question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[harvestreaper]

can i ask some of the haze experts couple of questions, so the nl5 hz A was a male ?was the haze the male or female in the nl5 x haze?,,, the old nl5 hz from sensi was outstanding rang everyones bell who tried it think we had the cut around 15 years was well tested an never lost a battle with any other contenders,but could sometimes come out mediocre if not grown right and if that was a sample you tried youd wonder what all fuss was about ,,,one thing it would do is produce a few seeds late in flo but never were any close to the mum in quality they would smell even taste the same but would be runty an low power compared to mum this seems to tie into what leet is saying about related brothers in the mix as id of thought one gen of inbreeding s1 on a straight f1 cross would still produce very outcrossed vigourous plants not plants showing real inbred as was the case with our nl5 haze mums offspring ??,, hope thats makes sense

 

[leet]

Interesting leet.Was NH so hard to find keepers on the early days?Cause searching in many packs for a keeper is quite the contrary of what Nevil was advocating...A friend from here told me that he grew a pack of mr nice nev haze last year and found 14-16 weekers with couchlock effect ...

I don't know. I only grew one plant in 2007 from '97 seed and it was exceptional. I kept it for 5-6 years and grew just that straight.
Now we grew it again last year 5 females and didn't find what we were looking for, although the plants are very potent, I think they are too much nl5hazeA for my liking. I wouldnt call them couchlock though more dreamy trippy.. We found one plant that smelled like tangerine haze. But we kept nothing. So I germinated my last two seeds this year and I got a male and a female, this is the female and this plant looks the closest to my old female , but not exactly the same. I have smoked many more plants from other growers and also a plant selected by Nev in AMS...


This is my experience with MNS Nevs Haze.

100% Organic under HPS + MH , spring mountaing water, 27 days flowering under 8/16

 

[Thule]

You are of course correct, but my point was that according to sources (SamS mostly) the Orginal Haze wasn't as low yielding before, and it was also more potent. So it has deteriorated.


Also, haze started as a mixture of sativas, we know Thai and Kerala were added later, yet it is still called the Original Haze. Haze is polyhybrid in nature. I'll call my lines a haze, just not the Original. Adding Kerala was not very original but I won't call it Unoriginal Haze We'll see.

I think the low yield, long-flowering time and moderate potency (but superb effect) are characteristics of Haze itself.

These qualities only seem to be improved by outcrossing and not inbreeding as you have personally experienced with adding the Kerala.

You might still call it Haze but a Haze hybrid would probably be a more accurate definition. In any case if you're happy with the end product that's all that really matters.

Perhaps crossing the 16 week ceilingless/almost ceilingless NH haze pheno with a nice representation of OTH and then crossing that to an exceptional O-Haze could be another way to improve the line and keep it essentially a pure Haze line.

Peace,

N7

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Few years ago, a good old friend asked to roll a joint with my "old hippie weed" (he meant my Seedsman Original Hazes).

I said "Old hippie weed??? take this and we'll see if you will call it like that again" and gave him a cross of 2 pure Hazes.

When he started smoking I asked: "and?"
He (laughing) said "hippie weed as usual"
I "smoke slowly my friend or you will regret it"
(he laughing loud) "I'm older than you, I have smoked the best hazes ever ... bla bla"

10min later he got pale and opened all the windows and doors to "get rid of the haze smell" he said.

I asked: "Thought you love the haze smell??? Do you need something sugary my friend?"

"No, I'm fine!!" (no laughing this time)

5mins later he fled out of the (his) house, without saying anything. His phone still on the table. We thought he was on toilet or in the garden. But he wasn't there.
All the windows and doors still open.

45min later (we began worrying about him), he came back and I asked: "And? the hippie weed?"

With a big grin he answered "Man I had to go, I needed to breathe fresh air, sorry"

 

[Illuminate]

Few years ago, a good old friend asked to roll a joint with my "old hippie weed" (he meant my Seedsman Original Hazes).

I said "Old hippie weed??? take this and we'll see if you will call it like that again" and gave him a cross of 2 pure Hazes.

When he started smoking I asked: "and?"
He (laughing) said "hippie weed as usual"
I "smoke slowly my friend or you will regret it"
(he laughing loud) "I'm older than you, I have smoked the best hazes ever ... bla bla"

10min later he got pale and opened all the windows and doors to "get rid of the haze smell" he said.

I asked: "Thought you love the haze smell??? Do you need something sugary my friend?"

"No, I'm fine!!" (no laughing this time)

5mins later he fled out of the (his) house, without saying anything. His phone still on the table. We thought he was on toilet or in the garden. But he wasn't there.
All the windows and doors still open.

45min later (we began worrying about him), he came back and I asked: "And? the hippie weed?"

With a big grin he answered "Man I had to go, I needed to breathe fresh air, sorry"

Lol

 

[led05]

100% Organic under HPS + MH , spring mountaing water, 27 days flowering under 8/16

You had me up to the 8/16 even though I'm an LED guy......

 

[leet]

Yeah, I have done some tests with clones with 12/12 600W , 10/14 750W and 8/16 with 1000W and 8/16 will give the best overall yield, the best gram/day, the best total cannabinoids, best calyx/leaf ratio, best calyx/stalk ratio, shortest flowering time and it will avoid the chance of foxtailing due to high intensity light close to colas.I have done this test more than once to exclude the effiency of different HPS wattage lamps.

I get around 1.5gram/watt in 4 months with mostly sativas from regular seed ( including males ) under 8/16 with compensated light intensity( compared to 12/12).

I also use LEDs but for moms and veg, they are awesome but I flower sativas under a mix of HPS and MH, where LEDs have a hard time to achieve similar initial $/PAR ratio.

 

[Yo Sammy]

Nevil tried many times to improve the NH but I remember him saying he had a hard time. He tried backcrossing to the HazeC father but the plants werent any better. He also tried to reverse HazeC and smoke it so he knows how the pure HazeC smokes. He felt the HazeC on it's own lacked bass aka bottom, it was only treble and he felt the NH ( which also contained nl5xhazeA ) was better than the pure HazeC .

The funny thing is nevil much prefered the nl5hazeC but not the nl5hazeA. BUT the nl5hazeA crossed to HazeC gave the best kids. It was not the Nl5HazeC x HazeC that was better.


He said that when he did that cross something magical happened ( Nevilles Haze ) and he believed it had to with using two related brothers. When he used the nl5hazeC x hazeC he was already seeing inbreeding in vigour growth and other stuff, although the nl5hazeC plant was the better one compared to nl5hazeA.


So the people that think they can take a NH and cross it to a pure haze and make it better think again, maybe it will work but Nevil did lots of testing and he said any inbreeding further than the NH just didnt work. Maybe it explains why OH is generally not so good, too much inbreding and that is why its good breeding stock. Otherwise it would be good smoking stock.


People complain the nl5hazeA ( mom of Nevs ) is not very good , narcotic , lacks terpenes. Yes it is all that and even more but this female gave the best kids with the HazeC male, not the nl5hazeC , which is the SSH mom which is much better, everyone agrees. You have to outcross the OH to make it work.. The nl5hazeA wasnt good on its own but it gave the best combining ability to the hazeC , thats how real breeders work, they test the kids.

The lack of terpines in the NL5, Nevil said, was easy to give headroom to the HazeC and not affect the final hybrid in taste. Thats is why NH is all haze taste and no afghani. The nl5hazeA instead of nl5hazeC didn't inbred so much so as not to become all frankincense and catpiss. Nevil said when you further inbred the NH it would be become all frankincse and catpiss.

You have to select in Nevilles Haze, the most hazy phenos and discard anything with thick leaves and anything that flowers fast if you care for the pure haze high. People that grow one two packets and dont find what they want makes no surprise to me. I have smoked NH with no terpenes at all and nothing special but the right pheno is half joint and you have to put it aside because you are too high paranoid selfaware that you cannot even understand people talking to you, completely electric and tachycardic. You don't even need a ceiling, half joint will put you in LSD land for 3 hours, and after you come back you will be like WOW that was intense ! I don't tihnk I want to smoke more... but if you do you will have the same trip. Of course if your tolerance is super high and totally in your comfort zone these things might not happen but I smoke for 20 years and if I dont smoke for 3-4 days , this will happen with the proper NH pheno. I have never smoked an OH that had this kind of effect.

I think the NH is an exceptional hybrid, much thought and tested and a marvel by a genius. It is faster than the OH, you can find ceilingless phenos, it yields MUCH better than the inbred OH, you can basically find BETTER hazes than the hazes in the original haze but with added points of vigour growth and yield and for me better taste ( pine-mango-frankincess ) rather than the more classic generic piney lemony green OH.

I know they are different but for me the OH is not as special as the NH, I can find this type of high in many sativas while the NH is very special and different. Not my everyday cup for sure but I think it is exceptional and the closest think to a psychedelic.


According to many posts, there areprobably much better OH plants than I have tried... so have that in mind.

Nice read, i agree 100%
Something very special to NevHz. Powerfull stuff. Shame he lost HzA male early. Always wondered what NL5HzCxHzA would have been like. Maybe even more psychedelic/acid like.
Maybe nice to know the man himself never named his favourite strain after himself but his crew decided to name it after its creator.
Always a pleasure to read you l33t

 

[Yo Sammy]

can i ask some of the haze experts couple of questions, so the nl5 hz A was a male ?was the haze the male or female in the nl5 x haze?,,, the old nl5 hz from sensi was outstanding rang everyones bell who tried it think we had the cut around 15 years was well tested an never lost a battle with any other contenders,but could sometimes come out mediocre if not grown right and if that was a sample you tried youd wonder what all fuss was about ,,,one thing it would do is produce a few seeds late in flo but never were any close to the mum in quality they would smell even taste the same but would be runty an low power compared to mum this seems to tie into what leet is saying about related brothers in the mix as id of thought one gen of inbreeding s1 on a straight f1 cross would still produce very outcrossed vigourous plants not plants showing real inbred as was the case with our nl5 haze mums offspring ??,, hope thats makes sense

Nevil based his Haze work on 2 male Hazes, A & C. The old nl5Hz from sensi always was NL5 x Hz C.
NL5 x HzA couldnt be reproduced due to the early loss of Haze A male.
His best selected hybrids from both NL5 crosses were A5 (NL5/HzA) & C5 (NL5/HzC).
His most famous reproduced strain is Nevilles Haze (NL5/HzA x HzC male) original breed by Nevil was A5#2xHzC
Thats why Nevils original pre 97 work can differ from other seedbank offering Nevilles Haze. Most probably another NL#5/HzA selection as mom but that is just speculation from my own experience.

 

[harvestreaper]

Nevil based his Haze work on 2 male Hazes, A & C. The old nl5Hz from sensi always was NL5 x Hz C.
NL5 x HzA couldnt be reproduced due to the early loss of Haze A male.
His best selected hybrids from both NL5 crosses were A5 (NL5/HzA) & C5 (NL5/HzC).
His most famous reproduced strain is Nevilles Haze (NL5/HzA x HzC male) original breed by Nevil was A5#2xHzC
Thats why Nevils original pre 97 work can differ from other seedbank offering Nevilles Haze. Most probably another NL#5/HzA selection as mom but that is just speculation from my own experience.

thank you yo sammy for that ,,makes it a lot clearer ,,right whos got pre 97 nevilles haze then ?/lol

 

[MAHA KALA]

Maybe it explains why OH is generally not so good, too much inbreeding and that is why its good breeding stock. Otherwise it would be good smoking stock.

again? I grew it and smoke proved you are completely wrong. I know this ehm.. "not true words" helps to sell mns seeds, but this is not mns forum. we can be opened here, and dont have to stick to seedseller paradigma LOL

 

[MAHA KALA]

I think the low yield, long-flowering time and moderate potency (but superb effect) are characteristics of Haze itself.

moderate? some phenos yes, but some other phenotypes:

Potent, up, electric, speedy, clear, cerebral, euphoric, psychedelic, energetic, mental, as well as no ceiling, every time you take a hit you get higher and get rushes. Makes folks turn white and get low blood pressure and pass out when they stand up, get paranoid. I like it and do not get too high, that is what I like. <br />
-SamS

 

[Limeygreen]

Even the first offerings of original haze back in the 70's stated that about 10 percent were good so it's not an inbreeding thing if the same holds true now, especially with the canadian seeedsman cut/s being great it just means not all plants are great out of the packs. Sam did as much as her could to preserve the genepool as he has stated, but he didn't do selections on oh when he made seeds to sell only selections on his crosses.

Some people call it paranoid some people don't, it's hard to tell how someone will react until they try it. For me seedsman haze cutting in canada is full of energy which doesn't make me paranoid but it makes me full of energy and I need to do something, move around as I cannot sit still or my muscles get tight. It's good but for me lacks the complete euphoria as it is lazer focused for me. 14-16 weeks is not very long to flower imo, 8 weeks is lightning fast.

 

[Limeygreen]

I recall somewhere he had a haze female but he unfortunately lost her as well, much to his regret as she turned out to be something great no? Maybe I am thinking of something else though.

Nevil based his Haze work on 2 male Hazes, A & C. The old nl5Hz from sensi always was NL5 x Hz C.
NL5 x HzA couldnt be reproduced due to the early loss of Haze A male.
His best selected hybrids from both NL5 crosses were A5 (NL5/HzA) & C5 (NL5/HzC).
His most famous reproduced strain is Nevilles Haze (NL5/HzA x HzC male) original breed by Nevil was A5#2xHzC
Thats why Nevils original pre 97 work can differ from other seedbank offering Nevilles Haze. Most probably another NL#5/HzA selection as mom but that is just speculation from my own experience.

 

[harvestreaper]

im playing catchup here i notice theres haze A hybrids around now like the one from ace but it appears it was the c i knew an loved ,unless we got early haze 5 A which i dont know ,,,,so another question, is nevilles haze the only haze C or C5 available in seed these days?

 

[Breadwizard]

I thought I read somewhere that "El nino" contained haze 'c' (haze c x (ww x ss) but maybe someone with more knowledge can pop in and confirm.

Isn't it in SSH and mango haze as well?

 

[Elmer Bud]

I thought I read somewhere that "El nino" contained haze 'c' (haze c x (ww x ss) but maybe someone with more knowledge can pop in and confirm.

Isn't it in SSH and mango haze as well?

G `day BW

Shanti was stretching the truth then ...
He has a hybrid from Australia he rated as the Oz equiv of Haze .
Was quoted in an interview saying we have also a female Haze at Mr Nice that is used in El Nino .

Came out in the wash when Nevil was at Mr Nice forum . The other Haze Shanti was talkin about is sposed to be Mullumbimby Madness .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Elmer Bud]

I recall somewhere he had a haze female but he unfortunately lost her as well, much to his regret as she turned out to be something great no? Maybe I am thinking of something else though.

G `day LG

He managed to make a cpl of batches of seeds with her due to her long flowering .
He said he harvested and Rob and Sam smoked it .

He never said what became of those seeds .

Nevil also reversed Haze C and made seeds and sold them .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Thcvhunter]

That bit about reversing Haze C sure clears a lot of stuff up, ties a lot of loose ends.

 

[Nexus7]

He managed to make a cpl of batches of seeds with her due to her long flowering .
He said he harvested and Rob and Sam smoked it .

He never said what became of those seeds .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Any chance of a smoke report on that Neville grown Haze female Sam?

Ty,

N7