Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[rives]

rives;
Would you care to give us a thought on flip floping these? Like a relay recomendation? Or, a neat circuit for killing power to the ballast and flipping and repowering? For those not using some sort of digital controller...

I don't think that the Philips ballast will work well with a hot flip because of the protective circuitry built in. In order to do a cold flip, I would recommend going to some type of a smart relay just for the ease of coordinating timers, but it could be done with a couple of battery-backed digital timers that had their clocks and timing cycles synchronized. Timer (A) would be set up for the ballast power and programmed to turn on for 11 hour and fifty minutes, turn off for 10 minutes, and repeat. Timer (B) would drive the flip relay and turn on at 11 hours and fifty-five minutes, turn off 12 hours later, repeat.

This would allow the ballast to turn off, 5 minutes later the flip relay would transition, and 5 minutes after that the ballast would power back up. The flip relay would have the common contacts on a DPDT relay fed with the ballast output, the normally closed contacts would feed the lamp in room #1 and the normally open contacts would feed the lamp in room #2.

A good relay for both functions would be this one - http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2C-120A

The cord between the ballast and the lamps should be SO cord because of the higher voltage.

 

[CHEFfy]

Damn someone found my stash of ballasts on the bay

I'm not sorry!

 

[McKush]

What is a good starting height for a greenbeam over seedlings?

Im starting at 36" but not familiar with this fixture and how powerful the 942 bulb is...

 

[frostqueen]

I just found this post about welthink ballasts. Ouch.

Important to note that this was in 2010. Maybe they got their act together since then...?

http://www.rollitup.org/t/welthink-ballasts-warning.291767/

 

[rives]

I just found this post about welthink ballasts. Ouch.

Important to note that this was in 2010. Maybe they got their act together since then...?

http://www.rollitup.org/t/welthink-ballasts-warning.291767/

Damn!

The only thing that I've heard about the 315 version is that they don't put out quite the same level of light as the Philips' ballast. As Jhhnn pointed out up above, the Philips ballasts are industrial quality and not likely to be even roughly comparable to Chinese "consumer goods". Pay me now, or pay me later.....

 

[Jhhnn]

I just found this post about welthink ballasts. Ouch.

Important to note that this was in 2010. Maybe they got their act together since then...?

http://www.rollitup.org/t/welthink-ballasts-warning.291767/

I poked at it with Google for awhile, couldn't find anything else like that 5 year old lament. Hell- it's not even the same ballast.

I did find a couple of posts in cannabis forums alleging bad reviews w/o actually linking to them. Which isn't to say that I'm touting them, at all. Given the upsurge of interest in 315's I figure if Welthinks were crap there would be plenty of people telling us, that's all.

So far as I know, they've been the only 120v 315 ballast available up to this point so there must be many thousands in operation w/o much squawking. Probably decent stuff. The new ones being used w/ greenbeams may be good, too. Only time will tell. That's true of my bargain used ceramatec ballasts as well. So far, so good.

 

[CHEFfy]

all said and done, shipped to my door I am at about 320 a unit. Ballast, phantom reflector, 4200k bulbs and 240v ballast cords. If the ballasts crap out after the one year warranty expires, oh well. I'm sure there will be a bevy of new ballasts available.

 

[frostqueen]

Agreed. Don't get me wrong: I'd love to order a bunch of plug and play ballasts at that price!

I didn't find anything else negative or positive about welthinks, either. It would seem like if any company had issues with manufacture that they would have just made design tweaks. The fact that they are still in business is a pretty good sign. I find the lack of internet discussion puzzling.

Another thing I still don't get is why welthink doesn't have more US distribution happening after 5 years. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but anyone offering a decent plug and play 315 CMH ballast for ~$150 retail is going to get riiich, with cycloptics' $240+ ballast being the only other available option (aside from DIY options discussed here). Taking into account that most growers out there probably aren't up for a DIY project.

Leaning heavily towards the Philips now. I can deal with the wiring and cost if they will last I guess. Let us know how those welthinks work out.

 

[Unclecrash]

I'm not sorry!

wasn't you if they were used or other than phillips.

 

[frostqueen]

Ugh. I forgot that two of my rooms will be 120v., so I guess I'd need step-up transformers for the Philips ballasts. Which I am currently 100% clueless about.

One room will have 8 fixtures, one will have 3. Do I need a step-up for each fixture? Any links for some good options? Or is this something that will make me re-think this as too much hassle/expense? I'm wondering where the lighting timer/controller goes, with 120v out of the wall and then stepped up to 220v... guess who *isn't* an electrical genius here?

My third room will be 8 lights @ 220v., so Philips for sure there. The 3 light veg room is due to happen in the next few weeks, though...

 

[rives]

A loaded ballast specs out at 342 watts. Figure on a 500w transformer (.5 kva) per 315 if running individually. A .75 kva should handle 2 of them but will need slow-blow fusing, and a 1.5 kva would be needed for three. Amazon, at least, seems to jump from a .5 to a 1 to 2, so a .75 and a 1.5 may be difficult to find.

If I was going with an industrial quality transformer, I would put all of the lights behind a single transformer but it would be pretty spendy. The Amazon 500 watt units are under $30/each. For that price, I think that I would go with dedicated units for each ballast and put a spare on the shelf.

The light controller can either go in front of the transformer on the 120v, or between the transformer and the ballast on the 240v. There would be some power wasted (and heat generated) if the transformer is left energized all the time and the 240v switched.

How difficult would it be in your 8-light room to either run 240v in or convert an existing circuit from 120v to 240v? You are going to need at least a 30a circuit on 120v to run 8 lights, and that is a very tight squeeze. It's unlikely that you have that size 120v circuit available. On the other hand, a 20a 240v circuit on #12 wire would easily handle it, so an existing circuit could be changed from 120v to 240v if it was wired with #12.

 

[mr eddy]

I pulled the trigger on the light seattle hydroponics is selling plug an play ready to go $348 bucks Phillips ballast with bulb on my door step in 4 day's and it didn't look anything like the picture on the web sight it's a very good simple design. I would recommend giving this shop a call or email for anyone thinking about a light . I must have sent 12 emails or so an more often than not got a response in a few hrs. and both times I called the owner picked up ..
Just my 2 cents

 

[frostqueen]

A loaded ballast specs out at 342 watts. Figure on a 500w transformer (.5 kva) per 315 if running individually. A .75 kva should handle 2 of them but will need slow-blow fusing, and a 1.5 kva would be needed for three. Amazon, at least, seems to jump from a .5 to a 1 to 2, so a .75 and a 1.5 may be difficult to find.

If I was going with an industrial quality transformer, I would put all of the lights behind a single transformer but it would be pretty spendy. The Amazon 500 watt units are under $30/each. For that price, I think that I would go with dedicated units for each ballast and put a spare on the shelf.

The light controller can either go in front of the transformer on the 120v, or between the transformer and the ballast on the 240v. There would be some power wasted (and heat generated) if the transformer is left energized all the time and the 240v switched.

How difficult would it be in your 8-light room to either run 240v in or convert an existing circuit from 120v to 240v? You are going to need at least a 30a circuit on 120v to run 8 lights, and that is a very tight squeeze. It's unlikely that you have that size 120v circuit available. On the other hand, a 20a 240v circuit on #12 wire would easily handle it, so an existing circuit could be changed from 120v to 240v if it was wired with #12.

Hey, thank you for the info, Rives. That will totally get me there.

I have two dedicated 20A 120v circuits in there. But! it turns out I can divert an existing dedicated 240v 50A sub panel in the garage to the second 8 light room, so the main rooms are settled with 240v now. For the 3 light veg room I can do as you suggested. Or... should I treat myself to some greenbeams in veg?

 

[beta]

.

 

[Jhhnn]

Did anyone figure out which ballast they're using in the Cycloptics conversion kit? Is the mogul > PGZ18 adapter in this kit safe to use?

Dunno why they wouldn't be safe. Hard to tell from the pic but the metal frame of the holder is almost certainly isolated from the circuitry. I wouldn't hesitate to use them if they suited my purposes.

 

[tenthirty]

Cycloptics is now supplying its own UL/cUL 120V, 240V and 277V square wave PARGrow™ ballast to replace the 120V/240V Welthink it used to supply with its Greenbeams luminaire.
The primary reason for the switch being the inconsistent quality of the 120V Welthink.
Cycloptics has also add 120V and 240V conversion kits to enable mogul base reflectors to operate the PGZX18 protected, open rated 315W CMH lamps or to operate the lamps in a bare bulb configuration.

 

[frostqueen]

Cycloptics is now supplying its own UL/cUL 120V, 240V and 277V square wave PARGrow™ ballast to replace the 120V/240V Welthink it used to supply with its Greenbeams luminaire.
The primary reason for the switch being the inconsistent quality of the 120V Welthink.
Cycloptics has also add 120V and 240V conversion kits to enable mogul base reflectors to operate the PGZX18 protected, open rated 315W CMH lamps or to operate the lamps in a bare bulb configuration.

Hmm. I thought those old Cycloptics ballasts looked like welthinks. That explains why they are charging $240 for the new version.

 

[wumpyc]

Subbed

 

[frostqueen]

So, I found this 315w CMH option today: the Phantom reflector can also be found in a kit with a 120/240v ballast and a bulb. Full retail for $480, so it can likely be found from a dealer for quite a bit cheaper. I haven't had any time to look around at who sells this yet. The ballast doesn't appear to be sold separately.

https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHR31504KT

 

[CHEFfy]

Think those are welthink ballasts with new end caps slapped on...