question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[herbgreen]

Yep, the red sap is supposedly why the Colombians called it Punto Rojo, and have seen it in the finer more pure leaning Punto Rojo's so I think it could be true. Possibly a sign, that perhaps a few different types of colombians were used by the bros in the haze's creation.

Sam, what do you feel the Colombians that the Haze bros used were like? Were they longer flowering than the Thais and Indians? Have you come across any hazes which went for ten to thirteen months or more of long nights in the populations you grew, or plants which reached floral maturity and went back into vegetative growth without any change in light cycle? If so, what part of the pedigree did you feel these lean towards?

quoted from bluebeard

som very interesting insight to ponder on from bluebeard and no response to this question ,this guy was a wealth of knowledge i miss his presence

its more interesting now with the rewritten history of ohaze


1luvbigherb

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=106


Quote:
Originally Posted by bushweed View Post
Well told, bigherb. Could have done with a little editing and fine tuning, but the essential facts are laid out. Except perhaps for what was the influence of other strains after punt rojo? Now we just have to wait for a critique from Sam.

Im not an educated man but i put my heart in my hand

After punto rojo it was no longer santa cruz original haze


If you recall awhile back i had asked what specifically where the exact parents .If I recall we were told wacky weed colombian gold acapulco gold an of course south indian an thai .


1luvbigherb

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=102

Best I seem to be able to do is point back into this thread and bring out the points that relate to the topic

bigherb has done a good job gathering info and compiling quotes

We still seem deep in the haze about if original haze has thai leaning phenos or santa marta gold phenos


Haze 'with Colombian bloodline' or 'Thai Influenced original haze' or haze 'with thai blood' sounds like phenos of poly hybrid being expressed....


"Original Haze with a strong Thai influence"


That sort of comment leans toward thai being in there



right???



x

 

[@hempy]

hmmm
you either read into things too much , or misunderstand hempy ,
or mistake one thing for another ,




firstly , there is no proof haze was grown in oz in the early days,
you are simply drawing conclusions and using a paper to back it up

that actually never says what you are saying ,,



secondly you cant be sure rob wrote what is on the 420 page ,
some other person is referenced there also ,

did rob write it all ??

im sure he knows what is in haze ,


thirdly ,
sam may have said somethings that may not have been clear to all ,
he did as mentioned share some seed with the haze brothers , who made some crosses ,
but preferred the original ,, its all there for you to read man ,
but conclusions can be drawn from reading a limited amount

given none of us where there except sam

dont you reckon you should listen to him
and occasionally give him the benefit of the doubt ,
he is not on trial , and recounts from his memory a story from a very long time ago ,
if he has said it was a 3 way colombian cross , thats what it is ,
why would you want to question it ??

you are not a judge , and he is not on trial ..

So the police surveillance Drug inquiry's Royal Commotions witness testimony's are all lies is that what your telling me ?.


You have not even bothered to research it you did not even know about the US Australian cartel and other agency involvement in the drug trade here.Like i said Haze came here via the Mafia its documented .


What people post stays and becomes part of history and all that Sam and Rob had posted said relating to haze is there for all to see from the very first post.


For decades it said haze was a hybrid unstable now its a Colombian pure strain because some one pm bigherb okay.

 

[@hempy]

Hey Hempy, maybe it has some Thia in it?

You just never know

 

[yesum]

I read that early Colombian has genetic origins in Southeast Asia. Hmmmmm. Maybe this is all a moot point?

 

[robotwithdreams]

Cuban Black Haze x (A5 Haze x Miracle Thai) ie Baindaid Haze.

Best modern hybrid haze recreation that I am personally aware of. Doc D Seeds, I think. He worked with other sativa lines as well. Worth looking into if that is your thing.



dank.Frank

I believe the orginal breeder was bodhi. He crossed the cuban black haze to the a5/hazexthai. Docd tested the line and found a killer pheno ( #7) which he and others use to breed with.
Folks do rave about it.

 

[herbgreen]

Legend of Haze

Legend of Haze

I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.
Sacred Seeds never tried to stablize or improve the Original Haze, our only goal was to save as many of the Original Haze genes as I could so I used as many Original Haze females and males as I could. I think I could create an all Original Haze improved line but I would need to grow thousands and thousands of plants to find a few keeper females, the males would require to be transformed into females to be screened as keepers, and/or by progeney trials that would be best. I would have done it already except that Original Haze is a lousey Dry Sift Hash maker and I hate to use so much space to do the work right. If I don't someone will....
I really do not like Original Haze hybrids that use an WLD Indica to make powerful Hazes, they are strong but often lack the pure Sativa high the I prefer. It is easy though.
If done right with just haze taste and effects, and I can't tell it is a hybrid and it is strong as the Haze was, I would like it I bet. Even the Purple Haze from back in the 70's was not really my choice, they did seem a bit stronger then the greens, limes, and blues, but they also had a more narcotic effect to me. They were the prettiest not the best, to me.
-SamS

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=120

Quote:
All of the S Indian and Thai crosses were toward the end of Haze production. Not only males were used for crosses. The 3 year timeline was just someones dream , Haze was grown for over 10years by the haze bros , Sacred seeds tried to stabilize Haze with mixed results.The quality dropped considerably.The problem is that the best Hazes were F1s Hybrids , and Haze stabilization can not be done without a loss of vigor.
Also I never chose males for hybrids, you do not know how good they are or their ability to contribute to a new hybrid. I use haze females , and I do have a few Haze males that I selected from hundreds of males , after testing their progeny first. But it is a lot of work and beyond most closet breeders. The progenys growouts involved thousands of plants. Just to determine the best haze male to use for Hybrids"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=121


Quote:
I brought most or all the O Haze seeds to the Netherlands, Nevil included. When you say Thai why is that?
I know that one of the Haze brothers used a few of my Thai and S Indian seeds with his Haze, but it was a minority. The other Haze Bro, grew my Thai and S Indian seeds but never used them to make Haze.
Why is it mostly Thai?
The Original Haze was three Columbian varieties, including Punto Rojos, and a magenta variety and a green variety. They were used to make the first O Haze. All Columbian.....
-SamS
Sams

"I think the reason many have the thought haze is mostly Thai is because some of the Companies which Haze stock is derived from your work have suggested this such as Tom Hill and Nevil/MNS aswell as your old post of Haze being post of All of the S Indian and Thai crosses were toward the end of Haze production. Not only males were used for crosses.
Aswell there wasnt much precise info until my Article an your recent Haze related post of parental info,reguarding there timelines of which lines were used .Also as to what stock you worked an what you stock you gave to which companies"

quoted from Raco

Quote:
"This is what TomHill said almost 4 years ago:

"Most of the "Thai" i´ve tried in the last ten years or so was just kinda okay,not saying the goods aren´t out there,just that i haven´t been able to locate it,& i´ve turned over a few stones lookin.The closest i´ve come are selected phenos of the original haze from positronics.I´ve always thought that their haze was very heavy in thai genes,due mostly to a characteristic thai smell/flavor in a high percentage of them (+/-75%),a smell i remember from some excellent thai that some friends used to grow long ago.Although most of the reports say "mostly colombian/mexican & less south indian/thai",there´s a seemingly informed report by "Robert Clarke"(i wonder) that seems to go along with my guess of heavy in thai genes.
I bet if you grew out a few packets of the Original Haze from the Flying Dutchmen,you´d find what you´re looking for"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182&page=124




.

 

[AstroTHC]

Ok what i say before is that u have to use all your knowladge to be close to truth.
Sam dont know what is in Haze line and he will never know. He is just talking stories for lil kids and guys who have knowladge without expirience.

I was in Army and i know some things.
Also served in Légion étrangère.

Some poeople like BigHerb saying statements that are pure crap.
What is pure Columbian ?
If you were in any country like Columbia,Albania,Vietnam,Laos in this countries people dont grow from clones and care about genetics they are pure and making money from these plants like your granny on tomato and those big grows are held by criminals who are close to para military or some kind of securitiy agencies. On big fields
No uniformity, only enormous seed fields and better and worse phenotypes. Just like Haze from purple to green of all flavors and scents all kind of effects.

During the Vietnam war. Lots of US militaries while hanging around smoke some of best and strongest pot there. And they took seeds of best examples like where in Afganistan.
Also surly few of them maybe import some stuff.
American agencies and goverment made experiment called MK ultra in mid of 20ty century.
And they experiment with psydelics but lots of people lose their mind cuz of to strong stuff. So after vietnam war. Lots of soliders came back with seeds or buds from that area Vietnam,Laos,Thai..after thet in persian gulf and list go on....by Vietnam war culture of getting high on west culuture start spread all over.
And weed was start to be billion dollar business.

US security agencies received part of the budget from production of weed in Columbia,
Did you ask your self why Columbia it is close to US,and it is Banana republic like most of South American and cenetral American states. So seeds in Columbia come all over the world and start massive production,also in Mexico,Panama and list goes on.

Sam was pusher nothing more not god of cananbis or some shit like that.
In 1985 he come with bag full of seeds in NL and from these bag haze come.
That is why older genration say that Haze smell like Thai younger say it is Columbian.
plants by smell and taste. Maybe Haze name just come from Jimmy hendrix hit like today Buggati OG famous car...But all in all i havent found any seeds in my years of growing that are unform expecially sativas strains. I found sometimes similaritiy in hard core indicas but sativa is alwys in mess.

So all in all SAM is talking stories some of you believe.
But if turn on your brain you will see that no one surley now what is Haze. To some guys anything incense like is Haze to some it is importent efect...who knows.

If you see that Mad Mac is saying that THH is stronger than Original Haze from seedsmans and Tom Hill say this:''I want a plant that is more resinous than DC, more heady than Haze''
So maybe in Columbia where all seeds from around the world and best are selected for years by growers they prefere,also Indicas will get molded and unselable in humid areas of columbia only thin lifed airy thai sats are good in that conditions.
So what is haze we never know our picture of Haze comes from Neville work and that is all from A haze lots will say columbian pheno (leather,musky,pine,incense) Neville say it is close to chocolate Thai from 70ty. And citrus,gingery,piney haze C most will say thai dominant. All in all Neville dont know at that time. Same say to him it is Haze. Somone who grow shit maybe one pheno was Haze but progeny was unstable. All in all SAM say Cannabis cant be breed like tomato.

Sry for my English it not my native,and what i want to say is very complex.
But no mather what sam says he will never know what is haze. is this Thai(SEasian) genetics cultivated and climated in Columbia or it is something else but statement that you konow is Punto Rojo is shit if you go on field when punto rojo is growing you will se lots of differences and that is all.
Cannabis cant be controled and that is fact.
Maybe one day GMO seeds but we are far away for it.
First to get cananbis strains we need legal cananbis in every country world wide.
And when all countries legalize then we can have milion of plants grow and selections like with apples,oranges....and other vegetables. In my first post i told to SAM that his bag he broght to NL is very good genetics but unstable and not uniform he dosent say nothing to this statement. Cuz it is true so THX sam for seeds and Neville for selections.

 

[willydread]

I have some doubts that in the 50s and 60s they made great mixes in the ganjah producing countries, not to misunderstand me, I was not born yet, but those things started in the mid 70s, with an ever greater demand for weed and with the war on drugs ...
There have been groups that cultivated exotic varieties in the West (eg Lebanese in Mexico) but I don't know how much it centers on the topic ....

 

[dank.frank]

I believe the orginal breeder was bodhi. He crossed the cuban black haze to the a5/hazexthai. Docd tested the line and found a killer pheno ( #7) which he and others use to breed with.
Folks do rave about it.

I have the BH#7 cut, but have not flowered her out yet. I'll be sure to post about it when I do.

The A5/Thai was made by Karma G. He sent the seeds to Bodhi who bred a male to the Cuban Black. Those seeds sent to Doc D who selected the #7.



dank.Frank

 

[bigherb]

Astrothc

Was your old username Astra007 ?

If that is your mindset , then we can’t label any strain of today because it once had origins from another location. Maybe Phylos will give you assurance . We should try and hope to share as much details as possible from the source / location of genetics obtained , this is the idea

I ask you and others with long repetitive post / off topic to share your opinion and move on . I wish thread starters had control to clean the thread . I’ve asked politely to stay on topic

Hempy

Nothing has changed but a partial spell check
It’s great to see you

I answered your question, it would be gentlemen like to respond to mine . We should forget thia , it doesn’t exist in Original Haze . I believe it was created by a man from a land far far away

 

[robotwithdreams]

I have the BH#7 cut, but have not flowered her out yet. I'll be sure to post about it when I do.

The A5/Thai was made by Karma G. He sent the seeds to Bodhi who bred a male to the Cuban Black. Those seeds sent to Doc D who selected the #7.



dank.Frank

Very cool. I have it in a couple crosses in the vault. Id love to know what you think of it when its ready. No doubt you will do justice to her.

 

[RandyCalifornia]

I said it before and I'll say it again.
In the late 60's and early 70's the Viet Nam war was going strong. Lot of troops had R&R in Thailand
Mexican weed was coming into California big time. Lots of people had been smoking Mexican for a while and wanted some of that really strong trippy Thai that was coming in from SE Asia with troops returning. I was learning and growing at that time. The Haze Bros, if there were any Haze Bros were in the same boat I and many others were, "how do you get these plants from Thailand/SE Asia to finish in our climate. The answer was to cross them with the faster finishing plants from Mexico/Central America. Everybody I knew at that time who was growing was crossing the seeds they found in Thai with the Mexican seeds they had been growing for years by then to see if they could get the Thai to finish in Ca.
Colombian did not start to show up in Ca till the mid 70's and it was VERY MUCH like the THAI (coincidence)that was around before the Colombian ever showed up. Lots of guy's who were in Nam brought back seeds and smoke and were very influenced by it.
I say that Haze was worked before Sam or the Haze bros made it and it was grown in Colombia by guy's who had been in Nam and knew the potential of getting this Thai weed grown to it's potential in Colombia and get it back into the US to make beaucoup(a lot) money.
Haze was not around before 1975-76. Haze seeds were not available till the 80's. Lots of things could have gone on in those years and did. There was a lot of crazy risk taking centered around weed in those years by a lot of heads who were very much influenced by their first puff on a Thai Stick after smoking and growing Mexican up till that time.
I grew some myself in those years. There were NO clones, you had to make seeds for the next year. There were also no WLD's around then, it was all in the form of Hash. So we made seeds with Mexican varieties that finished early enough to get good buds and crossed them with the strongest smoke we had back then, Thai Weed.
My ideas and my experience, not to call Sam or anybody else wrong or BS. Just my experience back then.
MY GROW

 

[RandyCalifornia]

One other thing.
You think security is a thing now, hahaha.
Back then only your closes bros and they had to be doing the same thing you were, were the only ones you ever talked about or reasoned about growing with.
Although, it was also a time when most people did not know what herb smelled like or looked like, but everybody was learning fast.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Love the people who are doing it with passion and do not care for marketing, flowering times, etc. Even if I want to grow 70days flowering strains only, there will always be a place somewhere in a corner for one or more long flowering hazes or pure sativas.

They will be harvested once, when others will be harvested twice. So what's the problem??

Then I personally still have to find WLD x Haze genetics, or the 75% Haze x NL phenos, that I can smoke all night long, till noon, and be able to compete with people on synthetic drugs. But that's only me. Can't speak for others.

But it's easy to find reasons to not grow a pure or long flowering haze. What's not so easy is to grow it.

 

[bigherb]

Randy

I enjoy your post and respect your opinion and experience

But now you say Haze was not around before 1975�� Really

I’ve heard abit about the old lumbos of the late 60’s . They were reported special and even longer flowering than Thai . Bluebeard was familiar with them . My uncle (Rip) told me of colombian wacky weed if I recall late 60’s being legendary. He was smoking Sour D at the time , still blazing in his 70’s .

Before I heard the term wacky weed in the net he mentioned it . His story was a pin joint would twist out 4 stoners . I laughed at the time but later realized he was just sharing his experience

We know the history of Afro- colombia and the slave trade . I believe that is a partial influence of the old lumbo with African origins.

I guess the man who knows the original growers /originator the man responsible for the Haze we all smoke today (Sams) and my story having such similarities doesn’t clear things up for some

1luvbigherb

 

[grayeyes]

Jeez, can't you give this guy a break? He has said what he is going to say.

 

[romanoweed]

wow Randy, that is a nice photo of a Thai. lease upload some more into your Album . if i find the time i will coloradjust them later in photshop. I Need to see this pics so i can decude better wich Thais today are better. 70s Landraces was wonderful i guess. I can see they look much better

 

[RandyCalifornia]

I am just stating my experience and my thoughts @bigherb. Everyone has had their own experience. I did not see quality Colombian around till the mid 70's, the best Colombian. I may have smoke Colombian before that and not known. The Colombian I always refer to was from a guy I knew who always had quality and I smoked through pounds of it, and every bud was the same, I did not have to look for a good bud to roll up it was all good.
I remember Wacky Weed but did not hear of it till around the same time mid 70's, it was always out of my price range and the Gold was soooo gooood, I could not imaging getting more high or a better high. There was Red/brown, but we called it Red Colombian, it was more narcotic high, dreamy and very strong also and this is what the Wacky Weed was like the Gold was a rocket to the moon and also only took a pinner.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Randy

I enjoy your post and respect your opinion and experience

But now you say Haze was not around before 1975�� Really

I’ve heard abit about the old lumbos of the late 60’s . They were reported special and even longer flowering than Thai . Bluebeard was familiar with them . My uncle (Rip) told me of colombian wacky weed if I recall late 60’s being legendary. He was smoking Sour D at the time , still blazing in his 70’s .

Before I heard the term wacky weed in the net he mentioned it . His story was a pin joint would twist out 4 stoners . I laughed at the time but later realized he was just sharing his experience

We know the history of Afro- colombia and the slave trade . I believe that is a partial influence of the old lumbo with African origins.

I guess the man who knows the original growers /originator the man responsible for the Haze we all smoke today (Sams) and my story having such similarities doesn’t clear things up for some

1luvbigherb

Big herb you got close but your story had a few errors.. I think even sam will agree with me on this

 

[RandyCalifornia]

Actually I looked it up it was in 1973 or so, Bigherb, the album Overnight Sensation by Frank Zappa came out and I used to crank up the Macintosh all the way and get crazy with that album. I never heard of Haze till the 80's. Like I said I was on my own mission to make a NLD like Gold Colombian/Thai?Mex that would finish in Northern California. In 1979 I moved to Humboldt and discovered WLD's and everything changed.