Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[milkyjoe]

Cycle time is one of those things in the back of me mind. A for sure extra cycle per yr and this is a no brainer. Is there enough data?

Quality...no real question in my mind. Can I market that...big question

Circumstantial evidence points one direction...but???

 

[timmur]

Cycle time is one of those things in the back of me mind. A for sure extra cycle per yr and this is a no brainer. Is there enough data?

Quality...no real question in my mind. Can I market that...big question

Circumstantial evidence points one direction...but???

Anecdotal evidence says that you can squeeze one more cycle in per year. I've seen reports of fairly large rooms that have made the claims and they seem legit.

As for quality, can you talk about improved terpine profile? That should be worth a little more.

Check out this link.

 

[milkyjoe]

If I picked up one cycle in 2 yrs (life of the bulbs) it is wort it. Probably cost 30K over current bulb replacement...1 cycle 80K. Its that anecdotal part

 

[Jhhnn]

If I picked up one cycle in 2 yrs (life of the bulbs) it is wort it. Probably cost 30K over current bulb replacement...1 cycle 80K. Its that anecdotal part

I can't say because I haven't grown any strain consistently. People who grow a particular strain for market, who know their product well would be in a position to make those judgements. If everything else remains the same only then can changes be attributed to a change in any single variable like lighting.

If I were in the business, I'd test new tech to evaluate it, switch over when I liked the results well enough to justify the expense. If I were contemplating entering the market I'd probably want to keep upfront costs & operating expenses low, find the point of diminished returns. For commercial growers, that appears to be DE tech ATM.

 

[McKush]

I wont be able to do it but i would love to see 3x GBs tested against a single epap (or gavita depending on your pref). Not sure how you could set that up fairly tho, 3 fixtures against 1 after all.

 

[frostqueen]

Anecdotal evidence says that you can squeeze one more cycle in per year. I've seen reports of fairly large rooms that have made the claims and they seem legit.

As for quality, can you talk about improved terpine profile? That should be worth a little more.

Check out this link.

Interesting link. I noticed that they used six 315s in a 12 x 9 area; so, about a 4 foot spread. That seems a bit wide...? I had planned on going with eight lights in a ~12 x 8 room, giving a ~36" spread over a 12 x 6 area.

Either way, I continue to really like what I am hearing about CMH.

 

[Hammerhead]

E-PAPS don't have the same PAR at the canopy vs Gavita IME. I use both in my flower room. I have the EPAP in the middle becuse of the side lighting the EPAP has.. I get better overlaping having The Gavitas on the the opposite sides. When I take par readings moving left to right or right to left they always drop off when I get to the middle. I lov my LEC I use in veg. Plants have responded very well since I changed out the 600mh.

 

[McKush]

in my room configuration (5x6ish) i like the epap reflector design which is why i went with it over the gavita. both fixtures are great though. I can see putting a GB on either side of the epap for a total 1,600w similar to that one sun systems unit. But i'm not ready to add another 600w until i assess how adding this GB light turns out in my environment.

 

[Avinash.miles]

i've received and setup 2 of the 315w wellthink setups from rocky mountain grow lites, both are using the socket adapters, one is remote ballast one is not, looks like i'll be getting one of the phantoms also. plan on using all 3 in a 4'x8' tent over 3 beds of organic soil.
next door will be another 4'x8' tent with 2 hps over organic soil beds

 

[timmur]

Interesting link. I noticed that they used six 315s in a 12 x 9 area; so, about a 4 foot spread. That seems a bit wide...? I had planned on going with eight lights in a ~12 x 8 room, giving a ~36" spread over a 12 x 6 area.

Either way, I continue to really like what I am hearing about CMH.

Hey frostqueen, the number of Greenbeams required in a 12 x 8 room would depend on if you follow Cycloptics recommendations as they light the room, not the canopy. Following their recommendations would likely require 12 lights in that space if you're shooting for about 750 µmol/m²s.

Really depends on which bulb you choose the Agro or 942. Also depends on your target PPF and what you cover your walls with. Using Orca makes the most sense with Greenbeams as they like using the room to deliver photons.

The pic below is for a 4 x 8 room that was modeled by Cycloptics for Scrappy-doo and you can see that it required 6 lights to deliver about 630 µmol/m²s at 66 inches from the reflectors; obviously that number goes up as the plants get closer to the light. At 20 inches from the lights the predicted PPF is about 1,000.

Of course you can run the lights closer to the canopy, but the uniformity will be worse. That's why they mount the lights high and add the required number of luminaires to get to the target PPF: better uniformity.

With all of that said, I think Scrappy used 3 lights in a 5 x 10 and kept them at about 3 foot from the canopy and had great results. Just understand this is not how they recommend that you set up your room. Very expensive to do it like they say. Probably takes at least 3 or 4 Greenbeams to replace a DE Gavita. This is why people don't run them; they are super expensive when you run them as recommended.

 

[frostqueen]

Hey frostqueen, the number of Greenbeams required in a 12 x 8 room would depend on if you follow Cycloptics recommendations as they light the room, not the canopy. Following their recommendations would likely require 12 lights in that space if you're shooting for about 750 µmol/m²s.

Really depends on which bulb you choose the Agro or 942. Also depends on your target PPF and what you cover your walls with. Using Orca makes the most sense with Greenbeams as they like using the room to deliver photons.

The pic below is for a 4 x 8 room that was modeled by Cycloptics for Scrappy-doo and you can see that it required 6 lights to deliver about 630 µmol/m²s at 66 inches from the reflectors; obviously that number goes up as the plants get closer to the light. At 20 inches from the lights the predicted PPF is about 1,000.

Of course you can run the lights closer to the canopy, but the uniformity will be worse. That's why they mount the lights high and add the required number of luminaires to get to the target PPF: better uniformity.

With all of that said, I think Scrappy used 3 lights in a 5 x 10 and kept them at about 3 foot from the canopy and had great results. Just understand this is not how they recommend that you set up your room. Very expensive to do it like they say. Probably takes at least 3 or 4 Greenbeams to replace a DE Gavita. This is why people don't run them; they are super expensive when you run them as recommended.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61621&pictureid=1487714&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Wow, great info! Thanks. I'm working with 8 foot ceilings, and my preferred canopy is 48"-54". So I'm looking at about 30"-40" typical distance if I bolt to the ceiling (which is my intention).

I am all about adopting this concept of lighting the entire 12x6 area evenly (2 feet open at the front) and getting away from thinking in terms of fixture footprints. I hang 1" foam boards - 2 x 4 feet - from the ceiling to reflect light back in at the front. I like Cycloptic's concept of wall reflection. I use Solar White bathroom epoxy on the walls, semigloss. Bright as hell. Not a big fan of films on the walls.

It'll probably end up being Phantoms for me. I do envy Greenbeams owners, but I don't think I'll take it quite to that level. 8 Phantoms in two rows of 4 should do it nicely. I am ufortunately not one to start measuring PPF and crunching numbers. Possibly to my loss, but so it is. Close is close enough for me. I have spent too many years now chasing that 5% improvement to great time and expense.

People I know are telling me to just go with the 942 in both veg and flower. I have a dedicated veg area, so I suppose I could even do both if it were worth it.

 

[Hammerhead]

if u have an enclosed fixture I found these. I think this is a good price. Its less than I paid for my Open fixture bulbs. I think I paid 60$ for the 930 U/O..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Mas...500120?hash=item33a9f15f18:g:22YAAOSw0HVWAxVa

 

[beta]

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[s20]

what is the best reflector with a deep penetration like a box reflector with miro aluminium also does anyone know a good heatsink for the phillips ballast

 

[Jhhnn]

Still having a really hard time find a tent that'll be a good fit for two of the Phantom 315s - Does anyone make a 3' x 6' tent? Buying two 3'x3' tents seems like an awful waste of money and overlapping light. Halp!

There's a 3x5-

http://hydrobuilder.com/secret-jardin-wide-dark-room-2-5-3-x-5-x-6-6.html

42w/ sq ft

 

[s20]

what is the best reflector that has deep penetration with miro aluminium also does anyone know a good heatsink for the phillips ballast

what about the lumenarc mini and lummen bright mini's are they anygood

 

[Jhhnn]

what is the best reflector that has deep penetration with miro aluminium also does anyone know a good heatsink for the phillips ballast

what about the lumenarc mini and lummen bright mini's are they anygood

The lumenarcs are marketed to reef aquarists & nobody here seems to have any experience with them. Dunno that they have models built for PGZ18 lamps. The phantom reflectors discussed over the last few pages look like they're what you want.

The Philips ballasts apparently don't need a heatsink when used outside a fixture w/ the back open. Wouldn't hurt to have one, of course, so watching on ebay will probably get a decent price. Rives mounted his in aluminum boxes, iirc.

 

[rives]

Yes, my single-ballast installation went into an aluminum enclosure. I used a small piece of aluminum scrap to bridge the gap between the exposed sink area on the ballast and the side of enclosure, but I'm not convinced that it really needed it. The ballasts only dissipate 17 watts and run very close to ambient temperature.

 

[Hammerhead]

Yes, my single-ballast installation went into an aluminum enclosure. I used a small piece of aluminum scrap to bridge the gap between the exposed sink area on the ballast and the side of enclosure, but I'm not convinced that it really needed it. The ballasts only dissipate 17 watts and run very close to ambient temperature.

View Image

Is there a single post that has all the parts to build that ??..Might be my best option that wont cost me 300$...Could you let me know the major components. I would need a 120-240v ballast. I can figure out the rest.

 

[iuredbud]

Hey frostqueen, the number of Greenbeams required in a 12 x 8 room would depend on if you follow Cycloptics recommendations as they light the room, not the canopy. Following their recommendations would likely require 12 lights in that space if you're shooting for about 750 µmol/m²s.

Really depends on which bulb you choose the Agro or 942. Also depends on your target PPF and what you cover your walls with. Using Orca makes the most sense with Greenbeams as they like using the room to deliver photons.

The pic below is for a 4 x 8 room that was modeled by Cycloptics for Scrappy-doo and you can see that it required 6 lights to deliver about 630 µmol/m²s at 66 inches from the reflectors; obviously that number goes up as the plants get closer to the light. At 20 inches from the lights the predicted PPF is about 1,000.

Of course you can run the lights closer to the canopy, but the uniformity will be worse. That's why they mount the lights high and add the required number of luminaires to get to the target PPF: better uniformity.

With all of that said, I think Scrappy used 3 lights in a 5 x 10 and kept them at about 3 foot from the canopy and had great results. Just understand this is not how they recommend that you set up your room. Very expensive to do it like they say. Probably takes at least 3 or 4 Greenbeams to replace a DE Gavita. This is why people don't run them; they are super expensive when you run them as recommended.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61621&pictureid=1487714&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

I have data of Cycloptics modeled uniformity for this room at 20" of 1.27 Max/Min and 1.12 Avg/Min compared to 1.18 and 1.11 respectively at 66 inches. This is really good.