Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[frostqueen]

After reading all about CMH, I have to say I'm baffled at two things: why more people don't use them, and why they are still so damned expensive.

I'm sure the second partially explains the first. But why would these be so much more expensive? I'm seeing like $50 in parts there max. Is there some technical aspect that makes them worth so much more than standard HPS or MH?

They've also been available for quite a while now, so you'd think more people would catch on to them. Instead, all of the hype and discussion is about double-ended bulbs and Gavitas.

Also, do you guys find your plants finish a week earlier? I've seen a couple references to that now.

 

[timmur]

After reading all about CMH, I have to say I'm baffled at two things: why more people don't use them, and why they are still so damned expensive.

I'm sure the second partially explains the first. But why would these be so much more expensive? I'm seeing like $50 in parts there max. Is there some technical aspect that makes them worth so much more than standard HPS or MH?

They've also been available for quite a while now, so you'd think more people would catch on to them. Instead, all of the hype and discussion is about double-ended bulbs and Gavitas.

Also, do you guys find your plants finish a week earlier? I've seen a couple references to that now.

DE technology is so popular because it has incredible price/performance. CMH is better IMO, but it costs 3-4x as much which is a serious hurdle for widespread adoption. Not sure what drives the cost, but Cycloptics is expensive as they probably have significant R&D costs associated with their reflector. Everything I've read on the forums indicates that plants finish sooner with them.

I think I remember reading that they have more far red than HPS so that might explain some of the early finishing. Tenthirty and Scrappy-doo could probably offer more insight on the finishing question.

I'd really love to see some sort of direct comparison between DE and CMH, but it would really have to be done right. You'd have to have equal PPFD at the canopy and DLI would need to be equivalent to make a valid comparison. Additionally, you'd want to match the uniformity of irradiance as well. Very unlikely to ever see this, but it would be ideal. Instead you'll see comparisons like a 315 watt CMH to a 600 watt HPS.

 

[mr eddy]

I have read this entire thread an several other's and am curious why Seattle hydroponics is never mentioned I spoke to a guy on the phone this afternoon who said he could sell me a 220 volt 315 watt Phillips bulb ballast an hood ready to go for 315 bucks that's much less than anything else I have seen online .I think it's worth mentioning that I saw his web sight 2 years ago when I first began reading on cmh lights But there is no mention of of him on any forum that I can find?

My question is has anyone ever dealt with Seattle hydroponics ?
That's 25$ than the Cyclops reflector and almost half the price of other units .
Great thread BTW Rives

 

[rives]

I have read this entire thread an several other's and am curious why Seattle hydroponics is never mentioned I spoke to a guy on the phone this afternoon who said he could sell me a 220 volt 315 watt Phillips bulb ballast an hood ready to go for 315 bucks that's much less than anything else I have seen online .I think it's worth mentioning that I saw his web sight 2 years ago when I first began reading on cmh lights But there is no mention of of him on any forum that I can find?

My question is has anyone ever dealt with Seattle hydroponics ?
That's 25$ than the Cyclops reflector and almost half the price of other units .
Great thread BTW Rives

I saw SH's stuff a while back. It is probably serviceable, and it looks like they use Philips components, but that is the crappiest looking fabrication job that I think I've ever seen from someone trying to sell their product. I admit that I'm a fabrication snob, but the light distribution is going to be a total crapshoot and there is no way that it will be repeatable from fixture to fixture. The "reflector" portion is obviously scavenged from a discarded hood and roughly bent into position, then screwed together. You can see where the original socket mounting hole has been plugged with a shiny piece of metal (hotspot!), and generally it looks like a piece of (s)crap that was run over and then brutalized into position.

Sorry, but that fucker gives me hives just looking at it!

 

[mr eddy]

That is a very legit point ) I do think it is worth mentioning that I called him 1 time and he picked up also responded to my email within a few hrs if I could get in touch with advanced lighting I would go that route. I like to tinker around myself and the hood could be replaced easy enough in my opinion .
In the email he told me for the same price I could get a Welthink 120volt / 220 volt ballast for the same price .
For someone like me looking to try my hand at growing it looks like it might be the way to go considering I need to buy everything and $ are always an issue at least the components look solid .

 

[mr eddy]

Rives would you recommend the Philips master color 3100k agro ?

 

[rives]

I've used both the T12 Agro and the T9 architectural versions of the 3100k, and they both worked great. The Agro probably has a slight edge, but it's damn close. The T9 needs to be used in an enclosed fixture, though.

If you like to tinker and watch eBay, you can sometimes come up with some pretty damn good deals. I put the following gear together for well under $300, including the lamp.

 

[McKush]

I saw SH's stuff a while back. It is probably serviceable, and it looks like they use Philips components, but that is the crappiest looking fabrication job that I think I've ever seen from someone trying to sell their product. I admit that I'm a fabrication snob, but the light distribution is going to be a total crapshoot and there is no way that it will be repeatable from fixture to fixture. The "reflector" portion is obviously scavenged from a discarded hood and roughly bent into position, then screwed together. You can see where the original socket mounting hole has been plugged with a shiny piece of metal (hotspot!), and generally it looks like a piece of (s)crap that was run over and then brutalized into position.

Sorry, but that fucker gives me hives just looking at it!



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sketchy as all get out.


I ended up getting the greenbeams 207-277v "commercial" fixture. I opened the ballast and took pics but was unable to see any markings on it . Going to use a 942 in it for yhe VR

 

[blueberrydrumz]

I saw SH's stuff a while back. It is probably serviceable, and it looks like they use Philips components, but that is the crappiest looking fabrication job that I think I've ever seen from someone trying to sell their product. I admit that I'm a fabrication snob, but the light distribution is going to be a total crapshoot and there is no way that it will be repeatable from fixture to fixture. The "reflector" portion is obviously scavenged from a discarded hood and roughly bent into position, then screwed together. You can see where the original socket mounting hole has been plugged with a shiny piece of metal (hotspot!), and generally it looks like a piece of (s)crap that was run over and then brutalized into position.

Sorry, but that fucker gives me hives just looking at it!



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wow.. cant believe people would buy something like this..
looks like a school project from a 5th grader or something... the hanging frame is not even screwed on straight, not to mention the sharp edges on the reflector where you are going to cut yourself whilst handling it..
jesus

 

[frostqueen]

I have read this entire thread an several other's and am curious why Seattle hydroponics is never mentioned I spoke to a guy on the phone this afternoon who said he could sell me a 220 volt 315 watt Phillips bulb ballast an hood ready to go for 315 bucks that's much less than anything else I have seen online .I think it's worth mentioning that I saw his web sight 2 years ago when I first began reading on cmh lights But there is no mention of of him on any forum that I can find?

My question is has anyone ever dealt with Seattle hydroponics ?
That's 25$ than the Cyclops reflector and almost half the price of other units .
Great thread BTW Rives

If you are going to work to cut costs this unit seems like a really poor choice. You can get this reflector http://www.horticulturesource.com/phantom-315w-cmh-reflector-p23460/ for under $110.

This Phantom may not equal the greenbeams, but it honestly looks pretty nice to me for the price. I definitely like the vertical bulb and overall depth, as well as the hammertone interior. Teamed up with a good ballast you then have a very nice plug and play 315w CMH for about $375.

I'm still leaning heavily towards the greenbeams, but I think I will first get one of these Phantoms going in my breeding chamber to see how it does. I have looked everywhere for reviews or tests of this reflector. Nothing.

 

[Jhhnn]

I saw SH's stuff a while back. It is probably serviceable, and it looks like they use Philips components, but that is the crappiest looking fabrication job that I think I've ever seen from someone trying to sell their product. I admit that I'm a fabrication snob, but the light distribution is going to be a total crapshoot and there is no way that it will be repeatable from fixture to fixture. The "reflector" portion is obviously scavenged from a discarded hood and roughly bent into position, then screwed together. You can see where the original socket mounting hole has been plugged with a shiny piece of metal (hotspot!), and generally it looks like a piece of (s)crap that was run over and then brutalized into position.

Sorry, but that fucker gives me hives just looking at it!

In my former line of work we'd call that a proof of concept prototype & a rough one at that. Certainly *not* ready for production.

 

[mr eddy]

Nice hood Rives I was looking for a good picture of it very clean

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm really starting to wonder if CDM lighting hastens maturation. This is my first round using CDM & my first try with Nirvana's Eldorado so I'm kinda flying blind here but I don't think they'll go the advertised 11-13 weeks at all. At 7-1/2 weeks I'm starting to see the early signs of finishing- purpling & yellowing of the uppermost fans, growing transformation to brown hairs & a change from sparkly clear trichomes to a more powdered sugar look of them turning white. I think maybe their goat wreck haze companions might go 12 weeks but I have no experience with them, either.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[rives]

No meaningful input from me. I hadn't used HPS in years (ummm....decades), and had most recently been using LEDs. CDM's have an edge over the LEDs that I was using, though.

 

[psyphish]

I'm really starting to wonder if CDM lighting hastens maturation. This is my first round using CDM & my first try with Nirvana's Eldorado so I'm kinda flying blind here but I don't think they'll go the advertised 11-13 weeks at all. At 7-1/2 weeks I'm starting to see the early signs of finishing- purpling & yellowing of the uppermost fans, growing transformation to brown hairs & a change from sparkly clear trichomes to a more powdered sugar look of them turning white. I think maybe their goat wreck haze companions might go 12 weeks but I have no experience with them, either.

Any thoughts on that?

I actually noticed something similar when I've ran my two 315w D-Papillons together for the first time. All the 55-65 day strains had nothing but brown pistils at 45 days (lots of amber also) and they didn't really change in appearance or weight after day 50.

Not sure if that's a good thing, but the CDMs do indeed seem to ripen plants faster.

[edit] I also noticed that my Ace Of Spades turned purple, but only on the Agro bulb's side, the 4200K daylight bulb didn't cause any change in color. Definitely getting another Agro bulb.

 

[geo923007]

Im new here. I dont want to break any rules or step on anyones toes. I work for a large lamp and ballast wholesaler.
If you guys can tell me the model numbers if the lamps you are interested in. Im sure i can get better pricing than the online places. I am aware of the CDM 315 930 AND 942. I have been reading the thread and i see there are a few versions of this lamp called AGRO.
let me know the model numbers and see if i can help.

 

[geo923007]

Also I do know GE makes a CMH150T6/930 g12 base. Which is alot less expensive and the ballast that run these run on 120v and are also less expensive. Its also available in a 70w version.

 

[blueberrydrumz]

lets see geo..
Ballast:
Phillips Low Freq Ballast 210-315W: IZTMH210315RLF

Bulbs:
Philips 315 Watt 4,200 Kelvin CDM315/U/O/4K ED37
Philips 860W 4K BT37 V EA AllStart CDM860/V/O/4K/EA
Philips 400W 4K HPS-Retro White Hori CDM4000S50/HOR/4K/ALTO
Philips 400W 4K HPS-Retro White Vert CDM400S51//V/O/4K/ALTO

ofcourse theres more that people have used here.. but these are interesting for me

 

[geo923007]

Ok thanks i will send out tommorow, to get pricing.

 

[geo923007]

http://www.venturelighting.com/BallastHTMLDocuments/ElectronicBallasts.html

Not sure if this 315 venture ballast will work. I might have access to these through my job