Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[mx628]

Is anybody currently running the compost tea recipe using Coir? How are your results? Going to switch over next round from Peat to Coir for more flow.

 

[MrTea]

I would go 90% loam ( equal sand,silt,clay) 10% compost.I would make the compost with 45% autumn leaves and small twigs and sticks for the carbon. Add 45% grass clippings then 10% alfalfa meal for the nitrogen.
I would use the same compost for aact's then add mycorrhizae at the end.

Grass clippings are also high in nitrogen#

 

[krood]

krood---

looks like you've got an nspb/philthy mix started there, but are the amendment numbers for the entire volume of that base mix? seems too low if this is the case, but too high if it were per cuft or something.

sunshine #4 is comparable to promix, yes. i believe they add coco where as promix is just peat. both are screened, sterilized, wetted, and have perlite added

Heady blunts- thanks for the reply, what i did was a double batch of the nspb/phillthy mix. i just took all of the ammendment numbers and doubled them. What do you think i should do differently? Its already mixed but if theres more you think i should throw in i could do that.

 

[krood]

Still trying to figure this out that quote didnt look how i thought it would

 

[heady blunts]

krood---

cool i've never made that mix myself but phil's results speak for themselves!

as long as you follow his and frank's recommended recipe you should be good to go!

what kind of light do you plan to flower under?

 

[krood]

Well see how it goes, i did a crazy amount of stalking the forums basically looking up almost everything dank.frank posted about his mix and ammendments, hopefully i got some that were comparable to what those guys use, As far as npk goes and such. Only thing i added extra was the diatomaceous earth, because i had it laying around.

Im going to build a diy led, ive been talking to a member named dion, and im pretty much ready to pull the trigger on 8cxb3070s tuned down so they only pull 200 watts altogether and im going to flower in a 2x4 gorilla tent. Just came in the mail yesterday. But ive got a trip planned for christmas so im not planning to start until after that. The strains i have to choose from is prayertower, or heaven mountain from bodhi also f13 from dj short, and the last to choose from is casper og and stinkbomb from archive. My plan is to run 8 plants at a time in 10"x10" buckets(4 gal i think) with a modscrog attached verdant green style. Well see how it goes might do a journal, ill probably just share some pics of my setup now and then.

 

[heady blunts]

sounds awesome krood! i'll definitely tag in if you do start a thread. best of luck to you!

 

[Phenome]

Grass clippings are also high in nitrogen#

Yea That is what I was meant, the sentence is structured kinda confusing.

 

[mrmop]

In regards to trace elements, i've read kelp meal is a great source.. if using kelp, is it still worthwhile to use a rock dust like azomite?

 

[xmobotx]

yes! basalt & glacier too

 

[mrmop]

Cool good deal!

 

[Phenome]

In regards to trace elements, i've read kelp meal is a great source.. if using kelp, is it still worthwhile to use a rock dust like azomite?

In 1997, Jared Milarch, a horticulture student at Northwestern Michigan College introduced Azomite to the nursery industry after testing the rock dust on plant growth in controlled studies on his family’s chemical-free commercial farm. Milarch conducted experiments proving his theory that Azomite works as a catalyst to help plants better absorb nutrients from the soil. -Wiki


AZOMITE® is a highly mineralized complex silica ore (Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate or HSCAS), mined in Utah from an ancient deposit left by an volcanic eruption that filled a small nearby seabed an estimated 30 million years ago. AZOMITE® is used as a naturally rich soil re-mineralizer for plants, as well as a feed ingredient for animals. In a typical chemical assay, AZOMITE® contains more than 70 trace minerals which include many rare earth elements (lanthanides). Many of these elements have been depleted from soils worldwide.


soft rock phosphate granules/powder - Consider this optional. In the past 2 years I’ve become more aware of the possibility of polonium 210 and lead content in soft rock phosphate which is radioactive. This varies depending on how it was mined and where. If you wish to use this in ACT check all available data. Look for heavy metal testing- microbeorganics.com

 

[dank.frank]

hey guys, I'm about to mix my first amended mix, Dank.Franks article on soil and amendments really pushed me to give this a shot. so I'm going to try to follow as closely as possible to what he recommends, doing a double batch. As well as using the phillthy mix as a base
these are the ingredients and doses of what i have
1 bale sunshine number four (the article said to use promix, but my understanding is they are pretty close and it is all i could get.)

Okay, just seeing this - part of the deal with Phillthy's base mix - is that it gets a portion of it's nutrition from the FFOF...or whatever bagged organic soil you prefer.

If you DOUBLE that recipe - you need to be using 2 bags of soil. In reality - I'd be using two bags of Vermifire these days. I'm not sure if 1 "large bag" of FFOF = 3 cu ft - if so, then you should be fine.

BUT - what you are missing - the T&J BioVam and BioAg Endo Vam. These are ESSENTIAL to success with the mix. If you want the mix to work like it is supposed to - you need to use ALL the ingredients. Short changing the bacteria is removing the element in the mix that makes raw organic amendments available to the plants in the first place...YOU NEED THEM. It isn't a fancy fluffy luxury item. It something you do not want to go without.

Part of the reason you get away with such low levels of nutrients is the efficiency increase when you have a proper biologically active soil.

Pro-Mix Bx already has some bacillus subtilis but with you using sunshine #4 - I'm not sure if they use myco in their mix.

Otherwise - great to know people are making use of the sticky!! Feel free to drop me a PM if you have any questions!




dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

krood---

looks like you've got an nspb/philthy mix started there, but are the amendment numbers for the entire volume of that base mix? seems too low if this is the case, but too high if it were per cuft or something.

sunshine #4 is comparable to promix, yes. i believe they add coco where as promix is just peat. both are screened, sterilized, wetted, and have perlite added.


KD---

no reason to add mycorrhizae to the mix. it only colonizes living roots so it's more likely the spores will be consumed before they have a chance to infect if you mix it in. better to apply directly to roots during transplants. i also coat my seeds when planting seeds.

Two things:

1. The "Basic Organic Soil Mix" - is just that. Basic. It should not be confused with the NSPB: FLF as that mix is much more complex and much more complete and certainly outperforms the basic mix that I freely share the ratios for. The proof of that is evident in the timeline of pictures I share in that sticky.

2. I disagree with the notion of not putting the bacteria directly in to the soil. Yes...MYCO...does require root activation for reproduction....but that is not the only types of bacteria present in the products I list.

IN ALL FAIRNESS - If you really want to follow the advice above and that of proper science...add the T and J to the soil and then add the Endo Vam to the root zone when transplanting.

At the end of every cycle, I'll re-amend and then compost the soil while another batch is in use. The amount of mycelium that covers and takes over - you'd think you had a spider infestation. There is CERTAINLY benefit to allowing the various bacterias to take hold in the medium prior to planting.

From that stand point - I really think of it as a natural process, where the bacteria themselves are in a struggle/competition with one another - just like it would be in nature...constant flux. When roots are introduced, the bacteria take hold and gradually begin to over populate and phase out their competition as the environment of the soil changes and as the plant emits signals to call for and attract various bacterias to itself.

I know I have a difference of opinion on this and I know it some what spits in the faces of the scientific understanding of such things...however, in my own experiences, I have seen better overall results just dumping the stuff in the dirt vs applying only to the roots or around the root zone during transplants, etc...

It could be just a lazy mans approach to for that matter.

This isn't to spark debate - MicrobeMan and I have discussed this at length and I fully believe he is correct in his teachings and guidance. Again, I approach it this way simply because my own anecdotal evidence supports doing so. It doesn't really make sense to me - given the science of it all - but if my results had some how gotten worse or had drastically improved by changing the format - I certainly would do so.

Thanks for pointing that out, Heady! It gives me a chance to explain the approach and reasoning behind it...right or wrong.



dank.Frank

 

[Mikell]

Most Promix products contain mycorrhizal fungi spores but as far as I can see it's negligible, marketing schtick more than anything.

 

[Microbeman]

I do not differ from what Frank stated; (if I understand correctly)

It does make sense to distribute bacterial and various fungal spores (like Trichoderma and other fungi imperfecti) throughout the medium while applying endomycorrhizal spores directly at the root zone. In this way there is a more natural ratio and timing utilized and the endomycorrhizal fungi (AM) and Trichoderma (etc) can work together more like they do in nature.

The problem with applying the whole works together at the root interface is that most mixes inclusive of Trichoderma have as much as 10,000 to 1 (or more) of Trich. to AM spores ratio and the AM may not get the chance to infect the roots before consumption by Trich. As Frank has mentioned the bacteria in his mixes have much different roles than the fungi.

In my own endeavors I create a separate AM mix (200 to 400 spores/g) applied to roots, cuttings, seeds and then activate (germinate) Trichoderma spores in a liquid applied to the soil about 1 to 2 weeks after planting (depending on growth rate observed)

I do support the statement by Frank that certain bacterial species are attracted by the plants. It forms an important part of my long held belief/hypothesis.

Excerpts from my article "Organic Growing from a Microbial Perspective"

"There are more complexities involved, such as, that certain plant types attract certain bacteria/archaea types"

"When the bacterial/archaea population has increased in response to the carbons excreted by the roots,"

 

[Microbeman]

I should probably add that anecdotal reports of supreme results from using the (Endo) mixes inclusive of Trichoderma and bacteria is almost certainly a result of Trichoderma and bacteria alone and not from endomycorhizal fungal spores. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, aside from the grower's mistaken belief that the results are rooted in mycorrhizal fungi. Trichoderma is the great protector.

 

[dank.frank]

Thank you MM for stepping in and providing the necessary clarifications to my rather elementary attempt and explaining our many previous conversations. Much respect, brother!



dank.Frank

 

[vitamingreeninc]

So Vermiculite would be the areation amendment in the soil mix? I have 2 cubic foot peat, 1/2 cubic foot vermi compost, 1/2 cubic foot oly mountain compost, 1 cubic foot lava rocks that are big and will probably make 1 1/2 cubic foot once I roll over the bag with my truck. I also have about 3 gallons of vermiculite and about the same of perlite. So do I do peat, lava/vermiculite, compost?

 

[Mikell]

I would only use vermiculite if water use is an issue re: excessive transpiration or water evaporation from high heat. That's me though Look no further than my location for any reasoning why.