Millerstreeandl
New member
Cool thread. I have been thinks by about getting a few of these to try.
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Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)
- Thread starter rives
- Start date
Lot of chat here - lot of information to take in. Thinking of a micro system...
Many moons ago I used to flower in a 2 x 2 box with a 400w HPS - and loved the bud it put out.
I think now a better option would be to do a 2.5 x 2.5 with a 315 CMH and I've been looking at the Greenbeams pretty heavily.
The biggest limiting factor for this is really noise pollution from having to run large fans to cool an HPS system...
I guess my real question revolves around cooling necessity and if you guys think a higher CFM Panasonic Whisper quiet would be enough to cool such a cab...OR should I still be looking at a 4" blower?? (planning on using HEPA filtered passive intakes and exhausting through a carbon filter)
I know - I hate these generic type questions too - but really I'm just thinking out loud and looking for a bit of steering my thoughts in the right direction.
Thanks!
dank.Frank
Many moons ago I used to flower in a 2 x 2 box with a 400w HPS - and loved the bud it put out.
I think now a better option would be to do a 2.5 x 2.5 with a 315 CMH and I've been looking at the Greenbeams pretty heavily.
The biggest limiting factor for this is really noise pollution from having to run large fans to cool an HPS system...
I guess my real question revolves around cooling necessity and if you guys think a higher CFM Panasonic Whisper quiet would be enough to cool such a cab...OR should I still be looking at a 4" blower?? (planning on using HEPA filtered passive intakes and exhausting through a carbon filter)
I know - I hate these generic type questions too - but really I'm just thinking out loud and looking for a bit of steering my thoughts in the right direction.
Thanks!
dank.Frank
hello guys i have a few questions for you,rives and jhhnn especially,no hard feelingsis there a difference between these two sockets or it doesent matter which one i take ill be running t12 942?View Image
View Image
2) i think i don't need transformer if my ballast is eu one 220-240v right?
3) is there something in wiring setup that is different from hps or mh setup that i have to be aware of?
thanks for reply you are great source of wisdom all of yyou,best wishes to all.
1) Any of the PGZ18 sockets will work. The cordsncables link also has PGZ12 sockets listed, and they will not.
2) No, you don't need a transformer for EU power if you are using the Philips ballast. It is rated for use on anything from 200-277v. Other ballasts may vary.
3) The wiring is virtually identical - power in to the ballast, power out to the socket, and grounding connecting it all together.
I run one system in a 30" x 30" tent. I don't think that the GreenBeams will work in this application for a couple of reasons - 1st, there isn't adequate headroom in my tent to allow enough distance between an open fixture and the top of the plants. 2nd, I don't think that I could adequately cool an open fixture without going to a much higher air exchange rate.
I run a Whisper fan in another installation, but it is a box-style bathroom ventilator, not an inline. It would not work well cooling the above, I don't think. Unless Panasonic has made some changes in the last few years, the Whispers are comparatively low volume and don't deal well with static pressure, so they are unlikely to work well with a HEPA inlet and carbon filters. The 315's are pretty easy to cool - the 30" tent uses a 4" 110cfm inline, set up to draw through a carbon filter>through the enclosed fixture>out of the room.
You're fighting two things- heat and restriction to airflow. More of either means you need more fan & more noise to deal with it.
I'd avoid the hepa filter & use something like this-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con..._j9-cgCFYQ8aQod1OUCQQ&Q=&m=Y&is=REG&A=details
I have one as part of my system. They're somewhat restrictive but nothing like a hepa filter. On the other end, you want a fairly large carbon filter for lower restriction as well.
The panasonic fans are well regarded, I think. I have no experience with them or with small cabs. They're a different realm than the 4x4 spaces I've worked in since I came back to growing.
Maybe you could use a Hyper Fan - Stealth 6 in 315 CFM for cooling the space. Depending on the ambient air temperature in the room where the tent is you could run it at 50% for even quiter operation and it should easily cool one 315 watt light. According to the data in the ventilation 101 thread you would need between 126 to 253 CFM to cool a 400 watt system to between 5 to 10 degrees of ambient. It seems like the Panasonic is slightly too small and has issues with high static pressure, but if you can cool the room the tent or box is in then it might work.
The plan was to cool the temperatures in the room to about 10 degrees below desired ambient for cabinet temps. So, keeping ambient room temps about 68 is not a big deal at all.
I've used darkroom louvers and often recommend them - but...I still use a HEPA filter on my intakes. Call in over kill anonymous...I know. But I prefer it that way. Given those criteria, I assumed I was looking at a 4" inline.
I'm used to growing under 1k's and 18"-24" from bulb is not uncommon or a big deal. So even if growing with a Cyclotpics in a small cabinet type environment, as long as I have about 4.5ft from top of soil to edge of hood I think I'll be okay.
I'll be using a 2' x 2' x 11.5"(d) organic soil bed. I'll fill it with 25 gallons soil and either run 4 plants SCROG, 9 plants topped and flipped at 12-14", or 16 cuts flipped right at rooting for a true SOG...
It'll really just depend on plant performance and how good the light works and penetrates the canopy...
^^^THAT I found to be the biggest limiting factor to quality nugs in low lighting - their inability to penetrate foliage and get deeper into the canopy to really chunk up the flowers.
On average - if you have a relatively full canopy - how deep does 315 CMH penetrate? I remember that the 400w in a 2' x 2' really suffered past about 15" max.
dank.Frank
I've used darkroom louvers and often recommend them - but...I still use a HEPA filter on my intakes. Call in over kill anonymous...I know. But I prefer it that way. Given those criteria, I assumed I was looking at a 4" inline.
I'm used to growing under 1k's and 18"-24" from bulb is not uncommon or a big deal. So even if growing with a Cyclotpics in a small cabinet type environment, as long as I have about 4.5ft from top of soil to edge of hood I think I'll be okay.
I'll be using a 2' x 2' x 11.5"(d) organic soil bed. I'll fill it with 25 gallons soil and either run 4 plants SCROG, 9 plants topped and flipped at 12-14", or 16 cuts flipped right at rooting for a true SOG...
It'll really just depend on plant performance and how good the light works and penetrates the canopy...
^^^THAT I found to be the biggest limiting factor to quality nugs in low lighting - their inability to penetrate foliage and get deeper into the canopy to really chunk up the flowers.
On average - if you have a relatively full canopy - how deep does 315 CMH penetrate? I remember that the 400w in a 2' x 2' really suffered past about 15" max.
dank.Frank
If you want to keep the noise down then stepping up to a 6" fan & speed control will help. Using a 315 in a 30" square enclosure really is intense lighting, 50w/ sq ft. I'm using slightly less than 40 w/ excellent results. Seems about the same as 60w/ sq ft of conventional HID.
My technique is both simple & lazy, exploiting the enclosure as part of the reflector. I just let ''em grow, flower at 12"-15", trim away some of the lowest branches. Well behaved hybrids finish at 3'-4'. When I crowd more than 6 plants into my 44"x54" enclosure the light doesn't get to the lower reaches very well. With 6 plants, the bounce off the walls gets way down into the plants, giving good bud formation. That's the basic principle behind the cycloptics reflector.
Detail of Eldorado at 8 weeks-
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=52773&pictureid=1521761
Nice buds right down to the main stem. Reference that against the pics in my albums.
I'd try 2 plants in a space that small to exploit the 3 dimensionally even lighting that a cycloptics reflector should provide.
frostqueen
Active member
What brand are the ballasts? As long as they are reliable you should be good to go. There are a lot of Chinese ballasts in that price range but I'm not ready to take that gamble. There aren't really too many plug and play ballast options out there.
frostqueen
Active member
And FWIW, Cycloptics have raised their prices back up again. A basic plug and play ballast was $190, but is now $240 (plus $20 for shipping). $240 for an item that probably costs them $80 max out of China.
In light of that I'll definitely go with Rive's ballast options instead and just wire up my own. It takes minutes. Personally I'm not paying ~$100 more per ballast just for a damned case and a power cord. YMMV.
But I guess that was the entire point of this thread to begin with, eh?
In light of that I'll definitely go with Rive's ballast options instead and just wire up my own. It takes minutes. Personally I'm not paying ~$100 more per ballast just for a damned case and a power cord. YMMV.
But I guess that was the entire point of this thread to begin with, eh?
eBay sometimes has pretty good prices on the Philips ballasts, but you really have to know what you are looking at. This is the best price that I've seen for new, at $162.50 - http://www.ballastdiscount.com/metal-halide/iztmh210315rlfm.html
I bought a bunch of them over 6-8 months back before anyone started using this system, and I got them from $25 - $75 each. I think those days are long gone, though. I bought some fixtures that were pretty interesting - they were advertised as 630w autotransformer ballasts, which are pretty common, but not in 630w. The picture showed the housing split apart, and there were (2) 315 Philips electronic ballasts in each housing. They were intended for parking lot lighting, with each ballast housing feeding fixtures on opposite sides of the light pole. All of the ballasts came out of Texas and there had apparently been some big lighting show that featured these, and then the parts all went to liquidators. I bought them from several different vendors, all of whom bought them on pallets at auction.
I bought a bunch of them over 6-8 months back before anyone started using this system, and I got them from $25 - $75 each. I think those days are long gone, though. I bought some fixtures that were pretty interesting - they were advertised as 630w autotransformer ballasts, which are pretty common, but not in 630w. The picture showed the housing split apart, and there were (2) 315 Philips electronic ballasts in each housing. They were intended for parking lot lighting, with each ballast housing feeding fixtures on opposite sides of the light pole. All of the ballasts came out of Texas and there had apparently been some big lighting show that featured these, and then the parts all went to liquidators. I bought them from several different vendors, all of whom bought them on pallets at auction.
frostqueen
Active member
Perfect! Thanks, Rives. I can definitely work with this.
Going with the Phantom reflector now, think. I was almost going to go with the Cycloptics system but I'll admit I resent the price gouging a bit. It's pretty clear that their intent is to get folks to just pay another $80 and go with their entire greenbeams package rather than a $190 cycloptics ballast and a $140 Phantom reflector. Since there are currently no other plug and play ballasts out there they get their cut either way. Somebody needs to fill that market void asap.
frostqueen
Active member
So these are welthink ballasts. Alibaba has these in 4 unit minimums for the same price. Wonder how they do?
I think you did alright. If Wellthink ballasts were junk, I think we'd know about it by now.
They're consumer grade electronics & will likely last several years at worst. Genuine Philips ballasts are industrial grade, designed to last a decade or more just like high grade old school core & coil ballasts used for conventional HID. When it's up on a pole in the parking lot or way overhead in an industrial work environment you want to mess with it as little as possible.
LargePrime
Member
rives;
Would you care to give us a thought on flip floping these? Like a relay recomendation? Or, a neat circuit for killing power to the ballast and flipping and repowering? For those not using some sort of digital controller...
Would you care to give us a thought on flip floping these? Like a relay recomendation? Or, a neat circuit for killing power to the ballast and flipping and repowering? For those not using some sort of digital controller...
LargePrime
Member
Did you get an answer?
Have you looked at the Philips lighting web site for numbers?
Unclecrash
Member
Damn someone found my stash of ballasts on the bay
on the bay
