passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

How about a shot of the 'back side' of the next girly to get hacked..
The whole 1 sided thing and bare bulbs are very
interesting.. now, what am I going to do with the 'brand new'
growzilla hood I just bought? HAHAH!!

Verticle bulb = less stretch.. not growing UP to the light.. OUT to it..
Do they stretch, horizontally, towards the light and
are they crazy deep, from front to back?

hi, mcduck! sorry for the delay! here is a shot or two of the plant going into flower today showing how it shapes.

the bulge in front corresponds to the sweet spot of the light.

editing to say that the last photo is to show bud count and spacing

as you can see there is nothing growing out of the back 1/3rd of the triangle.

it got stripped again and moved into flower between two lights 120 degrees apart on 44" centers. they are cool tubed.

so now we have the sweet spots of two lights hitting the plant at the same height.

the sides bulge out during stretch but the plant does not get much taller.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Will you use the fiberglass rods to tie back to in the event that the leaders grow to heavy?

 

[delta9nxs]

Will you use the fiberglass rods to tie back to in the event that the leaders grow to heavy?

yes, the arrangement is very stable. but it may not be a big problem now with the DF'ing.

it looks like it has an equal number of bud sites on a more robust but shorter frame. we'll see.

 

[jjfoo]

My miniature ppk is only 7" deep and top surface never dries out. Somewhere between my 7" and d9's 10ish depth is the wicking height of coco so his surface does dry out.
OO

I've been thinking about using a container that say 5 gallon but only 7".

If the medium is wet enough the salts concentration should be slowly evening out (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Maybe this would not scale and have issues, so I want to try it on like one plant.


Does your air gap fluctuate or do you keep it steady? This sounds like a extremely low maintenance system. I've been thinking about this since I first read your posts and am going to try a plant in a 7 gallon smart pot filled to about 7".

For the wicking I am using an upside down smart pot underneath so the wicking water doesn't have to hit another medium which I believe hinders capillary action. I have it folded in a way that the bottom is flat to the bottom of the wicking pot and the plant is up on a grating that lets the bottom pot hand down. It is a wide wick...

 

[jjfoo]

@ delta9nxs...

maybe raise lyghtie until 3-6in above the plants' tops. they likey! they stretch to create more nodes, more syde branches reach out & up & branches in the back (next to walls) reach up & find lyght...
:

The most light come off the bulb perpendicular to the arc tube. If you have the light above the plants at all you are shinning some rays at the walls. The way I see D9 doing it the primo rays are blasting the plants. I would be willing to be 10 to 1 odds that the direct light will spread growth.

I've measured that the light at the tips of the bulb is the weakest. By this I mean if you point the bulb at the light meter. My current way of doing things is that I don't want stretch. Maybe top lighting for some of the early flower time would get a stretch then side lighting could be used after that with the sweet spot being centered on the plant (light hung midway up the plant hight) for the remainder of the growth.


Do you want a stretch so the plant is thinner and the side light can get through the plant to light the back? I've never had side light but am very hopeful that I could use it one day so I could have all direct light and not have to bounce off a reflector.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

If the medium is wet enough the salts concentration should be slowly evening out (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

There are two factors that both have time components... the rate of evaporation to the air, and the amount of time it takes for an imbalanced salt profile to move to equilibrium.

If the the evaporation (and the surface driven hydraulic pressure that accompanies it) exceeds the mobility of the salts to bounce their way back down into the media, you will have an increased concentration on the top of the pot. Essentially, salts are left behind more quickly than they are reabsorbed by the solution in media.

If the opposite is true, that is, the rate of evaporation is low (imagine extremely high humidity) or the rate of solution equalization is high (imagine extremely high temps and the resulting increase in systematic kinetic energy) I could imagine an establishment of equilibrium.

Oldone's thread in his sig describes using an un-pulsed system, and based upon his observed foliage response and flushing notes, it appears that there were, in fact, some significant salt accumulations in his coco. But that, like everything else I say, is more speculation than fact.

Of course, from my observation, facts are little more than accepted speculation, so...

I dunno. I've got a pretty easy pulse system going that used salvaged parts from other projects. It's so easy for me to run pulse, I almost can't imagine doing it any other way... so that's my bias. And we don't even know what my salt/media profile looks like... but we have been shown that it works in D9s setup.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

On side lighting: the sections of my plants that have direct light are compact. The areas that did not receive direct light stretched until they received direct light. And then they became compact there.

I can see an argument to manage light to manage stretch to manage canopy density and all the other things that go along with that (like air circulation). This tool in the hands of a master is most likely to be like any other tool in the hands of a master...

In this run, I played around with a P boost early in flower to try and promote stretch as I felt my canopy was too dense. If I do it for another ten years, I'll let you know what I think.

I hope to one day use as much of the light that I'm firing (i.e. not wasting juice), and still have a way to manage the canopy density, etc. in a manner that is favorable for the development of the plants that I care for. (Like overloading P at beginning of flower... or throughout veg, or removing every second set of laterals throughout veg, etc.)

D9 uses retarded air exchanges... and maybe that's enough to address the wall of plant he puts up against the lights from the perspective of air access...

Who knows what other factors are canopy density dependent?

I could probably speculate on a few, but I'm tired.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

but it may not be a big problem now with the DF'ing.

... unless the tighter nodes create colas from the trunk that weigh as much as room full of elephants...

 

[jjfoo]

are you just bored? do you get off doing this shit? so far on this thread you are the first one to come on with all this negativity and baiting.

d9

D9,

It seems like you may be correct in your assesment of thngs.

Maybe there is just a communication failure. Maybe this guy doesn't
speak english as a first lang and comes across negative but is just
misunderstood (doesn't seem that way to me, by the way...)



Anyway, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this thread.

Before I say your thread I had something very similar to the
ppk in mind. While googling my idea I came across your thread
and was like "wow this is almost exactly what I want to do, too".

Seeing your success really motivated me to take this type of
system as a scalable way to grow. The lack of compexity really
fits my goals.

This has been one of the most practical reads I can remember
reading.

I need to get my efforts better documented so I can start
participating in this effort. I keep thinking things like, 'Oh, after
this next change I'll take a photo and post it'. I guess in my
mind I'm waiting till it is 'finished' before posting. By doin this
I realize that I am missing out on good feedback. I hope to
overcome my laziness and take some photos and write up my
ideas.



by the way D9, I read something you wrote about using less
coco. I would really like to see if the same yields, quality, etc
could be achieved with lower amounts of coco.

 

[jjfoo]

the bulge in front corresponds to the sweet spot of the light.
...
the sides bulge out during stretch but the plant does not get much taller.

wow! that is really amazing the way your plants grow

This really makes me want to get a cool tube for at least one of my flower lights so I can start practicing this technique.

When you are vegging do you rotate your plants? My fear is that they would grow sideways and not grow up that much at all and end up like a big 'L' shape which would quickly fall over. I can see that this is not the case for you.

 

[*mistress*]

selection...

below, from # 529, this thred,

My plant is sweet tooth #4, I think it's what is called the “blueberry” pheno. A hint of berry and a little grapefruit. Super smooth and great aroma. No harshness. Knockdown painkiller. It took me about 18 mos to eliminate the rest of the seed pack. Copious notes and repeated cloning. Running this cut without mothers since 2003.

^^^
+K

 

[*mistress*]

 

[SCROG McDuck]

not stop gr0ing, they may gr0 laterally. if lyght raised, elongate toward light. more red spectrum (~600-700nm) light also make stretch. if desire to make short planty, maybe train every 24h... & top highest terminal flower, when it go over certain highth, top again, or any terminal part over line... maybe try 5k-10k kelvin (blue, 400-550nm) mh candle. no hps... shorter, bushier planties, closer nodes, maybe...

another gardeners methods to make bushes. may be helpful, if desire bushes, not trees::

Chem's guide to making . bushes

selection...

set criteria. eliminate all inferior genotypes & phenotypes.
maybe 10:1, or 20:1. (10%-5% of start population)...
~50/50 i-s/s-i. vigor, both roots & foliage. etc, etc... go back to 'set criteria'.
maybe find Keeper...


for small plants >3x3x3, maybe it work, if hav no space. if have space, why?... let fill out space by veg longer & lots light from 2-3 candles & angles... +/- same fruit count...maybe

Good stuff mistress....

I'm over 60 and want that 'headbanger' strain..
Sales are secondary.. not necessary... and some times non-existant.

To those points... More, smaller plants, differnt strains.
4x4 space and growing 'more' smaller plants , in search of that killer strain.. for me!
THEN BIG!

I'm in.. with the differnt light heights.. angles..

 

[SCROG McDuck]

The most light come off the bulb perpendicular to the arc tube. If you have the light above the plants at all you are shinning some rays at the walls. The way I see D9 doing it the primo rays are blasting the plants. I would be willing to be 10 to 1 odds that the direct light will spread growth.


Do you want a stretch so the plant is thinner and the side light can get through the plant to light the back? I've never had side light but am very hopeful that I could use it one day so I could have all direct light and not have to bounce off a reflector.

Stretch, IMO, may or may not be wanted in any given garden.
Growers choice, likes and dislikes..

Mistress and IF (D9 may too but has never specified) say/use:
lights at different heights and centers, creating different lighting angles.. good for plant psycology/growth!

Plant moves to light, wherever it is.
Growers choice, likes and dislikes..

 

[jjfoo]

?
it seem that lyght shine on walls, but that trick of human eye...teehee. if raise & lower bare bulb (& view shadows on wall), will maybe find that the coverage is greatest (light footprint) w/ light(s) hanging something like this:

I didn't rely on my eyes...but rather measured foot candles.

?


placing light @ center of plant wastes lot of light energy & does not fully cover most of canopy. "sweet spot" is tops, not bottom of planty...

I was under the impression that people who grow large plants using vertical lights want side light not top light.

?

light meter? what type?
pyranometer? measuring which wavelenghts? or just lumens/lux?

I'm not talking about frequency but rather saying that total radiation across the spectrum produced by the arc tube is highest while facing perpendicular to the arc tube and the weakest light is directly above and directly below. So If I measure FC or lumens and find spots that receive more and some that are less, Im not going to know the par watts absolutely without the right meter, but I can know what spots get more light (all the colors) and which spots get less.

?

that is 1 thousan per cent sure-win!

you'd have a %90 chance. I'm was giving odds, like if wanted to place a bet. Imagine a die with 10 sides, now pick a side and try to get it, you have a %10 of getting it and a %90 of not.

?

*interesting that member jjfoo post about side light & 10:1 0dd, but never run bare bulb vert, or "side lighting"

I dont' want to make any assumptions. By you saying it is 'interesting' I am understanding this to be a way of saying something negative. Like there is no way I should make a prediction about a plants behavior and shouldn't be posting about it.

If you mean interesting in another way like (this isn't mean to be sarcastic) the actual definition of the word, then disregard this and I am glad you are interested. Unfortunately, I am not feeling this, but understanding your comment as a put down.

If this is the case, I don't think you understand my process. I have a mental model of how plants work. I use my model to make predictions. The better my model the more predictions it can actually make that match reality. The more often my model actually predicts real behavior the more confidence I put on it.

I can never prove my model works %100 in all concievable cases, but I *can* disprove the predictions with certainty.

I try to be as scientific as possible and part of doing science is making predictions that you can do expiremtns to disprove.

I find it very interesting, too. Maybe, not in the same way you do.

?

fairly simple for member jjfoo to try, or, 'experiment' w/ tek, if desire to... neither method will harm plant - whether centered or above...
either/or...

I plan to set up a vert lamp next to a hood and see what happens.

I will hopefully get great results, or at worst get some good expierience


I plant to read Chem's guide to making Cannabis bushes

 

[SCROG McDuck]

I didn't rely on my eyes...but rather measured foot candles.


I plan to set up a vert lamp next to a hood and see what happens.

I will hopefully get great results, or at worst get some good expierience


I plant to read Chem's guide to making Cannabis bushes

Great idea,jjfoo..

you'll have to, somehow' keep the hooded
plant away from the verticle plant or the hooded plant will again lumens from the verticle bulb, no?


Gotta go.. talk later.. GL

 

[*mistress*]

 

[jjfoo]

Great idea,jjfoo..

you'll have to, somehow' keep the hooded
plant away from the verticle plant or the hooded plant will again lumens from the verticle bulb, no?


Gotta go.. talk later.. GL

Maybe some time, for my first try I'd probably just put them in the same room with no shielding.

 

[jjfoo]

mistress,


I am expressing odds not how much bigger 10 is than 1.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odds for more

It was meant to be a quick way of saying I'd say I am about 90% confident of what I was saying. Leaving room to be wrong.

I was simplying saying I was confident that center of arc tube lower would expose the plant to more light than a bulb above the plants.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are doing with your lights or maybe I am not being clear. Or maybe we just disagree.

Hopefully I can start playing with vertical lighting soon and come to my own conclusions based on observations. Then we will be able to have a better discussion.

 

[SCROG McDuck]

hi, mcduck! sorry for the delay! here is a shot or two of the plant going into flower today showing how it shapes.

the bulge in front corresponds to the sweet spot of the light.

editing to say that the last photo is to show bud count and spacing

as you can see there is nothing growing out of the back 1/3rd of the triangle.

it got stripped again and moved into flower between two lights 120 degrees apart on 44" centers. they are cool tubed.

so now we have the sweet spots of two lights hitting the plant at the same height.

the sides bulge out during stretch but the plant does not get much taller.

That's some profile she has! Big on top, she is!

This leads me to believe that it's, 'up against the wall they will go'..