Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Jhhnn]

AC needs to be wired with the correct polarity. If you reverse these wires the device you plug in to the receptacle may "work" but it is unsafe and risks a short circuit, shock, or fire. Some devices may become damaged if left on a reversed polarity. The presence of live voltage at the "wrong end" of a circuit or circuit board may cause some devices on the board to remain energized even when the device has been "switched off". A result can be overheating or electrical shock hazards. You can reverse LINE and LOAD connections on daisy-chained devices and the circuit will appear to work properly. However the circuit may not be safe or fully protected. You can purchase Receptacle Testers to make sure none of your receptacles are wired wrong. This is more common than many realize. I have found many with reversed polarity in previous homes. This is something I check anytime I purchase or rent new homes. I'm pretty sure either of these will work..Adding a Bridge Rectifier to a DC circuit will prevent a reverse polarity issues. Will not matter if you swap the positive/Negative leads you will always get positive voltage when a Bridge Rectifier is used.
http://www.amazon.com/Sperry-Instruments-GFI6302-Outlet-Tester/dp/B000RUL2UU/ref=pd_bxgy_60_text_z

http://www.amazon.com/GE-3-Wire-Rec...sim_469_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=0SAWVZ4W7G4QRNBD67TM

That's all true, in general. I never said otherwise. There are circuits where polarity doesn't matter other than phasing between multiple outputs, like a stereo amplifier which uses push-pull circuitry. It doesn't matter wrt 240v AC circuits, either, because both leads are hot, just 180 degrees out of phase. Electricians follow the red to red/black to black wiring convention end to end in a 240v circuit but it's really not necessary from a functional POV.

I'll set it up again tomorrow morning & take some measurements, but I figure the voltages at the lamp leads will resemble those of a 240v AC circuit.

 

[Hammerhead]

My bad I misunderstood your post then. I didn't want someone to think its OK to wire it like that. I bought the 120v version.

 

[GDSBurns]

Could you guys give me your opinion on the quality of this cmh.



http://htgsupply.com/Product-HTGSupply-400-Watt-Ceramic-Metal-Halide-Grow-Light

 

[Scrappy-doo]

HTG is not known for having quality equipment. I'm sure it will work just fine. If you're able to spend a little more then you're better off, but if not it will certainly do the job. I've used plenty of their equipment in the past.

 

[rives]

Could you guys give me your opinion on the quality of this cmh.

http://htgsupply.com/Product-HTGSupply-400-Watt-Ceramic-Metal-Halide-Grow-Light

I just wanted to make sure that you knew that this is NOT the lamp tech that we are discussing in this thread, and the ballast will not run a 315. You are probably aware of that since you referred to it as a CMH, but just in case......

 

[GDSBurns]

HTG is not known for having quality equipment. I'm sure it will work just fine. If you're able to spend a little more then you're better off, but if not it will certainly do the job. I've used plenty of their equipment in the past.

Yeah figured with that price it would be too good to be true. Was just looking for a complete plug and play system

 

[GDSBurns]

I just wanted to make sure that you knew that this is NOT the lamp tech that we are discussing in this thread, and the ballast will not run a 315. You are probably aware of that since you referred to it as a CMH, but just in case......

Actually I thought i could run the 315 bulb in that ballast since it was called a cmh. So thanks cause my intention was to buy that setup then grab a Phillips 315 bulb for it... would anyone be able to link me to a complete 315 system?

 

[rives]

Here are some for you to look at. There are a couple of more commercial offerings from Europe, but I don't know about their availability on this side of the pond. Read the first couple of pages of the thread to get an understanding of the differences between these lamps and standard CMH, as well as what is available.

http://growershouse.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?cat=4&q=315

and fixtures with (2) 315 lamps -

http://growershouse.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?c2c_brand=7997&q=630+

http://growershouse.com/dimlux-expert-series-630w-dual-full-spectrum

 

[Browneyes1888]

Here are some for you to look at. There are a couple of more commercial offerings from Europe, but I don't know about their availability on this side of the pond. Read the first couple of pages of the thread to get an understanding of the differences between these lamps and standard CMH, as well as what is available.

http://growershouse.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?cat=4&q=315

and fixtures with (2) 315 lamps -

http://growershouse.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?c2c_brand=7997&q=630+

http://growershouse.com/dimlux-expert-series-630w-dual-full-spectrum

rives hiya mate can i ask ure opinion on this kit?
im from uk so its on my door step
http://www.hg-hydroponics.co.uk/maxi-bright-daylight-315w-cdm-twin-kit---630w-7926-p.asp
thats for 2x 315cdms
and choice of argo daylight bulb or elite bulb?

 

[FuturePharma]

Using HID vertical AC round/parabolic hoods after changing to a 315 socket?

Using HID vertical AC round/parabolic hoods after changing to a 315 socket?

First of all I wanted to thank everybody here for the almost half a year of really important and informative posts about the ceramic Metal Halide 315's. This has been extremely valuable to me and in fact I am about ready to order either six or eight of them for a 5 x 10' grow tent. This tent is for a first growing experience in a 16 x 22' semi sealed room with another 5 x 10 vegging room.. Both are 6 1/2 feet high. I would love to try doing it without air-conditioning, as our nights are getting cooler pretty rapidly and I'm using outside filtered air. There is humidity from the winter air and even cooler temperatures that I'm hoping will offset the dehumidifiers generated heat.

My question is: what about using HID vertical air cooled enclosures after changing out the socket? Even though not designed for 315's bulbs, would the losses be worth it? The glass could be removed at times as needed?

Thanks for pointing out here that Phillips doesn't have any recommended minimum temperature for these bulbs, but I haven't seen mention on this thread about any changes in the bulb spectrum or other losses using air cooling through glass or when dimming either for that matter? Would love to hear people's thoughts about that, as I have been told by a person involved with these lights from their introduction that air cooling does NOT effect the bulbs performance, as well as have been told that it does (and that is why there is no AC hood available).

Also, as I would like to experiment without air-conditioning, what about trying it first with six lights instead of eight? And this would give a 3.3 foot spacing however. But almost 700 less watts. Would it be a good move to try some of the sun system lights and some other DIY?

If an AC reflector modification is suggested as a good thing to try, I seem to have found only one possible hood to modify, so other suggestions are welcome. I would prefer to consider hoods related to the shape of the Cycloptics luninaire. As I am using a 6.5" tall tent, I have ruled out monsters like the 8 inch AC Vertical Hydrofarm and the (discontinued) Luxor.

A possible candidate is the OG 8" vertical grow lite for HID. It is Ac , is somewhat parabolic (from not so great photos), has been out a few years and has a rave review by Growershouse: http://growershouse.com/blog/8-og-vertical-reflector-vs-8-raptor-reflector-by-hydrofarm/. They concluded it made a 400w HID perform like a 1000w over a 3.5' footprint (larger than Sun Systems lec maybe). Users commented on their article, "The listed dimensions do not take into account the added height of about 6 inches once you mount the mogul outlet which the bulb screws into..... AWESOME Light............... Just not well suited for normal height tent growing is my only complaint.... It is very noisy because of all the pieces of aluminum that vibrate". No evtra cost for that feature!

Hope this is worth wile. I am frustrated in this Quest, but at least found some interesting info about some new non AC units:

When asking Ken about similar hood shapes that Sun Systems offers, he says that they have a very new vertical model like the old AC Luxor and like the Cyclops called the sun system LEC 315 remote fixture. But it does not seem AC to me (Part number 906251). When I said however that it looks triangular and not semi parabolic, he said that's just the outside shell. The light needs to be 18 inches above the canopy for the light and it needed no clearance above the light.

Furthermore, he said they are just producing something like the Luxor without the steel shell, very light aluminum, non-air cooled called the Lumen Max. All aluminum 98% reflection blah and probably not on their website yet, but is confusing because they have/had a Lumen max 2 and 3 that I found after a search. Gavita is against their competitor Dimlux from being carried by a huge distributor. Found one European outlet that would sell and ship 6 Dimlux to the west coast of the US for 2700 euros!

Both of these are using the one photon bounce idea as well as taking into consideration the reflections off the walls.

Thanks again everyone for your advocacy of the 315's!

 

[Avinash.miles]

I hope so too. It was not cheap. I have had plants with hollow stems. They where excellent quality. I have never noticed anything bad from hollow stems..

nothing particularly WRONG with hollow stems ( i guess they are slightly less stable for holding up big nugs...) but i do notice that accelurated growth often is accompanied with hollow stems, but NOT under the CHM ime.

also i've read that hollow stems and low boron could be related (in organic soil).

 

[Hammerhead]

Never had any issues with it. Some the best quality has come from hollow stemmed plants. I don't pay any attention to it.

Do you guys set the canopy distance depending on canopy temp?.. Anything closer than 20" is much to hot for my liking. I cant lower it anymore..

 

[Avenger]

pith autolysis

 

[rives]

rives hiya mate can i ask ure opinion on this kit?
im from uk so its on my door step
http://www.hg-hydroponics.co.uk/maxi-bright-daylight-315w-cdm-twin-kit---630w-7926-p.asp
thats for 2x 315cdms
and choice of argo daylight bulb or elite bulb?

I don't see that they specify which ballast they are using. There is a substantial difference in the way that the light performs and the longevity of the lamp between the cheaper ballasts and the Philips or GEL versions.

The Agro has a bit more red in it and is typically considered a flowering lamp. The 4200k version is normally considered a veg lamp, but several people are swearing by it for use all the way through. My experience is limited to the 3100k version (Agro and standard T9), and I think that you will be happy with either one.

 

[Hammerhead]

If you are concerned about it you should do what ever you need to to fix it. I'm not seeing any problems from the plants that had hollow stems. There are alot of threads about this. I'm sure some of the plants with hollow stems can have healthy issues. IMO hollow stems dont mean you have a problem... If its not causing me any issues I'm not gonna mess with it. All my girls are in perfect health that's all I care about..

Back on topic..

I just found these. I did not know they where making them. Is anyone using them?? It even has dimming witch SS does not.


http://www.epapillon.com/index.php/fixtures/double-d-papillon

 

[rives]

My question is: what about using HID vertical air cooled enclosures after changing out the socket? Even though not designed for 315's bulbs, would the losses be worth it? The glass could be removed at times as needed?

Thanks for pointing out here that Phillips doesn't have any recommended minimum temperature for these bulbs, but I haven't seen mention on this thread about any changes in the bulb spectrum or other losses using air cooling through glass or when dimming either for that matter?

Any of the commonly available reflectors should work with 315's (within reason - gigantic para's designed for 1kw lamps are probably an exception) after swapping out the socket. The socket may need a spacer under it to center the lamp properly within the reflector and this could require some experimentation to get the desired footprint (think about the footprint from MagLights). Only remove the glass if you are using the T12, double-jacketed lamps.

As far as I know, the only lamps that have difficulty with air cooling are the DE's - they use a different filler gas that is sensitive to operating temperature. The Philips ballast literature warns of a potential spectrum shift when running dimmed.

After several decades of doing industrial lighting, I think that vertical lamp reflectors give you the best potential for evenly distributed lighting over large areas if you have the headroom to make them work.

 

[Browneyes1888]

I don't see that they specify which ballast they are using. There is a substantial difference in the way that the light performs and the longevity of the lamp between the cheaper ballasts and the Philips or GEL versions.

The Agro has a bit more red in it and is typically considered a flowering lamp. The 4200k version is normally considered a veg lamp, but several people are swearing by it for use all the way through. My experience is limited to the 3100k version (Agro and standard T9), and I think that you will be happy with either one.

aaah gtocha mate and thanks for the responce
im replacing 4 x 600w hps with 4x 315w cdms which is why im looking at the cheraper maxi brights rather than the dimlux
i can get 4 x maxi bright for £1200 but the dimlux would cost £2k
thanks for the advice mate and ill maybe drop maxibright a mail to see if they will give any clues on the ballast

 

[Jhhnn]

The issue with vertical parabolic reflectors is getting the light emitter at the focal point of the parabola. I figure that commercial units are designed for the geometry of 1000w HPS lamps & that there's a lot of slop because of the long emitter. They don't work nearly as well as the makers claim just for that reason. Emitter positioning isn't nearly as critical w/ horizontal trough type reflectors where the emitter mostly needs to be on the design axis & towards the center.

The Cycloptics reflectors are entirely different, designed to throw as wide & even a pattern as possible in a reflective enclosure.

 

[raspaul]

If you are concerned about it you should do what ever you need to to fix it. I'm not seeing any problems from the plants that had hollow stems. There are alot of threads about this. I'm sure some of the plants with hollow stems can have healthy issues. IMO hollow stems dont mean you have a problem... If its not causing me any issues I'm not gonna mess with it. All my girls are in perfect health that's all I care about..

Back on topic..

I just found these. I did not know they where making them. Is anyone using them?? It even has dimming witch SS does not.


http://www.epapillon.com/index.php/fixtures/double-d-papillon

I've just got one of these PF and got some seedlings under it at 50%, I'm gonna use it the whole grow and boost it for flower.
I'll let you know what I think when I'm further along

Raspaul

 

[Fishywater]

I've just got one of these PF and got some seedlings under it at 50%, I'm gonna use it the whole grow and boost it for flower.
I'll let you know what I think when I'm further along

Raspaul

Yea, let us know.
I want to try 50% for veg as well, then 100% for flowering.