Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Jhhnn]

http://www.venturelighting.com/BallastHTMLDocuments/ElectronicBallasts.html

Not sure if this 315 venture ballast will work. I might have access to these through my job

I suspect that's a relabeled Philips ballast given the near identical dimensions from here, page 32-

http://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc...literature/downloads/elite_design_guidev7.pdfhttp://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc...literature/downloads/elite_design_guidev7.pdf

The slight difference from Philips specs is probably due to measuring in inches & converting to metric rather than doing an obvious copy/paste from Philips.

 

[geo923007]

I will get pricing on both.

 

[geo923007]

Can someone tell me the correct philips product codes for the CMH315T12.
I received a few quotes but prices been all across the board.
These are the ones i have pricing on.

Cdm315/u/o/4k- 427047
21831-3
23807-1
41521-6 received a crazy price

 

[frostqueen]

Update: it would appear that Cycloptics has lowered the price of the Greenbeams systems. Available from them for $529 (now including the bulb) plus their still-absurd shipping price of ~ $70. They also lowered the price of their Greenbeams reflector, and seem to have entirely new ballasts now. Anyone recognize those ballasts?

https://www.cycloptics.com/store

I would expect that these will be even cheaper from resellers now as well, and they are looking for more resellers, which should expand buying options.

I'm not trying to sell these, just letting people know that prices are finally shifting downwards a bit with CMH. I'm not convinced that the Phantom reflectors wouldn't do just fine for most people. Guess I'll find out: ordering some in a couple weeks.

 

[Avenger]

Anyone recognize those ballasts?

Looksto me like the chin-up hydro ballast based on the extruded case. Just green instead of white as seen on alibaba. This is of course a total guess.

 

[McKush]

Update: it would appear that Cycloptics has lowered the price of the Greenbeams systems. Available from them for $529 (now including the bulb) plus their still-absurd shipping price of ~ $70. They also lowered the price of their Greenbeams reflector, and seem to have entirely new ballasts now. Anyone recognize those ballasts?

https://www.cycloptics.com/store

I would expect that these will be even cheaper from resellers now as well, and they are looking for more resellers, which should expand buying options.

I'm not trying to sell these, just letting people know that prices are finally shifting downwards a bit with CMH. I'm not convinced that the Phantom reflectors wouldn't do just fine for most people. Guess I'll find out: ordering some in a couple weeks.

Growershouse delivered a commecial version greenbeams to me for total of $530

 

[frostqueen]

Growershouse delivered a commecial version greenbeams to me for total of $530

Yeah, I'm waiting for them to bring in these newer options. I bet they will have a good price. Any idea how often they have that 10% off sale on lighting? I noticed it is gone now. The Phantom reflector is back to $140 again.

The new cycloptics ballasts will hit the shelves late November from what I understand, and the bulb will now be included.

 

[Avinash.miles]

Update: it would appear that Cycloptics has lowered the price of the Greenbeams systems. Available from them for $529 (now including the bulb) plus their still-absurd shipping price of ~ $70. They also lowered the price of their Greenbeams reflector, and seem to have entirely new ballasts now. Anyone recognize those ballasts?

https://www.cycloptics.com/store

I would expect that these will be even cheaper from resellers now as well, and they are looking for more resellers, which should expand buying options.

I'm not trying to sell these, just letting people know that prices are finally shifting downwards a bit with CMH. I'm not convinced that the Phantom reflectors wouldn't do just fine for most people. Guess I'll find out: ordering some in a couple weeks.

i called "rocky mountain grow lites" recenty... my link from bolder lamp who shot off to service the grow community... sells the wellthink ballasts
he quoted me closer to 400 per unit including bulb ballast hood.

also endomaxx / summit lighting quoted me the "high times special" was 470 per setup and gave me the option of double or single jacketed bulbs.... when i asked to clarify that the single jacketed bulbs must be run in enclosed hoods, correct? they said that the single jacketed block less UV and they use them in OPEN hoods.
also told me they did experiments with spraying the single jacketed bulbs with water and submerging them in water, told me some videos were posted, sounds crazy i know....

so there is the low down on some prices i'm aware of since i'm in the market for some of these.... still may end up going with the 2 bulb "630w LEC" setup that's showing up in many grow stores now.
now that i look i like this from cycloptics:
https://www.cycloptics.com/node/68
its a "conversion kit" so you can use your existing mogul base hoods with the adapter and has 120 or 240 models.... only 329$ that seems like the kickass deal right there.... am i wrong?

 

[rives]

when i asked to clarify that the single jacketed bulbs must be run in enclosed hoods, correct? they said that the single jacketed block less UV and they use them in OPEN hoods.
also told me they did experiments with spraying the single jacketed bulbs with water and submerging them in water, told me some videos were posted, sounds crazy i know....

They are either lying or idiots. When a small-time vendor gives out information that contradicts the manufacturer and design engineers, it's pretty obvious whose advice you should follow. The problem is the internal pressures, not the jacket getting wet - the internal pressure in a CDM lamp can approach 3,000psi. On the other hand, I've seen a 100w incandescent lamp go off like a hand grenade when it was hit with water. The envelopes are obviously different materials, but these assholes are going to get someone hurt.

Yes, that is a conversion kit, but the price doesn't seem that great to me but would be good for people who don't DIY. Philips ballasts can be had for about $160, a socket is around $20, and the lamp for about $70-80. The ballast would need an enclosure and cords, so......

 

[Avinash.miles]

i agree 100%, i thought i knew to only run the unjacketed in enclosed hoods, he told me otherwise, i still don't plan on ever running the t9 (unjacketed, right?) in unenclosed hood. I would like to try a 315w double jacketed on vertical bare bulb style.

rives, do u think that the cycloptics kit is a decent deal for using old mogul base reflectors and fixtures? 329 includes bulb ballast and converter... i guess there is that 70$ shipping...
just noticed they are out of stock.... till mid nov.

 

[rives]

I was apparently editing to add the comment about the kit while you were typing. As mentioned up above somewhere, those adapters to go from a mogul>PGZ18 base are kind of questionable too. They might work well for centering the lamp up if you get lucky, but extra connections between the lamp and the power source aren't a great idea. I would think that Cycloptics would be offering a decent quality adapter, but many are pretty funky.

 

[McKush]

Yeah, I'm waiting for them to bring in these newer options. I bet they will have a good price. Any idea how often they have that 10% off sale on lighting? I noticed it is gone now. The Phantom reflector is back to $140 again.

The new cycloptics ballasts will hit the shelves late November from what I understand, and the bulb will now be included.

I don't know about their discounts planned. I know they had the 10% but I've been dicking around for so long on this issue that it is not worth it to me to try to time the purchase. I have all the means and know how to build my own lamp but it is more costly for me to build one when I add up the amount of time I need to spend than to just buy a completed unit. I still need to run power, add a new relay contactor to fire it off 120v timer and hang it, that is enough work as it is for me.

I've been hemming and hawing at the commercial built 315 units and wish there was a better selection out there but the greenbeams should be good enough and as good as anything else imho. I'm even thinking about adding another 942 GB to my flower room epap to get to a better light value. Adding a 315 to a DE would be perfect for me I think. Just shy of 60w/sqft (to use that old measure) at max light levels and I'm of the opinion that I really don't need more than 60 for my needs.

I wasn't aware about there being new ballasts coming out, what are the parameters or changes? I have the 207-277v version which is called "commercial" but I'm not sure which ballast it is yet.

 

[frostqueen]

I don't know about their discounts planned. I know they had the 10% but I've been dicking around for so long on this issue that it is not worth it to me to try to time the purchase. I have all the means and know how to build my own lamp but it is more costly for me to build one when I add up the amount of time I need to spend than to just buy a completed unit. I still need to run power, add a new relay contactor to fire it off 120v timer and hang it, that is enough work as it is for me.

I agree. My time is more valuable. That said, I will be slowly phasing in 12-18 lights over the next year. Most here won't, so a bit of DIY is no issue. I definitely love the designs Rives is coming up with, and all of this info he has provided is priceless. :tip hat:

I have been hovering between either going with the Phantom reflectors w/ cycloptics ballasts or splurging for the entire greenbeams package. There's about $100 difference per fixture with the 10% off, but quite a bit more without. That Phantom http://www.horticulturesource.com/phantom-315w-cmh-reflector-p23460/ is a really nice vertical-bulb design IMO, like a square version of the Greenbeams. It even has an optional glass/ventilation package so the T9 would be doable, but I don't need that.

I've been hemming and hawing at the commercial built 315 units and wish there was a better selection out there but the greenbeams should be good enough and as good as anything else imho. I'm even thinking about adding another 942 GB to my flower room epap to get to a better light value. Adding a 315 to a DE would be perfect for me I think. Just shy of 60w/sqft (to use that old measure) at max light levels and I'm of the opinion that I really don't need more than 60 for my needs.

I would say the Greenbeams is widely considered the best reflector available. Other commercial options are still pretty limited. I don't care much for the 'mirrored' design of the Sun System LEC 315 and 630 reflectors. That Phantom 315 reflector is brand new and I think people will gravitate towards it en masse once they take a serious look at what is there and see the price.

In fact, I bet it is the primary reason we just saw the green beams price drop. It will give them some stiff competition. I'll know more and post back with photos when I get two of them in a couple weeks.

The whole 'watts per sq foot' rule gets heavily skewed when you switch to CMH. From what I understand, 315 watts of CMH will do great for a 30"x30" area, or 36"x"36" if placed side by side for full-room coverage.

I wasn't aware about there being new ballasts coming out, what are the parameters or changes? I have the 207-277v version which is called "commercial" but I'm not sure which ballast it is yet.

Plug and play 315w ballast options are very limited so far. The newer cycloptics ballasts are being phased in this month. They have switched to them being either 120 or 220v rather than both, which is a bit of a letdown. But yeah: $190 for a plug and play ballast in a nice metal case vs. wiring up a $160 naked ballast and buying a power cord makes sense to me. That being said: the ballasts Rives recommends are tried and true. These should be, but who knows. They do have a 3 year warrantee. I personally don't want my ballast attached to the hood. I'd rather have the ballasts grouped together on a separate wall for easy access if needed.

 

[geo923007]

Rives can you message me would like to talk to you about the cdm lamps

 

[Jhhnn]

60w/sq ft of CDM would be very intense lighting. Given the results I'm getting so far, 40w/sq ft of CDM is in the same ballpark as 60w/sq ft of conventional HID.

I honestly couldn't be more pleased w/ what I'm getting at 8 weeks of flower.

 

[rives]

Rives can you message me would like to talk to you about the cdm lamps

It doesn't look like I can pm you. It used to be that you could get ONE pm before you had 50 posts - perhaps you have one, or things may have changed. I can message you on your visitor page, but it won't let me know when you reply back.

If you haven't already, check out the first page of the thread - I went into a fair bit of detail on available gear. Post #3 lists lamp options and some part numbers as well as links. Note that the Agro lamp is frequently misspelled as "Argo" and is the same lamp as the newer named "Green Power", p/n 41521-6 or 415216. This lamp is available for around $75, but there are some places (including electrical wholesalers) that have obscene prices for them.

 

[geo923007]

Its something else i want to talk to you about. I work for a large lighting wholesaler and have some pricing on these lamps. Shoot me an email [email protected]. i promise it will be worth your while. Just need your advice on something im thinking of doing. Thanks...

 

[el6magiko]

hello guys i have a few questions for you,rives and jhhnn especially,no hard feelings is there a difference between these two sockets or it doesent matter which one i take ill be running t12 942?

2) i think i don't need transformer if my ballast is eu one 220-240v right?
3) is there something in wiring setup that is different from hps or mh setup that i have to be aware of?
thanks for reply you are great source of wisdom all of yyou,best wishes to all.

 

[el6magiko]

https://www.watt24.com/Komponenten/.../BJB-Lampenfassung-PGZ18-fuer-HID-Lampen.html

http://www.cordsncables.co.uk/acata...r_HQI__MBI_metal_halide_and_sodium_lamps.html

 

[McKush]

60w/sq ft of CDM would be very intense lighting. Given the results I'm getting so far, 40w/sq ft of CDM is in the same ballpark as 60w/sq ft of conventional HID.

I honestly couldn't be more pleased w/ what I'm getting at 8 weeks of flower.

Hiya Jhhnn, I agree about 60w/sqft of CDM likely being too high. I'm using a 1000w DE and then I factored the 315 CDM up abit to adjust for its apparent brightness. So I would really have ~1315w total (not on DE overdrive) for a bit less than 28sqft which is 47w/sqft. But if you say 315 is equivalent to 600 then the w/sqft changes closer to 60w/sqft.

So either way a DE and CDM would give a proper level of light me thinks.