Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Avenger]

paint on tip explained:

taken from this pdf:
https://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_retrofitting_chambers.pdf

 

[Jhhnn]

Hi to all and thx for the info shared, inestimable.
in a clearance sale, i've bought four Philips CDM 210W 942 PGZX18 and two Philips DynaVision Prog Xt SON250 (suitable for the CDM 210 link ) for 100€.
Now, for my first indoor experience, in a closet of about 60x120cm (2x4ft) i want to use two 210W.
Are these lamp good enough to achieve a result?
Which is the best arrangement for two lamp in this space?
Can use these lamp in a cooltube?

thx

Two of those lamps in a 2x4 space will provide intense lighting. I'm getting excellent results w/ 40w per sq ft of CDM & you'll have over 50w per sq ft. Heat dissipation will be a major issue.

With that in mind, almost any arrangement will work.

They'll work fine in a cooltube. If your lamps do not have an inner quartz sleeve then you need to put them in an enclosed fixture of some sort.

 

[CHEFfy]

Thanks for the post Avenger... Got me ordering some rust-oleum 4200 aluminum paint,

 

[TheHighCompany]

Two of those lamps in a 2x4 space will provide intense lighting. I'm getting excellent results w/ 40w per sq ft of CDM & you'll have over 50w per sq ft. Heat dissipation will be a major issue.

With that in mind, almost any arrangement will work.

They'll work fine in a cooltube. If your lamps do not have an inner quartz sleeve then you need to put them in an enclosed fixture of some sort.

Thank you for replay Jhhnn,
My bulbs are pgzx18, suitable for open fixture, but i'm planning to build a closed enviroment box and my question is more about the position of the bulbs: vertical (with appropriate reflector ie phantoms cmh + lens kit, a bit costly and not so easy to find in europe) or a cooltube with goood reflector can do the job.

Bye

 

[Jhhnn]

Thank you for replay Jhhnn,
My bulbs are pgzx18, suitable for open fixture, but i'm planning to build a closed enviroment box and my question is more about the position of the bulbs: vertical (with appropriate reflector ie phantoms cmh + lens kit, a bit costly and not so easy to find in europe) or a cooltube with goood reflector can do the job.

Bye

I think you'll need some DIY skills to put them in a cooltube but also that reflectors matter more when you don't have plentiful light, when you're near the lower end of what works well.

You'll have enough power from 420w of CDM in that space that finesse won't be necessary, not when you have that kind of brute force. You might obtain satisfactory results using only 210w.

 

[McKush]

paint on tip explained:
View Image

taken from this pdf:
https://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_retrofitting_chambers.pdf

Cheers Avenger, your a champ and thx for the link. I never saw that one on their site.

So it is cycloptics doing that application of aluminum based paint to the end casing of the 315 to kill a hot spot when bulb is mounted vertically.

That is what i assumed but wasnt sure if it was some sort of RF blocker though.

That speaks alot for cycloptics and their effort to get it right

 

[TheHighCompany]

I think you'll need some DIY skills to put them in a cooltube but also that reflectors matter more when you don't have plentiful light, when you're near the lower end of what works well.

You'll have enough power from 420w of CDM in that space that finesse won't be necessary, not when you have that kind of brute force. You might obtain satisfactory results using only 210w.

the 1 light solution can be a problem due the footprint of my closet (2x4ft).
why you think i need DIY skill? i'm just planning to join two tubes like this with a bit of flexible duct, not so hard to do, i think.

 

[Jhhnn]

the 1 light solution can be a problem due the footprint of my closet (2x4ft).
why you think i need DIY skill? i'm just planning to join two tubes like this with a bit of flexible duct, not so hard to do, i think.

I misunderstood. It won't take much to do that if you use mogul socket adapters.

I did it the other way, mounted PGZ holders in an existing reflector-

 

[TheHighCompany]

I misunderstood. It won't take much to do that if you use mogul socket adapters.

I did it the other way, mounted PGZ holders in an existing reflector-

View Image

Great job Jhhnn, but with that solution you have a big increment of light and a modest increment of "covered area", instead, my plan is to obtain a even distribution of light.

A clarification
the Philips DynaVision Prog Xt SON250 ballasts are suitable for CDMe 210W but must be programmed via DALI programmer like this

 

[Jhhnn]

Great job Jhhnn, but with that solution you have a big increment of light and a modest increment of "covered area", instead, my plan is to obtain a even distribution of light.

A clarification
the Philips DynaVision Prog Xt SON250 ballasts are suitable for CDMe 210W but must be programmed via DALI programmer like this

I think that there's a point of diminished returns wrt light intensity. At some point, the plants can't use more light. And while uniformity is a good thing it's not as important when using brute force in a reflectorized enclosure, even if it's just flat white paint like mine. Light bounces into the plants from all directions, particularly coming from 2 sources.

I stripped away a few yellowing leaves for this pic of a branch way down in the corner away from the light-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=52773&pictureid=1527062

I'm using 37w/ sq ft of CDM. You propose using over 50w/ sq ft. Choice of reflectors won't make much difference. Trust me. It's like high noon in the tropics on a cloudless day, all day every day.

 

[beta]

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[Jhhnn]

Woah, that new Hydrofarm Phantom CMh kit w/ air cooled hood add-on looks perfect! Is there any reason to be skeptical of their product, or should it be good to go?

Dunno. I have no experience with their ballasts. The hood design does not cool the lamp directly but rather the backside of the reflective aluminum which means higher glass temps & somewhat greater heat transfer to the enclosure. How much is hard to say.

Be brave. Buy some & tell us about it. The ballast has a 3 year warranty.

 

[rives]

I think that there's a point of diminished returns wrt light intensity. At some point, the plants can't use more light. And while uniformity is a good thing it's not as important when using brute force in a reflectorized enclosure, even if it's just flat white paint like mine. Light bounces into the plants from all directions, particularly coming from 2 sources.

I stripped away a few yellowing leaves for this pic of a branch way down in the corner away from the light-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=52773&pictureid=1527062

I'm using 37w/ sq ft of CDM. You propose using over 50w/ sq ft. Choice of reflectors won't make much difference. Trust me. It's like high noon in the tropics on a cloudless day, all day every day.

My small tent is 30" x 30" with a single 315, which gives right a 50w/square foot. My larger tent in 48" x 48", and runs (2) 315's for
39w/square foot. I don't see a great deal of difference in yield between them, but the smaller one does seem to have a slight edge.

 

[Avenger]

hydrofarm has finally listed their new phantom 315 ballast separate from the reflector package.
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHBC3150

 

[beta]

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[Jhhnn]

Which tent are you using that's 30"x30"? I'm looking to run 2 of these 315s, would you recommend 2x 30"x30" tents or the single 48"x48" overall? How are you fitting 2 hoods in the big tent?

My math says 2x 315W in a 48"x48" tent is 43.75w/ft^2, am I calculating wrong?

Your math is slightly off. 630w divided by 16 sq ft= 39.375 watts per sq ft.

My non-standard space is ~17 sq ft. Two T9 930's work great.

 

[beta]

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[rives]

Which tent are you using that's 30"x30"? I'm looking to run 2 of these 315s, would you recommend 2x 30"x30" tents or the single 48"x48" overall? How are you fitting 2 hoods in the big tent?

My math says 2x 315W in a 48"x48" tent is 43.75w/ft^2, am I calculating wrong?

The smaller tent is a GrowLab GL80.

The choice of 1 or 2 tents depends on what you want to do. The smaller tent can only hold about 3 plants (4 if you keep them small), where the larger tent can easily handle 9. If you want to run all one strain at a time, the larger tent probably makes better sense for optimizing the space. I like the flexibility of having both, the small tent can be used as a feeder spot to veg in, or for drying, etc.

The hoods that I use easily fit into the 4' tent side-by-side. They are the 600w Bell Lighting hoods. They may be hard to find now, though - it looks like West Coast Growers only carries the 1000w model at this time.

As Jhhnn pointed out above, there is an error in your calculation somewhere. *edit* whoops, typing while you were answering.

 

[milkyjoe]

hydrofarm has finally listed their new phantom 315 ballast separate from the reflector package.
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHBC3150

Avenger...lets say 60 of these, 60 grrenbeams or 20 de...is it possible to justify the 315s...particularly the greenbeams?

Anything quantifiable on reduced cycle or quality?

Lets just say 2 lbs a light de...say 2 lbs/3 lights 315s. 40 lbs at 2k...80k per grow. Des...10k...greenbeams 30 k. Both less than 1/2 grow payback.

Why am I hesitating?

 

[frostqueen]

Avenger...lets say 60 of these, 60 grrenbeams or 20 de...is it possible to justify the 315s...particularly the greenbeams?

Anything quantifiable on reduced cycle or quality?

Lets just say 2 lbs a light de...say 2 lbs/3 lights 315s. 40 lbs at 2k...80k per grow. Des...10k...greenbeams 30 k. Both less than 1/2 grow payback.

Why am I hesitating?

Your numbers seem off. 2 pounds from two 315s would be no problem from what everyone is saying. One third less electricity and one third less heat are also big plusses.

You are hesitating because of the expense! But these phantom systems have now brought plug and play CMH into an affordable zone. Greenbeams are definitely top notch, but I'm not personally going to pay hundreds more for a system when the phantom hood should give very similar results.