Pit Bull responsibility

[zamalito]

The same reason people who want attack dogs get german shepherds. The most common schutzhund dog is a german shepherd. I'm not saying schutzhund training is bad but if its any less than perfect it can cause problems. They also scare people because of the media attention. I first hand know of many many attacks caused by german shepherds. Yet I have yet to hear of a german shepherd attack in the media. Like I said before in my state almost the entire police dog population is made up of overaggressive german shepherds. However, like pitbulls many of the german shepherd attacks could've been prevented just like pitbull attacks.

 

[NiteTiger]

Thats true police dogs usually are german sheperds aren't they?

Funny how media and such can give anyone or anything a bad rep or a good one, huh?

Actually, if you're in the US, most departments use Belgian Malinois. Very similar in shape and coloration as the German Shepard, so it's a common misconception.

 

[BruceLeeroy]

yeah, they are very similar looking but in my experience worlds apart in demeanor. german shepards are much more mild mannered and submissive as a whole than most peolpe give them credit for. they aren't as aggressive as the malinois. they are after all "shepard" dogs. they are amazing for herding work.

the fact is that a dogs behavior is not determine by breed imo, but by training and environment. it's been proven humans that excepting certain very general traits, nurture > nature.

peace

 

[jahsin]

man i got ripped up by a "pig" dog once!! that fucker ripped my legs up!! the pig stood ova top of us for like 1min sayn get him get him...goodboy!! here in nz the pigs use german shepards!! wen i was a kid i got bitten on the face by one too!! but thats the differance!! pittys are real good wit kids!! have a look at stats!! i bet jah....more germ.sheps have attacked more kids than pittys!! just cause a pitt can do more damage is besides the point!!

 

[zamalito]

Aren't malinois hearding dogs also? In my state malinois are pretty rare. I actually like malinois, belgian sheepdogs, laekenois, tervueren, etc more than german shepherds just personal experience/preference though. I only know one malinois and one belgian sheepdog personally every other time I've met one its just been briefly in passing. In the state I live maybe the german shepherd lines are more fucked up than where you guys live. They got real popular in the 80s and lots of people really bred them bad. There's also not much herding in my state so all of the germans are attack dog lines. The belgian shpherd typ dogs don't vary in size quite so much or grow into 110 lb giants like germans. Malinois in particular have a much easier to manage coat, too. Anyway in the state I live I've never seen a malinois police dog they are more common in the schutzhund competitions though. Like I said most cop dogs are donated because they're too aggressive for civilian use and require extensive training to be manageable. But in my experience the less manageable a dog is the more potential it has if its trained well so I guess its not quite as bad as it sounds.

 

[zamalito]

And bruce you're absolutely right. This is basically a nature vs nurture debate isn't it? I didn't think of it that way.

The easiest way to tell the difference between a malinois and the germans is the butt and how their back legs are. Germans have that sloaped butt and keep their back feet way behind them. Its really hard to tell between the various dutch shepherds and the various belgians shepherd types. Smooth haired dutch shephers and malinois, longhaired dutch and belgian sheepdog, etc. There are a few pretty aggro shepherd dogs. Since in some areas wolves prey on sheep oftentimes they would use wolves to breed some of these shepherd dogs. If they are just used to actually herd like a border collie they don't have much aggressive tendencies but if they have to protect the sheep like presa canarios or czech wolfdogs which are basically a german shepherd timber wolf cross these dogs are pretty nutty and a lot less domesticated. But yeah with a good experienced owner any dog will be great

 

[BruceLeeroy]

yeah, i live in cattle country and alot of the dogs that many people think of as "attack" dogs are used to herd here, and they are indispensible. i get a kick out of the fact that so many people have absolutely no understanding of where their food comes from. the thing i like best about herding/shephard dogs is that they really show just how intelligent a dog is. not that they're more intelligent than other breeds, just that you get to see it in a real world environment when a shepard rounds up a few stray calves and brings em back to you.

i want to share a story i heard years ago. it was reported on the news at the time, so i imagine it must have been "for real". this farm family had a rottweiler ( i think it was) which many of you may think of as a viscious breed but some of you may know is so patheticly cuddly that they are lap dogs. barring of course threats to their family or "pack" anyway i digress. one night, a coyote got into the chicken coop and killed several chickens that had laid eggs and were waiting to hatch. this dog spent the next few weeks SITTING ON THESE EGGS!!!! the dog would spend every spare moment sitting on the eggs, keeping them warm. the family had to bring the dog food so it wouldn't starve, and when the eggs hatched, the dog took over "mothering" them and even tried to bring the chicks dog food to eat. not sure if that story got any kind of national exposure or if it was just a local human interest story.

dogs are so much more than people give them credit for.

 

[BruceLeeroy]

and your right. anything with a shred of german shepard to it loses enough hair each spring to make SEVERAL dogs.

 

[zamalito]

Does anyone use american bulldogs for herding where you live? Great dogs. Although the 2 smartest dogs I've had contact with weren't herding dogs I do agree with you as a group you can't get much more intelligent than some of the herding breeds. Most people will say the smartest breed is a border collie they are hyper but damn intelligent. I think I mentioned this thing I saw where they took a dog from a very good sheep herding line that was 6 yrs old and had never seen a sheep in its life after 10 minutes around a flock it new exactly what to do and did it perfectly. That's amazing what you said about the egg laying shepherd and it shows how sensitive and intelligent dogs are. Much more than they're given credit for. Personally I prefer mastifs scent hounds and terriers to herding dogs. Though they can do amazing things I like sight hounds the least with a few exceptions. They seem the least manageable and tend to make poor companions and family dogs with definite exceptions. My dad bred bluetick coonhounds (scent hound) when I was young they can be amazingly smart. Like pitbulls they have a lot of character too. I've always liked the breeds with a bit of character. The thing about sight hounds is you see so many rich people in the city with them because of their price and their look. There's this one lady I see a lot. She's 300 lbs and has 2 scottish deerhounds and a whippet. I just don't see how this lady that's this overweight can give these dogs the exercise they need in the city. Also since sight hounds are bred to pick out chase and catch small animals they have a very strong prey drive and a strong instinct to bite anything small that runs away or squeeks like a baby or a little dog. Similar to scottish deerhounds Afghans are a sighthound really common among wealthy urbanites. They both look like puppets from fraggle rock or the dark crystal and aren't to my tastes visually. Many people say pits are ugly but I think these dogs are much more unattractive though it is just my taste and like any dog I could probably learn to love one.

 

[NiteTiger]

As far as intelligence, I've never met a smarter dog than a wolf hybrid. My aunt had one, and it was downright scary how smart this thing was.

We were wrestling one night, I was sitting on the floor with my back to the couch, playing with the dog and watching TV. Kachina (the wolf hybrid) kept coming at me from different angles, trying to slip past my hands. She finally figured out she couldn't, and left. I thought at the time she'd just gotten tired of playing. Wrong.

She went through the kitchen, out the pet door, in through the garage pet door and into the hallway. this let her sneak up to the couch from behind, where she somehow climbed up without me noticing, and the first clue I had that the game was still going was when she landed on me from behind.

That, and she never met a door she couldn't open, car doors included.

 

[BruceLeeroy]

thats hilarious nitetiger, reminds me of a moment with my redboned coonhound when he was about 6 months old. we had this large L shaped couch, and he liked to lay on the floor in the center of it. with two people sitting at opposite ends and a coffee table limiting his access to just going by our feet, we were playing with him and keeping him out. he'd try to go over my feet i'd raise em, he'd try to slip under i'm lower em. finally he gave up (i thought) and wandered around the side of the couch. we all shared a chuckle and went on in our conversation. that little bastard waited about 30 seconds into our conversation and comes FLYING around the corner of the couch and LEAPT through the air, hound dog ears streaming out behind him and cleared my legs by like a foot! the damn dog faked me out! i thought i was gonna die laughing.

i like just about all dogs but i agree that the sight hounds are some of IMO the least attractive.

peace

 

[Usagi]

yeah, they are very similar looking but in my experience worlds apart in demeanor. german shepards are much more mild mannered and submissive as a whole than most peolpe give them credit for. they aren't as aggressive as the malinois. they are after all "shepard" dogs. they are amazing for herding work.

the fact is that a dogs behavior is not determine by breed imo, but by training and environment. it's been proven humans that excepting certain very general traits, nurture > nature.

peace

I don't know if I would agree 100%. Like most working breeds there are German Shepherd from Show lines and from Working lines. If you buy Shepherd from working lines you will have a great dog, but he/she has a much tougher temperament than dogs from show lines. Personally I prefer dogs from working lines, but I wouldn't recommend them to unseasoned dog owners. They have tons of drive and higher aggression levels than regular GSDs. You have to put them to work in Schutzhund, French Ring, or some other dog sport.

I tried my hand at Schutzhund with my Giant Schnauzer. It was a lot of fun, but I did not have the time (or money) to keep up with it. We trained almost exclusively with German Shepherds and they were no pussy cats. However every now and then someone would bring his dog from show lines, and they would get left in the dust especially during protection work.

One last point - poorly bred dogs are more likely to bite humans than well bred ones. Puppy mills are notorious for producing dogs with bad nerves. IMHO backyard breeders aren't any better either.

 

[zamalito]

Thought you're right genetically I think the one advantage backyard breeders have is the ability to raise the dogs better in early life, and if a backyard breeder is selecting for ability to complete a working task and raises the dogs properly its not so bad. A close friend got a puppy mill lab who had pretty good pedigree and was one of the worst dogs I've ever met. First of all he was raised in a concrete floored pen for his first 3 1/2 months andhad never had contact with dirt and grass. So he was a nightmare to housebreak also having such little stimuli early on made him pretty stupid and he was aggressive. I think he was part of the reason one of my pits doesn't like dogs. They were both puppies together mine was about 8 mos and he was about 5 mos. Though mine would just try to wrestle. The lab would just chew and scratch on my dogs cheeks. Everytime I'd take him home my dogs cheeks would be bright pink. my dog still isn't aggressive he just avoids other dogs and growls to tell them to go away and still has never tried to bite another dog.

 

[Guest]

Phew!..I'm back for air! The youngin is laying in the cradle as we speak.


Check out the killers laying in front. They took to her pretty damn well(of course). P is really gentle, just sniffs and licks super gently. L on the other hand (my 11 year old breeder) wants to play. He loves kids-this is his 1st infant. He won't leave the craddles side. He wines. Pure pathetic.

 

[zamalito]

That's great man. Its good to hear from you. Your dogs look great too good build. My wide boy is only 4 and has hip problems he loves babies, too. The narrower ones like yours seem to have less of the hips probs. Good luck with the baby.

 

[Guest]

This is a female from my last litter. She is very stong, fast and capable. A true breeder. She is in heat now and soon to be bred.

 

[BruceLeeroy]

personally i find it odd that people would be afraid of your average pitbull. they simply are not that big of a dog. yeah dog bites suck but still, even if confronted with an angry rabid pitbull if a 180-200 lb man can't subdue/kill it then there's something wrong with the man lol.

i think it's great that people could be afraid of a pit bull and just think a st bernard or great dane or mastiff is just the bees knees. i'd way rather fight a pitbull lol

peace

 

[zamalito]

That's why they're so great for single women to have in the city. They scare people like a dog 3x their size but are easy to take care of and exercise. Uggh I'm leaving to go back to appalachia tonite. Ill miss you guys. Ill be around for an hour or 2 though. Did you ever get to see the corbin's kennels link I posted, seed? My female sounds a lot like the female you used to hunt with except she's only aggressive to females great nose insanely agile blah blah

 

[zamalito]

That's funny my female is in the peak of her heat now, too. Must be the breed. Her build is identical just a more terrier like head.

 

[Guest]

Yep, Corbin's used to be a household name...thanx for refreshing my memories.

I must say I'll miss the conversation Zam. You keep your powder dry and your head low. Be careful and I'll talk to you when you get back.


Seed