a fact...infact thers probably a 1 or 2 lines still around that can achive this..yes its hard to find that in the commercial scene..and it seems to be one of the major problems right now an maybe has been for the last 20 years as things seem to be moving further an further away from that..infact its become so rare now that ppl believe it to be a myth..

Back in 20th century there was stuff that a needle smoked between 3-4 people would be getting them totally out of this world for 3-4 hours, it was a mild entheogen with synesthesic capabilities. This is what DEA is/was fighting about with a lot of paraquat all around the world, this type of marihuana was a big menace and a very dangerous drug.

The result today is we see washed out genetics without any decent high and plenty of organoleptics beying acceptable for societies and marketed as if it would be LSD...

 

[funkyhorse]

I use to think that also up until i tried my first haze hybrid that changed my mind it surprised me.


Unlike the cannabis now what we grew was stable you knew what you were growing and what you would end up after harvest.


The modern seen well what i call modern is the Dutch seen came the birth of hybridized unstable genetics.I know it sounds bad but what else can you call hybridized genetics that throws out so many expressive genes that you cant stabilize a line ?.



But with in these hybrids you find gems and the people willing to go on a search take the time to grow out x amount of seed you are rewarded with something special.


The only positive evaluation i have seen in the industry in years is the direction some are going in collecting old school landraces or if you like strains found in specific locations and making them valuable to people that want them.

Hempy, I used to think like you that dutch genetics were lower quality than landraces. I now realize I smoked landraces all my life


Today I am growing landraces and dutch hybrids side by side to see if I was right or wrong.


I must say I am biased because I have tested on all my trips landraces and to my taste they were far superior to dutch varieties. I had the luck to test middle east, european and south american varieties at the same time at their land of origin



I also must say that when I was in Netherlands last year I was suggested by a very famous pollen extracting company workers that are around my age and are dutch and have seen the same scene I have seen in the 80's in Holland that the best old school seedbank is KC Brains and not Mr Nice...they dont have any interest when they suggest something.

They have seen all the junkies thrown out in the streets and the same Amsterdam 80's decadence as me


In my experience as a consumer, landraces are superior to hybrids in terms of quality of high. If you are looking for productivity, that is something else and probably hybrids will give you a better productivity

 

[willydread]

Kc brains is a top!

 

[bigherb]

That is the result of the misinformation about the pedigree of haze (Colombian, Mexican, Thai, South Indian.)
People assumed that the way to create a new or different haze was to combine a bunch of different extreme sativas, when in fact the version of Sam's "Haze" that made the line famous was genetics all from one country.


I think Cannabiogen should be praised for avoiding the temptation to call their Destroyer line a haze. In 2011 when they released that hybrid (or at least when charlie made the strain post about it here), nobody was calling Haze "Colombian."

I agree with this post

With the exception of the last sentence


1luvbigherb

 

[@hempy]

I agree with this post

With the exception of the last sentence


1luvbigherb

BigHerb so do you agree with what Rob Clark posted or is that a lie ?.

If you agree with Rob then haze was not a pure Colombian to start with.



Original Haze is a pure sativa stabilized hybrid arising from crossing all of the best females with a male of a different imported sativa variety each year. Starting with Colombian/ Mexican hybrids grown from seeds from the first crop, a South Indian male plant was used as a pollen source the second year, and a Thai male plant was used the third year. Depending on which year Haze seeds were collected, they resembled either Colombian, South Indian, or Thai plants. Original Haze varies in taste from citrus Thai notes through the gamut of sativa highlights to the deep spicy purple Colombian flavor most common in Dutch Haze cultivars. Although Haze has been available in the Netherlands since the early 1980s, it gained wide popularity only in the mid 1990s. Increasing levels of connoisseurship led to higher prices for exotic and flavorful (but later maturing and more costly to produce) Haze hybrids in preference to the redundant plethora of Dutch Skunk/Northern Lights type buds. Original Haze presently makes up part of about 15 percent of varieties available in the Netherlands, and its frequency is steadily increasing.


Origins of the Species -Rob Clark https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/origins-of-the-species.81271/

 

[bigherb]

BigHerb so do you agree with what Rob Clark posted or is that a lie ?.

If you agree with Rob then haze was not a pure Colombian to start with.



Original Haze is a pure sativa stabilized hybrid arising from crossing all of the best females with a male of a different imported sativa variety each year. Starting with Colombian/ Mexican hybrids grown from seeds from the first crop, a South Indian male plant was used as a pollen source the second year, and a Thai male plant was used the third year. Depending on which year Haze seeds were collected, they resembled either Colombian, South Indian, or Thai plants. Original Haze varies in taste from citrus Thai notes through the gamut of sativa highlights to the deep spicy purple Colombian flavor most common in Dutch Haze cultivars. Although Haze has been available in the Netherlands since the early 1980s, it gained wide popularity only in the mid 1990s. Increasing levels of connoisseurship led to higher prices for exotic and flavorful (but later maturing and more costly to produce) Haze hybrids in preference to the redundant plethora of Dutch Skunk/Northern Lights type buds. Original Haze presently makes up part of about 15 percent of varieties available in the Netherlands, and its frequency is steadily increasing.


Origins of the Species -Rob Clark https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/origins-of-the-species.81271/

Hempy

Long time no see

You are very aware of my opinion

If you forgot my True origins of Haze article , my feelings have remained . I believe Santa Cruz original Haze was Punto Rojo bagseeds crossed to itself

I wouldn’t call RCC a liar , he was not there for the birth / Origins of the Original Haze . The same as Sams the same as myself . Sams knows the originator G and his partner RL . Soo Sams has the best insight of anyone online today . The story I shared came from a Apprentice/ friend of G . But Sams has confirmed my version and Added to it . I’m unclear why you still believe the Four way sativa story

I’ve answered your question , I’m hoping you can answer mine from some post back . What can you tell us about the last work Nevil did on his Haze project and who will be releasing it ?


1luvbigherb

 

[herbgreen]

It seems up until couple years ago? was Colombian/mex w/south indian and thai

RCC must have told that way a few times and it looks like even published that way...

Also, I think I remember a part to the story where Sam has given the haze bros the thai and south indian

It could be that's what is considered the hybrid years or later manifestations of haze

I ran across a few posts that seem to infer thai or colombian leaning bloodlines to the haze in general by Sam

And one crazy post that even refers to the CBG destroyer !

...but you need to read all that in the greater context of the thread so check the links

Post # 1040

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAZE BROTHERS BY FARMER GREEN Grow American, #63, November 1980
Using seeds from their favorite imported smoke, the Haze brothers came out with “Purple Haze’ “Golden Haze”

So the Original Haze was Punto Rojo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
It was not purple Colombian, it was Original Haze with Colombian bloodlines.

Ah, so Punto Rojo x what? “Golden Haze” - Oaxacan or Santa Marta de Oro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
It had several Colombian lines like Santa Marta Gold, Wacky weed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
To be honest the purple Hazes were maybe stronger but not as clear or as up and high. I liked the lime greens with maybe a bit of Thai blood.

There you go big herb, you can cross some Thai with your Punto Rojo x Oaxacan, to give it clarity, something like Charlie Garcia did with Destroyer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
The Original Hazes never did have much hermis, maybe the Haze with Thai bloodlines had a few. We just never used hermis for breeding period.
They also traditionally gave 60-70 % the plants female, the sex ratio was not 50/50.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
Wild Sativas and Sativas cultivated for for sinsemilla like Thai have hermi problems, old time Colombian and mexican of the highest quality did not have hermi problems like you talk about.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=104

Post # 943

Quote:
FYI,
Burning Bush was an Original Haze with a strong Thai influence. I named it.
There were only Two Haze Brothers and they did not go to NYC and visit HT.
Joe Haze is not a Haze brother. The Haze Brothers did not grow Indica's, they grew Sativa's.
They did grow my Skunk #1 after 1980, because it was easier and faster for them.
-SamS (who was there)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=95



x

 

[@hempy]

Hempy

Long time no see

You are very aware of my opinion

If you forgot my True origins of Haze article , my feelings have remained . I believe Santa Cruz original Haze was Punto Rojo bagseeds crossed to itself

I wouldn’t call RCC a liar , he was not there for the birth / Origins of the Original Haze . The same as Sams the same as myself . Sams knows the originator G and his partner RL . Soo Sams has the best insight of anyone online today . The story I shared came from a Apprentice/ friend of G . But Sams has confirmed my version and Added to it . I’m unclear why you still believe the Four way sativa story

I’ve answered your question , I’m hoping you can answer mine from some post back . What can you tell us about the last work Nevil did on his Haze project and who will be releasing it ?


1luvbigherb

I read your article i also read the many before yours from Jesses and many other peoples articles and what Sam Rob said is were the information on haze originates for every ones articles.


Rob and Sam lived in California and are Friends Sam took haze to Holland so a logical person would go by what Sam and Rob would have to say.



The story prity much stated the same from day 1 it haze was a hybrid but decades later it the story now changes to it was a pure columbine ?


So can you explain to us why haze is so unstable and was unstable from the get go if it came from pure Colombian ? .


haze was being grown in Australia in the early 70s also and the Royal Commission has the evidence it was being grown in the 70s here and the seed came directly from the Californian mafia to the Mafia here.


So key points



Rob and Sam story of the haze stayed prity much the same for decades.


Then some one contacts you Bigherb tells you its now Punto Rojo bagseeds inbreed.

So the story told by Rob and Sam for years is not correct now that is what your telling us.


As for Nevs work that belongs in a different thread.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Im in Cali and not far from where Sams was. I used to vacation just down the road from there at Rio Del Mar. Im pretty sure we were getting the same Columbian Red, and it was coming in through the Oakland harbor, and there was plenty of it. It was so red, it was almost black, and had a heavy couch lock high, red eyes, and made music sound great. No metallic flavors whatsoever. No soaring high.


Hey Hempy, maybe it has some Thia in it?

 

[Donald Mallard]

hmmm
you either read into things too much , or misunderstand hempy ,
or mistake one thing for another ,




firstly , there is no proof haze was grown in oz in the early days,
you are simply drawing conclusions and using a paper to back it up

that actually never says what you are saying ,,



secondly you cant be sure rob wrote what is on the 420 page ,
some other person is referenced there also ,

did rob write it all ??

im sure he knows what is in haze ,


thirdly ,
sam may have said somethings that may not have been clear to all ,
he did as mentioned share some seed with the haze brothers , who made some crosses ,
but preferred the original ,, its all there for you to read man ,
but conclusions can be drawn from reading a limited amount

given none of us where there except sam

dont you reckon you should listen to him
and occasionally give him the benefit of the doubt ,
he is not on trial , and recounts from his memory a story from a very long time ago ,
if he has said it was a 3 way colombian cross , thats what it is ,
why would you want to question it ??

you are not a judge , and he is not on trial ..