President Obama- Drug Warrior?

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Yeah I don't get it the "job creaters" act like it's all obamas fault and without him new jobs are going to magically appear when the fact of the matter is they are sending hundreds of thousands of jobs to places like India, China and Malaysia and they back the republicans so they don't have to pay fair share of taxes while they rapeour country of jobs and money.

I was watching Colbert Report this morning and he was clowning on Paul Ryan and a few other republicans because they were saying how if you raise the tax on "job creators" then you get less jobs - then Colbert brought up that in 1995 millionares tax rates were at 30.4% compared to their rate in 2009 which was 22.4% and during that same time unemployment went from 5.6% to 9.3%

8% cut in millionares taxes = 3.7% raise in unemployment

So where are all the jobs? How can people in the GOP say shit like if you tax the richest of the rich it will impede people from being able to create jobs? What about all the people who dont create any jobs and still make millions of dollars? They make it seem that anyone who makes moer then $200k a year are just hiring people on the daily.

...and please someone tell me why in the fuck you get poor people supporting the uber rich? How in the fuck does that compute? Only in America...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Why would alternet, et al be any different from news if they're reporting news?

SCOTUS made it legal to lie. I hear and read talking points (often lies) substituted as fact. I often see the line between fact and unsubstantiated opinion dissolved. I often see facts manipulated to segway bs opinions.

So what do I do in a world of misinformation? First off, I pay attention to current events. I separate ideology from reality enough to recognize the difference. Sure I'm politically persuaded but my opinions have to be tempered with reason. Hard to reason w/o the facts.

How difficult is all this? About as difficult as cutting the header off the newspaper. One can still tell editorial from a news article w/o EDITORIAL emblazoned across the top. All they have to do is read it.

I don't make the rules either. Facts are no more mine than the next guys. The only thing that belongs to me is an opinion. And if I mold facts like modeling clay my opinion isn't worth very much. I can disagree with somebody's personal implications and still decide whether they're supporting the facts. Doesn't necessarily make their news or opinion any less worthy, if only to others.

 

[vta]

Oh The Irony (Part II): Obama The Home Brewer
By: Allen St. Pierre, NORML Executive Director


Oh to be governed…by hypocrites.

Last week the nation watched President Obama bestow a rarely presented Medal of Honor to former Marine Sgt. Dakota Meyer. News reports indicate Mr. Meyer requested to have a beer the night before with his former commander-in-chief before the formal ceremonies.

The two men were in fact widely photographed enjoying a beer on the White House back porch.

Where did the beer the two men consume come from?

The same news reports reveal that our President has become the first ever home brew resident of the White House, brewing a “White House Honey Blonde Ale”.

Is it not painfully ironic to the point of disgust that the President of these United States of America–an occasional tobacco consumer and home brewer–along with the Speaker of the House John Boehner (a well-known tobacco and alcohol consumer), can responsibly engage in these adult-oriented activities, while at the same time providing ample public resources and rhetoric for continuing the nation’s farcical and long-suffering Cannabis Prohibition (74 years as of October 2nd!)?

Next time you hear one of these two elected policy makers spout off about being ‘anti-drug’ and not being in favor of cannabis law reforms…just remember that both men are just selective Prohibitionists…and hypocrites.

Really! Who wants to be governed by hypocrites who possess this ‘Good for Me, but not for Thee’ mentality?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

14 pages and still going? My Ron Paul threads were closed after about 20 replies...

I can see him getting censored by the media... but IC Mag?


I knew Paul had a tough road ahead of him but GOD DAMN!!!

 

[bentom187]

off topic ,but that seems to be where this is heading anyway,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BHLguFEN3M&list=FLDqTwQ_Aj90G1wgtmXVbQxA&index=1

you see everything that the jobs plan has instore is based on a wish and a whim.
nothing it does helps anyone except the govt politicians get votes.

you gotta pay attention to details on this one.

 

[vta]

14 pages and still going? My Ron Paul threads were closed after about 20 replies...

I can see him getting censored by the media... but IC Mag?


I knew Paul had a tough road ahead of him but GOD DAMN!!!

He does fire the peeps up, that's for sure. The strong showing in Iowa, then the taking of the straw poll in California definitely shows promise. Maybe people are waking up.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

off topic ,but that seems to be where this is heading anyway,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BHLguFEN3M&list=FLDqTwQ_Aj90G1wgtmXVbQxA&index=1

you see everything that the jobs plan has instore is based on a wish and a whim.
nothing it does helps anyone except the govt politicians get votes.

you gotta pay attention to details on this one.

This argument is as old as government itself. It's THE quintessential argument, free market vs tax and regulation.

Here's the one I like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZGkNAUSvY&feature=related

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Oh The Irony (Part II): Obama The Home Brewer
By: Allen St. Pierre, NORML Executive Director


Oh to be governed…by hypocrites.

Last week the nation watched President Obama bestow a rarely presented Medal of Honor to former Marine Sgt. Dakota Meyer. News reports indicate Mr. Meyer requested to have a beer the night before with his former commander-in-chief before the formal ceremonies.

The two men were in fact widely photographed enjoying a beer on the White House back porch.

Where did the beer the two men consume come from?

The same news reports reveal that our President has become the first ever home brew resident of the White House, brewing a “White House Honey Blonde Ale”.

Is it not painfully ironic to the point of disgust that the President of these United States of America–an occasional tobacco consumer and home brewer–along with the Speaker of the House John Boehner (a well-known tobacco and alcohol consumer), can responsibly engage in these adult-oriented activities, while at the same time providing ample public resources and rhetoric for continuing the nation’s farcical and long-suffering Cannabis Prohibition (74 years as of October 2nd!)?

Next time you hear one of these two elected policy makers spout off about being ‘anti-drug’ and not being in favor of cannabis law reforms…just remember that both men are just selective Prohibitionists…and hypocrites.

Really! Who wants to be governed by hypocrites who possess this ‘Good for Me, but not for Thee’ mentality?

Does NORML/St. Pierre even understand the meaning of the word "hypocrisy"?

That would be the correct word to use were Obama growing cannabis in the white house garden or smoking it while participating in its prohibition.

Used in this case though, in relation to his use/brewing of beer, it makes no sense. The argument would have to be taken to its most abstract level to be true - that its not ok for obama to use any legal substance while fighting for any other substance to be illegal.

Even the last line, like what is he suggesting obama believes is good for him but not for everyone else? Beer? The weed he smoked when he was in freakin' college? That statement doesn't make sense any way you look at it.

Personally, I think its pretty cool that Obama is a home brewer. Bought all the gear with his own money and makes a natural product. Yet here comes big bad Allen St. Pierre to call him a hypocrite? Please... Guy needs to lighten the fuck up, get a dictionary, and stop attacking Obama like some Glenn Beck wannabe.

 

[bentom187]

perhaps the agrument was made because of govt. involvment and theres a point to it.

FDR is one of the most socialist presidents we've ever had,social security i beleive was supposed to be a very short term thing,and that the idea that its all free is rediculous,i think anyone who has a payroll stub knows that.

 

[KSP]

FDR was the man, especially at that point in history. Spin it however you like.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

perhaps the agrument was made because of govt. involvment and theres a point to it.

Without it, we wouldn't have a modern society. Paved roads, safe bridges and effective sewer and power systems would be relegated to gated communities.

FDR is one of the most socialist presidents we've ever had,social security i beleive was supposed to be a very short term thing,and that the idea that its all free is rediculous,i think anyone who has a payroll stub knows that.

That's the first time I ever read that SS was supposed to be short term. Wasn't FDR that said short term was it?. Who or what describes SS as short term?

Advocates of SS do not and have never suggested SS is free. Where does this idea come from? IMO, opponents of SS.

 

[bentom187]

Without it, we wouldn't have a modern society. Paved roads, safe bridges and effective sewer and power systems would be relegated to gated communities.

That's the first time I ever read that SS was supposed to be short term. Wasn't FDR that said short term was it?. Who or what describes SS as short term?

Advocates of SS do not and have never suggested SS is free. Where does this idea come from? IMO, opponents of SS.

no, society would have working ammenities as all the subsidized amentities only go to supportin industries that should have died off long ago.

i was being nice saying it was short term, in fact FDR made the eligability like 65 or somthin when the average life expectencey was 61 ,the annolgy is the same not many people where supposed to get paid.

and i may have misinterprated your video on FDR but right around :57 he starts taking about doing all types of social projects for free,despite the previous administration asking for money to do the same ?
thats what it sounds like.

 

[Anti]

14 pages and still going? My Ron Paul threads were closed after about 20 replies...

Some of us are making a clear decision to attempt to keep redirecting the conversation in the direction of cannabis legalization when it meanders. And nobody is pooping in their hand and throwing it (yet.)

As soon as there are more than 2 posts in a row where people are calling each other fuck holes, I'm sure it'll get closed.

But maybe if we all play nice and occasionally reference cannabis legalization we can keep having these stimulating conversations!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

no, society would have working ammenities as all the subsidized amentities only go to supportin industries that should have died off long ago.

Sounds like a contradiction. All subsidized amenities only go to supporting industries, they [subsidized amenities] should have died off long ago yet society would still have those amenities.

Infrastructure isn't permanent and total private sector infrastructure and maintenance would cost so much that only the rich would enjoy them.

i was being nice saying it was short term, in fact FDR made the eligability like 65 or somthin when the average life expectencey was 61 ,the annolgy is the same not many people where supposed to get paid.

SS kicks in at 65 because so many retire at 65. The powers that be are supposed to regulate the payout according to pay in. We do have a problem that fewer workers represent more retirees. Reagan and Tip O'Neil had the same problem in the 80s. They tweaked the formula and made the program solvent for decades.

Lawmakers have borrowed against the trust but have also purchased bonds to finance payback. All of this is supposed to take place before the check is due and for the most part this happens.

Will we ever tweak SS for the last time? Only if we scrap it. Otherwise there will be multiple tweaks every few decades or so.

Rich folks only have to pay the same dollar amount to qualify for full benefits as the lowest paid. They appreciate their SS checks just as much as we do and maybe you'll appreciate yours when you start receiving it.

and i may have misinterprated your video on FDR but right around :57 he starts taking about doing all types of social projects for free,despite the previous administration asking for money to do the same ?
thats what it sounds like.

First off, the previous administration didn't ask for money. They sat on money (and their hands) while people starved, part of the reason slums were called Hoover-villes.

He's talking about SS and the myth that the opposition would continue it. They would have attempted to end the program like they have ever since, culminating with the American public telling George W Bush his privatization plans could take a hike. 3 years later the market busted a 40% loss. SS money isn't tied up in rip off schemes for a reason.

So, greedy capitalists are at a disadvantage, their oft offered 'free market' solutions will cure all ails (and then rip off the world.) So obviously they have to crow that it's really government that's evil.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Personally, I think its pretty cool that Obama is a home brewer. Bought all the gear with his own money and makes a natural product. Yet here comes big bad Allen St. Pierre to call him a hypocrite? Please... Guy needs to lighten the fuck up, get a dictionary, and stop attacking Obama like some Glenn Beck wannabe.

Fuck yeah Mr. B >> i feel ya on that. I got mad respect for all home brewers,, in my opinion its teh same for growers. I got much higher opinions of the people who are willing to go through the work to produce their own then just go down the street and buy it - rather it buds or brew.

and NORML is trash. Fuck their confrences. Fuck their donations. I dont know why anyone backs them. They dont want MJ legalized. They make a ton of money acting like they are for legalization and get nothing but good press from the mj community for doing so.

I say fuck em. Theyve been at this shit for 40 years with very little to show. So if any of you donate to NORML - you got a better chance legalizing weed by sticking that money in a strippers shitbox then giving it to those jokers.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Bentom187, remember that major bridge that collapsed a few years ago? No private company came to the rescue. None ever submitted a bid to [themselves] rebuild the bridge. Because no private company is dumb enough to risk losing money on a boondoggle they most likely didn't themselves build.

Enter government. Get your corp of engineers and oversee enough private businesses to rebuild the bridge. It's like a general contractor w/o profit built into the general contracting. Everybody else in the private sector gets a check because business gets to make a profit.

That's the country you live in. The people that pit business against government and vice verse are just making noise. We've been a business/government hybrid since the beginning. As commerce, technology and societal necessity morph, government morphs with em.

 

[Anti]

SS kicks in at 65 because so many retire at 65. The powers that be are supposed to regulate the payout according to pay in.

I think the point about SS kicking in at 65 is that when SS was first enacted, the average working man was dying at 61, thus never actually getting to collect on it.

 

[bentom187]

"Sounds like a contradiction. All subsidized amenities only go to supporting industries, they [subsidized amenities] should have died off long ago yet society would still have those amenities.

Infrastructure isn't permanent and total private sector infrastructure and maintenance would cost so much that only the rich would enjoy them. "

no we wouldnt have payvment or sewage or the grid, we would have been forced long ago to find sustainable projects ,not the illusion of sustainable conveiniences.


"SS kicks in at 65 because so many retire at 65"

why do they pick 65 isnt that when SS kicks in ,its not a arbitrary number people choose.

"The powers that be are supposed to regulate the payout according to pay in."

i know its cliche' at this moment but ron pauls been saying it for decades its a ponzi scheme. i pay my hard earned money into a system and according to there constantly changing rules i should be denied my money i paid in. why because politicians have raided that trust. the govt doesnt offer a opt out ? so its worst ,in the fact they take it and you have no choice and no guarentee we'll ever reach that age.

"Lawmakers have borrowed against the trust but have also purchased bonds to finance payback."

WTF ? and this is ok ? bond are worthless espeacially since they are worth only what the govt can pay back(not to mention the time despairity 5-10-30 yr bonds),and thats with a completley devalued dollar that they keep printing. the money has never been returned not the original value anyway.

"Rich folks only have to pay the same dollar amount to qualify for full benefits as the lowest paid. They appreciate their SS checks just as much as we do and maybe you'll appreciate yours when you start receiving it."

there isnt a gurentee ill ever see the day im eligable.and i think the people that reguard retiring as the definition of making it, dont realize the same could be had ALOT earlier if their was a opt out and your own private account (i would keep it under my mattress so to speak) that couldnt be touched by politicians.
also the people who raid the trust,tell you the money they took is there,but in fact its there because they project they can cut out alot of people like future children who pay into it ,for our current payee's. PONZI. as long as they have fresh income weather they steal it or print it, they wont have to face justice.



"He's talking about SS and the myth that the opposition would continue it." it should have then we wouldnt be dealing with this. corrections could have been made,we just cicked the can to future generations. problem remains unresolved.

im not saying GW's plan was legit hes a dirty bastard,im sure he was waiting to pounce on somthing.
"SS money isn't tied up in rip off schemes for a reason"

but you must realize SS is the rip off scheme, hes prolly just trying to redirect proffits to himself.


"So, greedy capitalists are at a disadvantage, their oft offered 'free market' solutions will cure all ails (and then rip off the world.) So obviously they have to crow that it's really government that's evil"

we dont have capitolisim or freemarket now or in the past decades, there are people who oprate under that veil,mostly the establishment on both sides,to say we are free,to say we have free markets,to say we are capitolists, but by those very definitions we are not.

if we had free markets there would be 0 govt involvment ,do we have it no.
if we had capitalisim ,in simplistic terms there would be no problems if its kept private there would be people accountable to the courts for bad practices not to mention they wouldnt stay in business if no one likes them. (as long as the constitution reigns supreme)

the only people who have enough power to rip off the world are the world banks. and they do through govt.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... no we wouldnt have payvment or sewage or the grid, we would have been forced long ago to find sustainable projects ,not the illusion of sustainable conveiniences.

Hey, I know... we'll call conveniences projects. Just kidding. I'm not sure I'd like a world where somebody draws a line between what we are and what we can be. We can't burn out our candle but we can achieve greater good.

"SS kicks in at 65 because so many retire at 65"

why do they pick 65 isnt that when SS kicks in ,its not a arbitrary number people choose.

You can quit working whenever you want. In some circumstances you can draw partial benefits. But if you qualify, you get full benefits. It just makes economic sense to draw full bennys so that's what most people do.

You can get a job that pays you under the table and you don't have to contribute to FICA. Lots of people are in that boat and some are only living for today. Others desire to contribute and arrange it themselves so they'll have a level of income when they're too old to work.

i know its cliche' at this moment but ron pauls been saying it for decades its a ponzi scheme. i pay my hard earned money into a system and according to there constantly changing rules i should be denied my money i paid in.

According to the rules you should be denied bennys? Bruz, I love you but I don't know where some of this is coming from. We may have to manage numbers in ways that diminish benefits. The idea that somebody's gonna someday jerk the rug asunder ain't gonna happen. This isn't a black hole you're putting your money into. It's a system that's provided bennys for hundreds of millions of Americans. Every year you get a statement to review your contributions and whom to notify in case of error.

why because politicians have raided that trust. the govt doesnt offer a opt out ? so its worst ,in the fact they take it and you have no choice and no guarentee we'll ever reach that age.

Ever seen the talking fish that hangs on the wall? Uh, Billy Bass. You walk by and he cracks verbiage. The 'raided' reference is hogwash. All you have to do is read how bonds fund finance. Interest on bonds sold globally reimburses the trust. Folks that say it's a scam simply don't want SS. It's an endless argument yet the only time you don't get a check is when Republicans shut down government.

Like the USPS, SS is a self funding operation. One can't expect either to operate in an ever changing world according to yesterday's numbers. Part of their structure is to manage these changes in ways that sustain their systems, not allow them to wither on the vine. Will you see financial red flags? You certainly will and it's no different than the private sector.

WTF ? and this is ok ? bond are worthless espeacially since they are worth only what the govt can pay back(not to mention the time despairity 5-10-30 yr bonds),and thats with a completley devalued dollar that they keep printing. the money has never been returned not the original value anyway.

With all due respect my friend you're scanning the talking points. Remember the market dive a few weeks ago when S&P lowered our AAA rating? Bond sales went through the roof. Bond sales are a major part of US finance. You're driving to work on US Bonds. US Bonds make your power bill and gas bill affordable so capitalists can pay you as little as they can get away with.

Bonds pay the rate they're sold. It's guaranteed. No risk. Ever heard of diversifying your portfolio? A mix of broad based stocks and bonds is a low risk, long term strategy for financial security in your retirement.

Inflation may de valuate the return but the interest rate won't change. Your would would be a much darker and local place w/o finance and bonds are the vehicle.

there isnt a gurentee ill ever see the day im eligable.and i think the people that reguard retiring as the definition of making it, dont realize the same could be had ALOT earlier if their was a opt out and your own private account (i would keep it under my mattress so to speak) that couldnt be touched by politicians.
also the people who raid the trust,tell you the money they took is there,but in fact its there because they project they can cut out alot of people like future children who pay into it ,for our current payee's. PONZI. as long as they have fresh income weather they steal it or print it, they wont have to face justice.

Again, I think you're paying more attention to the imagined pitfalls of an un managed system that will drive itself off the cliff. There's no guarantee you and I will rise tomorrow morning but planning for the day we make nothing is too great a risk on us and society with zero safety net.

I'm sorry you're unhappy with a system you may very well draw more from than contribute to. It's a yin yang compromise from the folks that unfortunately died sooner. Maybe we'll die sooner but that no reason to plan on it.

You can finagle a job that pays under the table. The mainstay of construction pay goes unreported unless the individual personally opts in. I've had under table pay and lived for the moment. I also have considerable contributions so I'll still draw if and when I get there. Beats getting there with less money or no money. Lots of folks live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford the level of retirement income on their own.

Retired folks who have no source of income raise the prices of services you pay for. Comparing apples to apples shows that SS is better than having a society with millions more desperately poor.

"He's talking about SS and the myth that the opposition would continue it." it should have then we wouldnt be dealing with this. corrections could have been made,we just cicked the can to future generations. problem remains unresolved.

Rick Perry has a way of showing half a picture. The half he shows doesn't look too good and you shouldn't like it. But the pic isn't reality, it's Perryfied reality. Rick says Romney's Massachusetts healthcare plan cost the state 8 billion and lost 13,000 employees... end of statement (and Perryfied reality. ) They truth is, thousands would have lost the jobs and billions would have been spent w/o Romney's plan. The details might even show that Romney laid off less workers and spent less money than the old system would have. But you'll never know that by listening to Perry. Knowing current and recent events is important if we want to separate the wheat from the chaff.

im not saying GW's plan was legit hes a dirty bastard,im sure he was waiting to pounce on somthing.

but you must realize SS is the rip off scheme, hes prolly just trying to redirect proffits to himself.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the idea the money ain't there when tens of millions receive their benefits every month. Me thinks you don't like SS and I'm just fine with your opinion. But the scarecrow in the room ain't even made out of straw. It's an illusion.

we dont have capitolisim or freemarket now or in the past decades, there are people who oprate under that veil,mostly the establishment on both sides,to say we are free,to say we have free markets,to say we are capitolists, but by those very definitions we are not.

You can start a business and you can fold a business. All on your own and all at your discretion. Unless you go bankrupt or commit crime in the process. There's no such thing in society as unfettered freedom. If you're a fan of Ben Franklin (among others), he warned of too much freedom. Nobody sees their standard of living as impinging on the next guys freedom and then there's the guy thinking your freedom is free for him to take

if we had free markets there would be 0 govt involvment ,do we have it no.
if we had capitalisim ,in simplistic terms there would be no problems if its kept private there would be people accountable to the courts for bad practices not to mention they wouldnt stay in business if no one likes them. (as long as the constitution reigns supreme)

Run that one by Alan Greenspan. Alan used to think a cloud would deter bad market practices. He publicly acquiesced that the cloud (self-regulating markets) is a myth. Bad market practices went on steroids because there was nothing to stop them. The market didn't even roll over, it just popped.

You mentioned this thread wasn't concentrating on the subject matter so you'd contribute. I must say we were at least debating more current opportunities than the purpose of government itself.

 

[bentom187]

"You can quit working whenever you want. In some circumstances you can draw partial benefits. But if you qualify, you get full benefits. It just makes economic sense to draw full bennys so that's what most people do.

You can get a job that pays you under the table and you don't have to contribute to FICA. Lots of people are in that boat and some are only living for today. Others desire to contribute and arrange it themselves so they'll have a level of income when they're too old to work."

whoa,is this still DB ?lol, RP has been advocating a opt out option for a while,so we dont have to hide.


"According to the rules you should be denied bennys? Bruz, I love you but I don't know where some of this is coming from. We may have to manage numbers in ways that diminish benefits. The idea that somebody's gonna someday jerk the rug asunder ain't gonna happen. This isn't a black hole you're putting your money into. It's a system that's provided bennys for hundreds of millions of Americans. Every year you get a statement to review your contributions and whom to notify in case of error."

thanks, i meant that under the current rules i HAVE been denied benny's and it ain gettin easier,and i see what a detriment it is to society ,im just gonna vote for the best chance of receiving a legit job,instead of leaching off people. (this is after 4 1/2 years of unemployment and some( not long) homlessness).

"Interest on bonds sold globally reimburses the trust." yes but not the equal value of labor you put in at the time,the trust is payed with a devalued dollar meaning you would have to work more today to put the same amount in back then. wich mean future payee's must put in more work to cover projected costs ,wich will never happen with more people dependant on social programs and less and less jobs.

and i beleive the USPS is similar as a leagle entity as the FED, it says US but its private.


"
With all due respect my friend you're scanning the talking points. Remember the market dive a few weeks ago when S&P lowered our AAA rating? Bond sales went through the roof. Bond sales are a major part of US finance. You're driving to work on US Bonds. US Bonds make your power bill and gas bill affordable so capitalists can pay you as little as they can get away with.

Bonds pay the rate they're sold. It's guaranteed. No risk. Ever heard of diversifying your portfolio? A mix of broad based stocks and bonds is a low risk, long term strategy for financial security in your retirement.

Inflation may de valuate the return but the interest rate won't change. Your would would be a much darker and local place w/o finance and bonds are the vehicle."

they push bonds cause the people buying them dont realize they are junk and a excuse to print more,sure you wanna hold a a usless 30 yr bond by all means buy away. also the FED dictates the intrest i would guess thats profit on the bond the purchaser wishes to make ,but i beleive right now they are near 0 ,but when inflation comes around and it will we will be paying heavily to those holders. but for now they are at 0.and the more buyers there are the worst its gonna be.



"

Rick Perry has a way of showing half a picture. The half he shows doesn't look too good and you shouldn't like it. But the pic isn't reality, it's Perryfied reality. Rick says Romney's Massachusetts healthcare plan cost the state 8 billion and lost 13,000 employees... end of statement (and Perryfied reality. ) They truth is, thousands would have lost the jobs and billions would have been spent w/o Romney's plan. The details might even show that Romney laid off less workers and spent less money than the old system would have. But you'll never know that by listening to Perry. Knowing current and recent events is important if we want to separate the wheat from the chaff. "


mmmmm i hate both of'em , im from romney-ville, and can see through perries builderburg BS all day.
my state isnt in good shape and i get denied for most medical expenses. and the taxes are through the roof and no minimum wage doesnt keep up.

"Sorry, I don't subscribe to the idea the money ain't there when tens of millions receive their benefits every month. Me thinks you don't like SS and I'm just fine with your opinion. But the scarecrow in the room ain't even made out of straw. It's an illusion. "

they own a printing press and can issue debt backed currencey,anytime they want, it doesnt mean we can pay for it,it just means they can print it on demand.
if SS can work sure im for retiring,but it doent. Its a ponzi. never meant to work just make people pay into a system and worry about there whinning later when they are denied.

"You can start a business and you can fold a business. All on your own and all at your discretion. Unless you go bankrupt or commit crime in the process. There's no such thing in society as unfettered freedom. If you're a fan of Ben Franklin (among others), he warned of too much freedom. Nobody sees their standard of living as impinging on the next guys freedom and then there's the guy thinking your freedom is free for him to take"

thats what the courts are for, and im not sure about the ben franklin thing
because he also said this.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)

"Run that one by Alan Greenspan. Alan used to think a cloud would deter bad market practices. He publicly acquiesced that the cloud (self-regulating markets) is a myth. Bad market practices went on steroids because there was nothing to stop them. The market didn't even roll over, it just popped."

alan greespan was a fraud,he openly stated he beleived in free markets while heading the bank that regulates them. wich is a huge contridiction.

i didnt get the notion that this was gonna stay on topic,i tried but here we are.