Beta Test Team
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Wow, I cannot believe that's at Home Depot! Great find. That is the correct lamp, assuming the base is correct for your SunSystems (mogul vs. pgz).
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Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)
- Thread starter rives
- Start date
Ya its pgz.. Thanks. Looks like that's a sale price until 6/28... I picked up 2.
The $50 #218317 lamps are the ones that I have the most of. I bought a case of them before the Agro was even introduced, and they work fine. The Agro has a slight advantage (I think.....maybe). I haven't done a side by side with them, but I have done consecutive grows with everything as close to the same as I could make it, and I picked up a few grams. These lamps are the T9 single-envelope lamps, and as BTT mentioned, must be used in an enclosed fixture.
The Home Depot lamp is the Agro, and that is a good buy on it.
The two lamps from Amazon via Advedia appear to be the Agro (one with a common misspelling - Argo), and they are just hosing people.
For vegging, you might want the 4200k version, but it's arguable.
I got the 4200k bulbs , These are just spare bulbs in case something happens. its always good to have spare bulbs on hand. I might as well try the 3100k when its time to change the 4200k. Then I cant use the 50$ bulbs. My fixture is open no glass.
Beta Test Team
Member
Yea, the main difference between the 930 and Agro 930 is increased % red range for the Agro, which increases the PAR range umol/s per watt value a bit.
If I recall correctly, Philips made the Agro originally at the behest of Cyclotpics and/or Dr. Bugbee and/or Dr. Albright, in small batch only. But after they became popular and more companies were requesting them they started large batch production.
Beta Test Team
Member
If you have the 942 and the Agro 930 you may want to use one of each in your fixture, or, test the 942 for veg and flowering, and the Agro 930 for veg and flowering, separately in two grows.
I prefer the 942 for veg and flowering, but others prefer the 930. Either one will work very well.
The main difference between them is the 942 has a bit greater % blue range (and more UV-A and UV-B) and the Agro 930 has greater % red range, which is why the 942 has photosynthetic efficiency of about 1.7 umol/s per watt in PAR range, and the Agro 930 has photosynthetic effeminacy of about 1.91 umol/s per watt in PAR range.
I wont be using it for flowering for a very long time. My Gavita/Epap is there to stay..I Struggle every summer keeping the veg room cool. I can't add anything that would increase my power usage. I'm maxed out on my panel. I also cant cool that area its detached from the house. The roof is metal. I have to reduce the amount of heat as much as I can in other areas.
Beta Test Team
Member
Ah, I see. I thought you were using them for flowering, as well.
It would still be worth it, I think, to use the 942 for a while and the Agro 930 for a while, to see if you like one over the other, considering you already have both lamp types.
Damn global warning's only benefit is Philips CMH sales!
It would still be worth it, I think, to use the 942 for a while and the Agro 930 for a while, to see if you like one over the other, considering you already have both lamp types.
Damn global warning's only benefit is Philips CMH sales!
Hey, I recognize those pics. I do have an update and I have learned a lot during that grow. I was chasing water, nutes, and everything but the environment. One of the Critical Jacks I put in there is also starting to yellow but I think that one has a nute problem since this is my first go with Critical Jack.
I believe my main problem was light intensity and heat stress. I chopped that plant in the pics down last week. It was light and airy, but still got 9 oz. from it. Most is going to be converted to hash.
That was my first plant in that room I built as well as first flower run with the LEC-630 light from Sun System. That light is no joke. The dual bulb is almost too much in one fixture. I had hot spots all over and the plant just got too tall. Temps at the tips of the branches (12-15" below light) were 85-90F once summer temps started coming. At 24" below canopy temps were 75-80F. When I first started that one in flower it was still close to freezing every night outside so the day/night temps were swinging by 20-25F sometimes, not good and caused a lot of stretch. So now I am focusing on the environment and working on some DIY automation to damper the intake and slow down the exhaust fan at night to keep temps more stable.
I wish I had more headroom. The canopy needs to be at least 20-24 inches from the light so the branch tips aren't exposed to high temps. That only leaves me with about 3 feet for plants after accounting for the bucket height. So I need to grow outward, not upward.
The second plant I tossed in there is doing a lot better now that I have better air circulation and have them farther from the light. She didn't stretch as much, internode spacings are great, and she isn't getting stressed out. It looks like when all goes well, these bulbs might knock off almost a week of flowering. I've been growing this Master Kush clone from a friend for a couple years now and it always takes at least 9 weeks. This one is starting to fade and turn colors already at the start of week 7 (unless I didn't feed enough N) and might be done in two weeks making 8 weeks. Usually I get turning colors around the 8 week point.
I took a few pics this morning. I attached a room shot. You can see the couple of branches from a Critical Jack plant on the left is starved already at week 5 of flower. I fed her a couple times and she still won't recover. New growth isn't fading but she lost a lot of fan leaves. Oh well, I know to feed her more during early flower next run. I had a feeling that was going to happen and I was right. The Master Kush in the right rear started to fade a little so I fed her good a few days ago. Going to monitor progress. I didn't feed it as much since I'm trying various nute ratios on all plants until I find one that they like. The two Master Kush in the front I am feeding a bit more to and they seem happier. I may have found a winning formula. The Master Kush in the middle rear is going to be done in ~2 weeks it looks like. Possibly 1 week ahead of schedule. I hope it isn't getting pH or nute issues so it fattens up nice. The changing of colors this soon has me worried. It was lush green all through flower until recently. Anyone know what tip yellowing means? Not burning, but just yellowing. I noticed this on that Master Kush before the turning of colors. I know I don't over feed so I was wondering if that is a sign of under feeding or pH troubles.
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I am using two of these bulbs in my LEC 630: http://www.usa.ecat.lighting.philip...cdm-t-elite-med-wattage-agro/928601172201_na/
Looks to be overpriced on Amazon. The Home Depot link you have is the one I have at a good price. Rives has some links on bulbs also in this post: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6739169&postcount=3
Thanks for that. You an I might not agree about a lot of things, but I regard you as eminently sensible in technical terms. You know your stuff. I've been inspired to follow your lead w/ blumats, for example, and the results so far are better than I'd imagined.
I doubt I'll be disappointed when I get the 315's in operation, either. I've studied the proposition for 2 years & have come to the conclusion that they're probably head & shoulders above other HID lighting with the possible exception of the Philips DE systems for larger grows. Not a miracle, just much better in terms of grow power per watt which translates to easier heat dissipation & lower electric bills.
Starting from there & with all the other variables of growing, I figure that there's negligible difference among the different flavors of 315, at least for my purposes. I bought the cheap T9 930's from Amazon for my enclosed luminaire. I was lucky to find a good deal on used ballasts, as well.
Even at non-DIY prices, they make sense for serious long-view small growers looking to upgrade. Even in non-commercial applications, they'll pay for the price difference over time with lower electrical costs & longer lamp life. I think they're overkill for beginners who may not find growing to suit them.
Something I'd really like to see is a manufacturer exploiting the small lamp size to create smaller vented luminaires w/ 4" vents rather than 6". It wouldn't take much fan power at all to keep a lot of the reduced heat out of the growspace in a two stage cooling arrangement thus reducing the need for airflow through the space which extends carbon filter life. That saves money, too, with opportunities to reduce fan noise as well.
If you couldn't tell, I'm eager to finish this round so I can do the work to get dual 315's in operation. I'll post pics of the supersun 2 reflector when it's done.
Thanks Jhhnn.
You are correct about about 4" vents and low-volume fans. Although I am very much an advocate of 2-stage cooling, I've found it unnecessary with up to (2) 315's.
I use 4" vents on my hoods, and with the 30" tent (single hood), I found a 110 cfm fan to work well in a single-stage configuration. My 48" tent runs (2) 315's vented in parallel and a 140 cfm fan. I think that those fans are on the low end of the scale as far as volume goes. Both installations have the surface temperature of the hoods very close to room temperature, and my house doesn't have a/c. These lamps are remarkably easy to cool.
I am setting up my closet with 2-stage cooling for when it eventually takes the place of the larger tent, but it is also set up to run (3) 315's if I want.
Reflector Uniformity
Reflector Uniformity
I have mixed a 315w 942 & a 930 greenpower in one of these reflectors , in a DR120 tent.
I am concerned with uniformity and hot spots , I do not have a lux meter but have been considering hanging a white card 100cmx100cm and measuring the temps from under the card with a laser temp gun at 25 spots ,then raising and lowering it until I find the "sweet spot" for this reflector from the temp readings.
Beta or any other knowledgeable people, have any thoughts on this idea?
Reflector Uniformity
I have mixed a 315w 942 & a 930 greenpower in one of these reflectors , in a DR120 tent.
I am concerned with uniformity and hot spots , I do not have a lux meter but have been considering hanging a white card 100cmx100cm and measuring the temps from under the card with a laser temp gun at 25 spots ,then raising and lowering it until I find the "sweet spot" for this reflector from the temp readings.
Beta or any other knowledgeable people, have any thoughts on this idea?
I got the 4200k bulbs in today. Fixture is installed. The 1st thing I noticed was in the DR 150 it was not lite up as much as the 600mh was before.. By looks the 600mh was brighter than the LEC 630. Could be the hood or the bulbs are 6.5K. I was using a generic adustawing reflector for the 600mh. This hood doesn't have as much of a wide disbursement as the old hood did. I think they still need more blue in the spectrum. Would be nice if they made a 6.5k bulb.
Beta Test Team
Member
Interesting idea about measuring temperature. I have to think about it for a bit, but at first thought it should work to give an idea of reducing hot spots. That's really thinking outside the box, nice
The reason I wrote I have to think about it is how spectrum comes into play.
It's for sure better than not doing anything to qualify uniformity.
Beta Test Team
Member
The 942 have plenty of blue, at about 13-14% of total PAR range output, if I recall correctly. The Agro 930 (Greenpower) is around 11-12%, I believe. (Those figures aren't exact, but close without checking my notes.)
Using sight as a means to judge light intensity is not the way to go, because we perceive green range light as 'brighter' even though it may not be. For example, that MH lamp may have greater green range than the 942, so it looks brighter, even if the 942 setup has greater PAR range radiance and PPF.
I don't know the photosynthetic efficiency of your MH, but I'm going to assume (safely, I'm pretty sure) it's less than the 942 (at about 1.7 umol/s in PAR range per watt). What that means, is I very strongly doubt the MH lamp is brighter than the two 942 lamps.
The reason it looks brighter to the naked eye could be due to spectrum of the MH vs. 942 (the former having more green), and the reflector (e.g. was the MH reflector diffuse?).
The only way to know for sure is to use a quantum sensor (some people call this as "PAR meter"), or a lux meter and convert the lux to PPF.
The MH bulb I was using is a 600w Ultrasun 6.5k.. I have a PAR meter. I never used it to take any readings from the MH bulb. I have used it for my DE setup. The reflector is [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]diffuse but it was very cheap. I think I paid 50$. It came with the mogul base. I wasn't really concerned about an expensive reflector for the veg room. I had a Gavita Triple Star hood I used for years. When I swapped it out for the cheap 50$ reflector I never noticed any difference.
... I have the LEC about 20" above the canopy I get 930 umol ms.
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... I have the LEC about 20" above the canopy I get 930 umol ms.
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