passive plant killer

[SCROG McDuck]

2-3 wks of only water not good for plant. especially if desire large, aromatic flowers, w/ nice texture...

boron, manganese & calcium are needed to fully & properly develop fruit. & lots of potassium - up to 4400-500ppm. in tomatoes, there is blossom end rot, in other certain plants, there is generally calcium (top) & magnesium (bottom) deficiencies... but b & mn also help fruit ripen to peak maturity... iron, manganese & calcium immobile in plant, so once not supplied, those parts w/out it stored have none...

the anionns (sulfates, phosphates, nitrates, chlorides) are held mostly in solution, not on particles...so if no flowing solution, these rinse out easy...

the opposite may be good.... increase ec to 3.5-4.0 (2500-3000+ppm). this gives slight water stress, but not much, as sub-irrigation (ppk/passive hidro) keep water present. it increases concentration of elements required for fruit/flower finishing.

I've never heard this before... Ph still 5.4>5.8ish?
Must be a B to keep the Ph there..

not every gardener do this... but ec can slowly rise wkly... "flushes" can be every 5 days. just pour in water to res, run for 24h. end...re-fill tank w/ regular ferts.

We 'are' talking PPKs here, mistress, yes? The controll tank..
I would think that it woud take more than 24 hours for
'flushing' to work in the PPKs...

flush only requires 1-2 waterings (han)...or....1-3 days recirculation.
the plant requires in-organic elememts 100% of tyme. espcially cal, mag k & sulfur during flowering + the ^^^ micros

another option, maybe in pages back... crf's. can insert a crf @ begin of season, or simple break off small piece(s) @ wk 3-4, & insert into coco. 1in down... then slow-release for final 2-4 wks & feed only r.o./h20...


if desire to increase flavor/aromatics/texture - add gh fl0ralicious bl00m. every other water @ 1/2-1 tsp/gal...


"flush" coco last 2-5 days.... or every 3rd water (hand)/1x/wk (recirculation). end..... much more difficult to insert calcium into feed regime, once absent...the fruit may suffer for 1-2 wks w/out signs - then yellow bottom leaves (>mg++), stunted, yellow tops (>cal++), small, airy fruit (>b-)...

hope this help

<< I'm not sure..

 

[*mistress*]

the opposite may be good.... increase ec to 3.5-4.0 (2500-3000+ppm).

I've never heard this before... Ph still 5.4>5.8ish?
Must be a B to keep the Ph there..

#979 this thread... acid 5.0 input. small amount nh4+ for buffer.

We 'are' talking PPKs here, mistress, yes? The controll tank..
I would think that it woud take more than 24 hours for
'flushing' to work in the PPKs...

?
in imagination, not ppk....
but ppk is soilless media, c0c0, turphas, etc....

24h continuous flow h20 over c0c0, recirc, should flush. most soilless media, maybe except 100% peat.

if desire more, add mild surfacant, or fl0re kleEan -type, that attract ions...
or, flush w/ fulvic acid, which also attract & caary ions into plant or out of media...
but, warm h20 seem work, maybe, in fiction... even han-w@ter warm water, 2x volume of container, "flush".

if by flush mean free cations in media & solution.... flsuhing roots different tek. teehee. add 40-50persent purlyt to c0c0 may also help.

what is "flush" for? to remove excess salts? excess salts dont hurt plant, @ peak fruit development. some use "p-k" "b00st"ers, etc, etc... even on instuctions, it may stayt that it to slightly "stres" planty...

cure of ripe fruit different from "flush". terrior do come from media, but also concentration of sugars & certain elements to make fruit nice..teehee

"flush" really to "flush" w/ micro-nutrients, or to keep balance of cations avail. to roots. & lots pur h20.

raise ec to increase sugar production in planty. it stored in roots, then go to fruit @ end of season...

@1100

not every gardener do this...

 

[delta9nxs]

well, i just whacked another monster! took mrs. delta and me 7 hrs to trim it.

after 8.5 weeks in the same reservoir in flower it read 878 ppm at 5.3 ph.

just for the thread history i haven't had a plant under 14 oz's in a long time. no more over 17 and few under 15. without doing the math i would guess about 15.5 average.

burnt rope, this is why i'm on this path. i am growing the biggest, healthiest, most trouble free plants of my life right now using this device. and i don't think we are through evolving it.

therefore you will understand my reticence at undertaking yet another experimental grow. but, by all means, you feel free to do one using a top drip only and keep us posted on your progress.

hey, mcduck! i'm with mistress on the flushing. mostly.

if you run a moderate ec you really don't need a big flush in one of these.

in fact, too much unfertilized flush too early can "unbind" your buds. by that i mean cause tightly formed buds to grow more loose.



you all remember last weeks defoliation photos. well, here are the same plants exactly a week later. i'll show the largest first as it is going into flower tomorrow. then in the next post i'll show the before and afters of the rest of the group.

and i might as well show the trimmed but wet bud from yesterday. the box top is 30" wide.

editing to discuss this plant. this plant is now 36" high and 7 weeks in veg. it is almost a foot smaller in all dimensions than it's non-defoliated predecessor. it looks like it has at least the same number of budsites with closer nodal spacing. it will get a plucking before going into flower and then one at 21 days. so we have about 8 weeks to see what it produces.

 

[jjfoo]

I have problems with my plants falling over and have to use stake them up. When and where do you top your plants when you root your clippings? I usually wait a few weeks then take the top off above the 4th to 6th node. Some of my plants look like yours and have no stakes others (most others...) have what look like vines growing that simply end up falling over and require staking.

 

[delta9nxs]

these are shots from after DF'ing last week and then today showing the re-leafing that has occurred. random, no particular order.

 

[delta9nxs]

I have problems with my plants falling over and have to use stake them up. When and where do you top your plants when you root your clippings? I usually wait a few weeks then take the top off above the 4th to 6th node. Some of my plants look like yours and have no stakes others (most others...) have what look like vines growing that simply end up falling over and require staking.

hey, jjfoo! i don't top my plants. i find that by growing with vertical lights centered in the plant mass i don't get the big stretch. i think lighting like this actually suppresses stretch.

the support you see on the one plant is going on all of them now. i have tried several types of stakes and cages but couldn't get the support i needed in coco.

these are 4' fiberglass rods. i use three of them to make a tripod in the coco resting on the bottom of the bucket. very stable. the rods are 99 cents a piece at tractor supply. they are used for electric livestock fences.

later

 

[oldone]

Hi D9, as always I love watching your grow.

Since you're on a 7(?) day perpetual harvest, I was wondering what your average weekly time commitment was. You go through everything from cuttings to "flip" to harvest every week. I imagine DF'ing has added a good chunk.

Also how about some closeups of your buds? Can you show us some shots of various stages of ripening from 1 plant?

I know work, work, work, but the public has a right to know!

Thanks,
OO

 

[delta9nxs]

Hi D9, as always I love watching your grow.

Since you're on a 7(?) day perpetual harvest, I was wondering what your average weekly time commitment was. You go through everything from cuttings to "flip" to harvest every week. I imagine DF'ing has added a good chunk.

Also how about some closeups of your buds? Can you show us some shots of various stages of ripening from 1 plant?

I know work, work, work, but the public has a right to know!

Thanks,
OO

i haven't added up my time lately but DF'ing has added to it. the good thing is that it is not labor intensive. i'll try to get a man hour estimate.

the flowering room is so packed right now that i have to low crawl in and out to check plants. i've got broken branches all splinted up everywhere. there is absolutely no way to get photos of any but the end plants and then i can't get back far enough to get a complete shot of one.

i'll try to get some bud shots soon!

d9

 

[oldone]

i haven't added up my time lately but DF'ing has added to it. the good thing is that it is not labor intensive. i'll try to get a man hour estimate.

the flowering room is so packed right now that i have to low crawl in and out to check plants. i've got broken branches all splinted up everywhere. there is absolutely no way to get photos of any but the end plants and then i can't get back far enough to get a complete shot of one.

i'll try to get some bud shots soon!

d9

No sweat bro,

I was guesstimating about 25 hours a week with DF.

The bud pics could be just closeups of what you just harvested...some trich shots would be great...

Something else...do you cure your buds before "disposal"?

Thanks,
OO

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Loving it.

 

[Budley Doright]

n/a

 

[*mistress*]

@ delta9nxs...

see post #1105, ^^^, there are piks of planties & lyghtie...

lyght seems very low for vertical, especially w/ trees. ...delta9nxs already found that topping trees not necessary, maybe opposite of what out-come desired. elongation (stretch) is good... when candles 1ks & when nodes are produced & developed during... nodes become flower sytes...

maybe raise lyghtie until 3-6in above the plants' tops. they likey! they stretch to create more nodes, more syde branches reach out & up & branches in the back (next to walls) reach up & find lyght...

may have to move lyght thingie up daily, as delta9nxs seem have nice Keeper, that stretch & do what gardeners deisres. especially during 1st 21 moons of flower... the terminal flowers keep reaching ^^^, as long as lightie ^^^ above them...

it may seem that having lyght shine out in direct lateral manner gives most available lyght, but try raising it/them over the canopy. they get even bigger as they reach for the zone of lateral lyght slightly above them... can see the leaves turning to vertical angle to get photons in piks... maybe force them to reach ^^^ for photons, provide larger plant mass & efficient use of candle...maybe...

oh, & flower when tit-T/chest-high... they may get obnoxious & try to get taller than human gardener...teehee. w/ cultivar like that, can slightly adjust lights every 24-48, to make them larger.... if have multiple lights in veg, stagger, so 1 maybe 6', another @ 6.5', another off-set. no strait lines w/ lights, so they never shine into ea other... if stand & face, maybe see 1, 2, 3 bulbs, not in strainght line, not up or down, or side to side...they prefer angles... the sun shines light to earth @ angles...

during stretch (no topping!), they can get 6-7pheat tall... then lower lyght thingy slightly, to bottom 1" of candle/top 1" of planty... after 3wks bloom. they fill out then... just ancient kbs/kfb lyght thingy tek... for 6-7' trees. teehee

defoliation ok, but not necessary for healthy or large planty... snipping off of severely mottled/yellow, etc, or mag-deprived lower leaves ok... over-all, though, they seem to prefer large leaf mass...

 

[SCROG McDuck]

i haven't added up my time lately but DF'ing has added to it. the good thing is that it is not labor intensive. i'll try to get a man hour estimate.

the flowering room is so packed right now that i have to low crawl in and out to check plants. i've got broken branches all splinted up everywhere. there is absolutely no way to get photos of any but the end plants and then i can't get back far enough to get a complete shot of one.

i'll try to get some bud shots soon!

d9

How about a shot of the 'back side' of the next girly to get hacked..
The whole 1 sided thing and bare bulbs are very
interesting.. now, what am I going to do with the 'brand new'
growzilla hood I just bought? HAHAH!!

Verticle bulb = less stretch.. not growing UP to the light.. OUT to it..
Do they stretch, horizontally, towards the light and
are they crazy deep, from front to back?

 

[SCROG McDuck]

Keeper

Keeper

@ delta9nxs...

see post #1105, ^^^, there are piks of planties & lyghtie...

lyght seems very low for vertical, especially w/ trees. ...delta9nxs already found that topping trees not necessary, maybe opposite of what out-come desired. elongation (stretch) is good... when candles 1ks & when nodes are produced & developed during... nodes become flower sytes...

But this 'lower light' tactic, which I could never have thought
of on my own, might be very usefull in height deficient grow spaces... many of those (like me) small space growers
could be more productive by putting their light fixture
on its' side to the right or left of the plant.
Many times there is more right, left, space, than up and down.

maybe raise lyghtie until 3-6in above the plants' tops. they likey! they stretch to create more nodes, more syde branches reach out & up & branches in the back (next to walls) reach up & find lyght...

may have to move lyght thingie up daily, as delta9nxs seem have nice Keeper, that stretch & do what gardeners deisres. especially during 1st 21 moons of flower... the terminal flowers keep reaching ^^^, as long as lightie ^^^ above them...

Your implication here is that if the light is at plant height,
'growing'/stretch stops? and if one raises it it grows/stretches more!?
Why did you capitalize the K in Keeper?

it may seem that having lyght shine out in direct lateral manner gives most available lyght, but try raising it/them over the canopy. they get even bigger as they reach for the zone of lateral lyght slightly above them... can see the leaves turning to vertical angle to get photons in piks... maybe force them to reach ^^^ for photons, provide larger plant mass & efficient use of candle...maybe...

if have multiple lights in veg, stagger, so 1 maybe 6', another @ 6.5', another off-set. no strait lines w/ lights, so they never shine into ea other... if stand & face, maybe see 1, 2, 3 bulbs, not in strainght line, not up or down, or side to side...they prefer angles... the sun shines light to earth @ angles...

Another concept I would ave never given any thought to and would
definatly arrange lights symetrically.
I was going to ask Imaginary Friend, why he stacked his cool tubes.... here is the answer... I'm going to go with 2x600 in 4x4,
verticle/neked and worry about bulbs clashing and breaking..
My fears put to rest.. thanks..


during stretch (no topping!), they can get 6-7pheat tall... then lower lyght thingy slightly, to bottom 1" of candle/top 1" of planty... after 3wks bloom. they fill out then... just ancient kbs/kfb lyght thingy tek... for 6-7' trees. teehee

defoliation ok, but not necessary for healthy or large planty... snipping off of severely mottled/yellow, etc, or mag-deprived lower leaves ok... over-all, though, they seem to prefer large leaf mass...

Do D9s grows represent this 'fact' ^^^?
or is he just DFing for 'room'?

Thanks for this info... Keeper?

 

[delta9nxs]

Quotes by Burnt Rope
“YOu should reread your very first post in this thread......it was all about passive.....then well just a little topfed....then several times a day.....Not my impression of passive....I do note however that your yields increased with top feeding.....”


so?, and, guess what? This thread was also intended to be a learning experience that I shared with others. It was never restricted to any one path or program. I have stated this several times here. I do not and will not feel constrained to any one idea or method. You make these statements as if what I have done is a negative thing. I don't understand that. This thread was intended to evolve and change, for the better. I have used research, trial and error, and observation to get to this point over a one year time frame. I have spent a lot of time and money on this project and I am realizing a substantial reward from it. For me it has been wildly successful.


“There is no way I can make you do what should be done.....And there is no way I can do it for you....”


this statement really makes me wonder what your motives are. It is totally inconceivable to me that you think you are in a position to dictate right and wrong here. “should be done”. By whose criteria? “do it for you”. You are talking to a 60 year old cancer and transplant survivor who is a veteran of strange wars which cost me two bullet holes and a knife wound. Who worked in the open ocean underwater every day for twenty years, seven of those years alone. I don't need anyone to “do it” for me except my wife.


“It will be unfortunate if you dont do a topfeed only.....” for whom?


“just sayin......However....that said.....nice yields cudos....” well, thank you, citizen!


“im just wondering why......A few too many variables injected at about the same time....top feed....new ferts...leaves.....holy buckets.....not to mention coco......”


this has happened over the course of a year so I don't understand “at about the same time”


running perpetual harvest gives me a fast track on observational time frames. A plant a week. I can implement a change and within a few weeks in most cases I can tell if it is helping or not. I will be the first to admit that what I do is not very scientific in methodology. It is more an artisanal, observational approach. but there can be no doubt that my approach has radically improved my yields.


Burnt rope, you came to me requesting help setting up a medical grow. I am more than willing to help someone with such noble aspirations. I suggest you take stock of your total participation here and rethink what it is that you really want. Let me know and I will be glad to help, if possible. if you have experiments that you would like to do with your own time and money, please do them. Here if you like. Then we can discuss them relative to my work.


In the meantime almost every question you have raised has been answered in this thread before. Perhaps you should re-read some of it. Your questions demonstrate a lack of understanding of what has transpired before your arrival.

Respectfully and very sincerely, yours, delta9nxs

 

[Budley Doright]

n/a

 

[mugenbao]

This thread was also intended to be a learning experience that I shared with others

And some of us, at least, thank you for that

It's been very informative, and I've really enjoyed watching the evolution of this system. It's clear that what you are doing is working very well for you, and that it meets or exceeds your expectations for the current incarnation, and it's arguable whether anything at all need be done to the system at this point.

If and when you do decide to try other experiments, I'll read about those with just as much interest, I'm sure.

Thanks.

.

 

[delta9nxs]

"My grandpa had an old saying......He started with the old standard.....You can lead a horse to water.....but you cant make him drink.....but a mule is harder......[/QUOTE]"



more condescending, meaningless crap that has absolutely no place in a thread about growing.

are you just bored? do you get off doing this shit? so far on this thread you are the first one to come on with all this negativity and baiting.

i think you are right to move on, you will not be happy here.

if you have some kind of medical disorder that triggers this behavior pm me and tell me about it. i will still help you.

d9

 

[Budley Doright]

n/a

 

[delta9nxs]

first, i don't use an intermittent drip.

you keep calling this the "elephant" in the room. i see it more as an annoying cockroach.

you are making huge assumptions about whether i have used drip apparatus before.

you keep trying to pin down precisely what is making this thing go. is it this or that or something else.

may i submit to you that it is the whole thing working together that has created a growing dynamic that makes plants really want to go. Synergy. The hook up. Hydraulic conductance. call it what you like.

to separate and quantify which application of theory does how much is impossible and can only be guessed at with the tools we have available as small indoor growers.

Especially since it is almost all tunable.

With each new post you make you demonstrate that you have not read or understood the thread. You have just stated, in one post, that you “have no clue why it works” yet the “intermittent drip” is the “key” variable. The whole time I don't use an intermittent drip.

Really?

You want me to tear apart a dedicated hydroponic system that is not drain to waste, that is interconnected, controlled and timed, to run one plant drip with drain to waste?

A system that is growing absolutely perfect plants at high speed with tremendous reliability?

With all your growing experience you must realize how difficult that would be.

And what a giant retrogressive step backwards that would represent for me.

So please, stop asking me to do an experiment for you.

I'm driving a porsche and you want me to go back to a beat up old ford.