Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Jhhnn]

I got the 4200k bulbs in today. Fixture is installed. The 1st thing I noticed was in the DR 150 it was not lite up as much as the 600mh was before.. By looks the 600mh was brighter than the LEC 630. Could be the hood or the bulbs are 6.5K. I was using a generic adustawing reflector for the 600mh. This hood doesn't have as much of a wide disbursement as the old hood did. I think they still need more blue in the spectrum. Would be nice if they made a 6.5k bulb.

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Your old reflector threw light in all directions, bouncing a lot of it off the walls where it was diffused. Viewing the tent interior from normal angles, it was brighter to the eye. The new reflector sends more of the light straight down to the plants, where it's absorbed.

If you laid on your back in the tent & looked up at the light, the new reflector would very likely seem brighter.

 

[Hammerhead]

The New hood is much more enclosed than the adjustawing is. I'm sure that's why... I set the hood so the temp doesn't go past 85f. I don't want the plants getting any hotter than that.

 

[Hammerhead]

Hay these bulbs produce UVB ?

 

[Beta Test Team]

The MH bulb I was using is a 600w Ultrasun 6.5k.. I have a PAR meter. I never used it to take any readings from the MH bulb. I have used it for my DE setup. The reflector is [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]diffuse but it was very cheap. I think I paid 50$. It came with the mogul base. I wasn't really concerned about an expensive reflector for the veg room. I had a Gavita Triple Star hood I used for years. When I swapped it out for the cheap 50$ reflector I never noticed any difference.

... I have the LEC about 20" above the canopy I get 930 umol ms.
[/FONT]

Thanks for posting your irradiance measurement.

In terms of the CMH luminaire, I would suggest raising it a bit, maybe to 22-24", to get your PPF down to around 700-800. The reason is at around 930 PPF (assuming the uniformity is 100%, which isn't the case) and 18 hour photoperiod your DLI is about 60.3, which is too high. It's best to keep DLI at most 55, but better is between 45-50.

And by raising the fixture you're going to increase the uniformity of PPF at canopy, especially for the specular style reflector you're using.

It would be useful to measure irradiance at the edges of the canopy, as well in the center, for a rough idea about the uniformity of irradiance.

And for the quantum sensor setup you're using (I'm assuming Apogee, or Apogee black label as SunSystem), the accuracy under the DE HPS will be around -5-10% error margin, and for the MH around -5% error margin. Just something to keep in mind. As well as quantum sensors don't really measure by meter squared, they measure by whatever size the sensor is, which is normally around 1/2" to 1" or so. That's why it's helpful to measure a few spots within a meter squared and find the mean:

"Light meter questions. Beta team please?"
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=298086

 

[Beta Test Team]

Hay these bulbs produce UVB ?

Yes, according to the work by Nelson & Bugbee. About 0.03% of PAR range irradiance. So if your PPF is 930, you should have around 0.28 umol/s/m^2 UV-B, enough to have a positive effect if your photoperiod is 18 hours. However, note UV-B during flowering stage is likely more important than UV-B during veg stage, if your goal is to increase THC and trichome production. This thread may interest you:

"UV-B & UV-A: Lamp ouptut and goal umol"
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=302671

A member at this site has a SolarMeter UV-B sensor and is carrying out testing on Gavita DE 1000, ePapillion DE 1000, and Double dPapillion (I think the Agro 930 lamp). He may post his findings, hopefully.

 

[Beta Test Team]

The New hood is much more enclosed than the adjustawing is. I'm sure that's why... I set the hood so the temp doesn't go past 85f. I don't want the plants getting any hotter than that.

Just to point out, if you're measuring the canopy (air) temperature, the leaf (plant) temperature will generally be a couple of degrees hotter than air temp.

 

[Hammerhead]

I just wanted to know if the bulbs produced UVB thanks.

I put the probe on the leaf. Its not just hanging in the air. Its as close to leaf temp as I can get for now. For any real accurate readings I would need to buy a K type TC for my fluke. I'm OK with this 30$ sunleaves +-2f..
I have an Electrical engineering background with a Degree. I use to work for Intel for 15 years. I also did some studies at ITT. I'm familiar with DOE'S and failure analysis. Testing stuff is 2nd nature to me. I do it the same way I did at Intel..

 

[Scrappy-doo]

For anyone wanting some data on how these yield, I harvested about 1/3 of my room so far (3x cycloptics in a 5x10) and I already have 17 zips. From the looks of things I have another 2# in there, so we're looking at around 3# total with less than 1k, and this was my first run with them in a room not even close to dialed in. Pretty much zero training, and I was only there one day a week. Very pleased with these lights.

 

[Beta Test Team]

For anyone wanting some data on how these yield, I harvested about 1/3 of my room so far (3x cycloptics in a 5x10) and I already have 17 zips. From the looks of things I have another 2# in there, so we're looking at around 3# total with less than 1k, and this was my first run with them in a room not even close to dialed in. Pretty much zero training, and I was only there one day a week. Very pleased with these lights.

Great to hear, glad you're happy and getting good yields.

I'll be setting up 6 Greenbeams in a 6'x12 area in the next two weeks. Looking forward to posting pics and yield numbers.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Thanks BTT looking forward to seeing what you can do with them.

 

[Hammerhead]

You guys like the round hood? I just can't get passed they way it looks to buy 1. Does the green beams offer a 2 light fixture?.. Does anyone know if a 400w Ballast will fire these bulbs? if not what is in the ballast that is different than standard HID ballast.

 

[Jhhnn]

315's operate at 110 hz 100v. Standard industrial 400w metal halides operate at 60 hz 135v. Growers' electronic ballasts operate at much higher frequency making them unsuitable for all CMH lamps.

Philips 330w CMH is built for standard 400w MH ballasts & is a viable choice for scroungers & bargain hunting DIY'ers. Used 400w MH luminaires can sometimes be had for a song, parts are cheap & lamp deals can be had on ebay. I wouldn't expect them to be nearly as good as 315's. I haven't put them in operation, but my 315's obviously put out a lot more light than my 330w system used occaisonally for veg.

 

[Hammerhead]

Thanks for the info. I like to tinker with all the old electric equipment.. It's always good to ask before I start ruing stuff lol.. There's alot of us tinkerers on here.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

The round hoods were definitely unusual at first but once I saw the coverage I get with them I became a fan instantly. Imo they are a step up from regular hoods. Plus they are very light and only a single thin rope is needed to hang them.

 

[HUGE]

0.0 UV output on the 942 bulb at farther than 2 inches. . They read 2-3 microwattcs per cm at 1" from the bulb just like a T5

 

[Hammerhead]

UV B 0.03 mW/cm2 is whats on the spec sheet. IMO I wont see any effect from this.

http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...m-t-elite-med-wattage/928601167302_NA/product

http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...m-t-elite-med-wattage/928601167102_NA/product


I had 1 of the bulbs in wrong. it would not fire. I thought the base was keyed so you couldn't do that. I was wrong. I will find a way to make sure the proper orientation is marked before I plug in.

 

[rives]

UV B 0.03 mW/cm2 is whats on the spec sheet. IMO I wont see any effect from this.

http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...m-t-elite-med-wattage/928601167302_NA/product

http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...m-t-elite-med-wattage/928601167102_NA/product


I had 1 of the bulbs in wrong. it would not fire. I thought the base was keyed so you couldn't do that. I was wrong. I will find a way to make sure the proper orientation is marked before I plug in.

Something is really amiss here.

There should be a marked difference in the size of the two holes for the lamp as well as a flat spot on the smaller hole adjacent to the socket centerline. There is no way on earth to reverse them if the socket is properly built - I'd be getting in contact with the manufacturer.

 

[Hammerhead]

The bulb has 2 different post's thats very obvious but the fixture doesn't prevent the bulb from being installed wrong as I found out. I could see the bulb trying to fire it wouldn't. I took it out put it back in the other way it fired right up. The lamp holder does have different size holes but you can still plug in the bulb either way. Unless I just got unlucky and it went in when it shouldn't have. Next time I have it off I will have a better look see.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

That's odd. It shouldn't even be able to go in the wrong way. The size of the holes and fittings for the socket and bulb is pretty exact in mine. If I try to put it in the opposite way it doesn't fit. Unless your socket is so tight it can hold the bulb in without having to lock it in. In mine the bulb would fall out.

 

[rives]

Pretty sloppy fit on the socket holes, apparently.

Mine won't even begin to drop until you get the clocking just right. I can't get my calipers in there far enough to get a measurement, but the holes in the socket must only be .010 or .015 larger than the discs on the lamp electrodes - it's a snug fit.

The picture is of the Mitronix sockets that I mentioned at the start of the thread.