passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

No sweat bro,

I was guesstimating about 25 hours a week with DF.

The bud pics could be just closeups of what you just harvested...some trich shots would be great...

Something else...do you cure your buds before "disposal"?

Thanks,
OO

good morning! 22-25 hours a week sounds about right with DF'ing also factoring in an increased average trim time to about 6 hours.

but that's two people. mrs. delta splits DF'ing and trimming with me and she does the clone maintenance after i take them. i do container prepping and transplant, nutes, ro water transfer, system cleaning and maintenance. she does general grow area maintenance, bulb and fixture cleaning.

we both are really tuned in to the plants. we are both inspecting for growing problems, pests, malfunctioning equipment, checking electrical connections, timer accuracy, and so on.

all in all, not a bad gig.



i'm working on the bud shots.



"disposal". what a diplomatic word. yes, i dry them to stem snapping dryness by leaving them on that cardboard box top you see for 4-5 days, depending on humidity. tossed daily.

then it's into the 2.5 gal rubbermaids you see with the top on for a while, off for a while on no particular schedule, tossing occasionally.

after a few days of this, depending how it feels, i start taking the top off daily for 10-15 minutes, tossing each time.

6 weeks of this and then "disposal".

tightly trimmed, first class, dry, cured, knockdown painkiller. smooth, tasteful, great aroma. burns to a fine white ash. great bag appeal. they will wait for it even when there's a lot of other shit around.

 

[SCROG McDuck]

Maybe some time, for my first try I'd probably just put them in the same room with no shielding.

How about a verticle cool tube with the 'top' reflector in place??
I think that woud do the job..
or is useing CT not concidered 'bare bulb'??

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

tightly trimmed, first class, dry, cured, knockdown painkiller. smooth, tasteful, great aroma. burns to a fine white ash. great bag appeal. they will wait for it even when there's a lot of other shit around.

I choose to believe 'doing it right' is the only way to do it.

I choose to stand by my word, regardless of personal consequences.

I don't care if doing the best that I am capable of ever 'works out'.

I don't care if I ever come out on top.

I do, however, take a bit of comfort in the idea that for someone, somewhere, it seems like living a life of character is not personally distructive.

Work beside your lady.
Diligence and concern.
Trim it tight.
Cure it right.

You sir, are on an auspicious path.

 

[delta9nxs]

“D9 uses retarded air exchanges...” oh,yeah? Well same to you but more of it!

“room full of elephants... “ what? Now it's a room full of elephants. We are suddenly being over run by a herd of them. Who let the phants out?




“by the way D9, I read something you wrote about using less
coco. I would really like to see if the same yields, quality, etc
could be achieved with lower amounts of coco.”

hi, jjfoo, thank you for the support. I think I could grow the same size plants in a 3.5 bucket. For me it's not the amount or cost of coco as much as having a stable, compact, set up.




To everyone on the subject of light. I am currently growing with one side presented because I have to. In the early parts of this thread I was growing using a radial pruning technique designed for turning plants to get the light to them “equally”. I had been doing this for years because I had read in one of the old grow “bibles” that this was a good thing to do. Several members convinced me to try leaving them in one position rather than turning them. The yields went up. So I stopped the radial pruning and let them grow to the light. Yields went up again. Then I dropped the lights down to the center of the plant mass and yields went up again. I discovered that the light can be used to shape.

I veg and flower with the same light bulb (1k hps hortilux) because I feel this technique works best if you “train” the plants to the frequencies and intensities involved while still in veg.

Frequency is not as important as sheer power. While the plant does grow best in certain ranges it is highly adaptable to nearby accessory frequencies and will use them too.

You don't get the big “show” buds up top anymore but you get more bud weight overall. Most weight occurs in the band of plant mass corresponding to the sweet spot of the lights.

I light mine one sided because I have reached the limit of electrical consumption I have set for this location. 5 lights on 8-9 plants in flower is all I can do. I have to have this number of plants to meet the perpetual harvest schedule and I can't have any more light. I also don't have any more floor space. So I am limited to these 5 lights running straight down the center. The room is only 6.5' wide.

I would much rather grow the plants in both veg and flower in an upright position, symmetrical, and surrounded by lights. But I can't so I've made adjustments.

Most of us face unique challenges indoors with light and space. So there is no “right” way that can be universally applied. You have to live with your situation.

d9

 

[Carl Carlson]

This time around during veg I kept the bare bulb centered instead of raising it over the top for vertical stretch. I think it like it. More Nodes. Thicker main stem.

 

[jjfoo]

I am hoping to try moving a light to vertical. I am going to have the center of the light at the center of the plant mass. Wont this cause the plant to grow sideways too much?

It I'm tempted to veg with horizontal lights then flower vert.


D9, did you rotate your plants at all? From my point of view they look like the center of mass is pretty well centered over the pot. I am mistaken? I mean are you relying on the weight of the container to hold them from falling over?

I'm also wondering how much heat a 1000 watt HPS will make in my room. To go vert I would have to remove it from the ducted hood...

 

[*mistress*]

I was simplying saying I was confident that center of arc tube lower would expose the plant to more light than a bulb above the plants.

plants gr0... up (^^^)...

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are doing with your lights...
...Hopefully I can start playing with vertical lighting soon and come to my own conclusions based on observations. Then we will be able to have a better discussion.

:^^^...

 

[jjfoo]

mistress,

you said plants grow up, earlier you said plants grow laterally

I don't want lateral growth (at least I dont' 'think I do)

More important than agreeing on what 10:1 odds are I want to see how plants grow with side light.

I am not able to make any predictions because my plant model has no side light data yet. I do know about photosynthesis. And have great confidence that a plant with a lower light will have more of it.

I just dn't want myplants having too much lateral growth (this is what i mean by growing sideways)


I thnk you are over simplifying to simply say plants grow up, I have plants in my yard that don't grow up, but the main growth is growing almost totally sideways as they grow from the shade to a sunny spot.

I'd like to read a study on side lighting or something. I think having the light vert and above the plants is a waste of light. Just because 'everyone does it' is never a good reason to do anything in my opinion. D9 seems to be getting great results with a lower light. To me it makes more sense, but I am open to being wrong...

 

[*mistress*]

I'd like to read a study on side lighting or something.

O X O

X O X

O X O

O=lite
X=cultivar

 

[jjfoo]

How about a verticle cool tube with the 'top' reflector in place??
I think that woud do the job..
or is useing CT not concidered 'bare bulb'??

I agree. I think a cool tube is the way to go.

I wouldn't call a cool tube bare bulb, because you have glass to block some of the actual radiant heat. To me barebulb has nothing to do with reflector or not, but if the bulbs are directly exposed. Maybe this isn't the definition people use in general.

I wouldn't use a top reflector I'd run my tube with the center of the arc tube at the center of the plant mass. The reason I am looking at vert is to do away with reflctrs.

I would us a cool tube, but don't want to buy one until I see how it works and decide to move in this direction. I am the type of guy that can get carried away and buy a lot of stuff so I need to be careful. A few months ago I was using tables and trays, I wanted to buy some industrial type tables with wheels. That would have been $600+ of stuff to get rid of now that I use no tables.


I'm thinking of running a light bare and having a fan underneath blowing straight up, without glass in front of the bulb to block the IR the plants will get hotter than what I'm used to so I think a dedicated fan will help cool them. If I like what I see, I'll get a cool tube.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

F the CT.

Naw... just kidding.

Well, not really.

But I don't want to seem harsh. Because I'm smiling right now. I just wanted to write, "F the CT."

If you set up a fan to push up, and pull out from above, it'll be sweet. IR is relevant only with regards to surface area. If you put more stuff in there, the IR heats that surface that then becomes a secondary radiator. IR is a light wave, so it's intensity is a factor of squares... the farther away it moves, the less concentrated it is.

Set up a pull duct right above the bulb, and push from below.

And you'll have greater light intensity without the loss to the second pane of glass.

babyshit.

8 9 3 4 9 3 8 6 5 9 3 8 4 5 7.

 

[jjfoo]

F the CT.
If you put more stuff in there, the IR heats that surface that then becomes a secondary radiator. IR is a light wave, so it's intensity is a factor of squares... the farther away it moves, the less concentrated it is.

yes, I am aware of these behaviors, that is why having the glass close to the light and having it cooled is a great way to remove heat. Why not remove the heat (IR light) before it heats up the plants?

F the CT.

Set up a pull duct right above the bulb, and push from below.

My room is sealed, I run an AC, dehumid, CO2. I don't want to rely on the outside weather...

F the CT.

And you'll have greater light intensity without the loss to the second pane of glass.

Do you have any ref for this? The way I currently understand it is that the glass absorbs IR (then reradiates it unless you cool the area) but doesn't block the PAR watts.

Anyone willing to measure this for us? I don't have a PAR meter. I'd like to see any meter's reading for the same bulb with glass and without.


check out this for more: http://www.controlledenvironments.org/Growth_Chamber_Handbook/Ch02.pdf

from: http://www.controlledenvironments.org/Growth_Chamber_Handbook/Plant_Growth_Chamber_Handbook.htm

I know bare bulb with mass air movement is simple and I like simple, I just feel the added complexity of a ducted light is well worth the extra work, if you dont' want to rely on the weather.

 

[Carl Carlson]

If you find any studies, please do post them.

But in this case we're talking about vertical, bare-bulbs as the primary source, not as a supplement and I think this is an advancement put forward by the underground growers.

They use vertical growing techniques in greenhouses, but with the sun. i.e. CropKing's vertical systems.

And greenhouse growers use side lighting too, but as a supplement to the sun.

 

[delta9nxs]

"

I am hoping to try moving a light to vertical. I am going to have the center of the light at the center of the plant mass. Wont this cause the plant to grow sideways too much?"

you have seen how much mine grow sideways. this is one of those decisions you have to make regarding space limitations.

"It I'm tempted to veg with horizontal lights then flower vert."

you can grow like this, of course, but i feel you are better off training the plants in veg with vertical light also.


"D9, did you rotate your plants at all? From my point of view they look like the center of mass is pretty well centered over the pot. I am mistaken? I mean are you relying on the weight of the container to hold them from falling over?"

no, i no longer rotate them.

"I'm also wondering how much heat a 1000 watt HPS will make in my room. To go vert I would have to remove it from the ducted hood...

"

a lot. but if you look at my last set of pics from the veg area you can see i run a bare bulb there with a good size fan blowing straight up past it. also there is a large reciprocating fan in the room. the room is about 400 sq ft so it doesn't heat up the whole room.

 

[*mistress*]

My new picture thread

 

[oldone]

My new picture thread

forgive me *mistress*, but new? 2004?

 

[delta9nxs]

man, i royally screwed up the last post. i hope everyone can understand it.

when you think about it all plants on earth are side lit most of the time. even the most vertically oriented tree is being hit by various side angled light most of the time. at noon at any gps position on earth the sun is rarely directly overhead. most plants are predisposed to side light by evolution.

at the point i switched from horizontal to vertical lighting my yields went up noticeably. same number and type of lights before and after the switch.

while i run a bare bulb in veg i run cool tubes in flower. again because i have to.

i've got an old light intensity chart around here somewhere, i'll see if i can dig it out.

a bare 1k hps is equal to the equatorial tropical sun at around 15 inches. i can keep my vegging plants at least that far away.

however, my plants are so large and my room so narrow in flower that i'm forced to run tubes with 500 cfm fans on them at around 8" from the closest plant material. i still burn foliage and buds. each bulb is totally surrounded by plant except for the ends.

about air movement. i've described the vegging air movement already. in flower i have 5 500 cfm fans extracting air through the tubes plus a 250 cfm pulling heat off the ceiling, which is 10'. so that's 2750 cfm being pulled through a 1200 cf room. that is if you believe the fan manufacturers. i don't.

further, there are 3 large stationary floor fans down low. a small fan to circulate more air at the ceiling level and a large reciprocating fan again.

so, in both areas when i look at plants i see leaf movement at all times. i do not turn the fans down or off during dark phases.

this is a long way of saying that a lot of air movement lets you run lights closer.

i don't supply o2 through the nutrient solution so i have to make sure the plant is getting enough from the air.

 

[delta9nxs]

"babyshit.

8 9 3 4 9 3 8 6 5 9 3 8 4 5 7."

what, are you prejudiced against 2? there's nothing wrong with 2. some of my best friends are 2's.

 

[delta9nxs]

My new picture thread

mistress, nice plants! were you or are you pistillwhipped?

 

[delta9nxs]

here is that old chart.