Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[lolryn]

It's aliveeeeeeeeee! this rough base has worked really well for me lately. both times I've made this soil I observed a lot of activity in the form of soil heat and the fungi webs!

impressed by all this activity in only 3~ days.

mixed in 3cf of LC's #2:
1c alfalfa meal
1 3/4c kelp meal
1 3/4c blood meal
1 3/4c bone meal
1 2/4c BioLive
1c seabird guano
4tbsp Sul-Po-Mg
1c azomite
3/4c dolomite
3/4c gypsum
3/4c oyster shell flour
1/2tbsp of local made biology

 

[bigshrimp]

Its fungal for sure, mycorrhizal definitely not.

 

[lolryn]

correct, it's the biology from around here, I'm not sure which exactly strains of fungi and bacteria it is off the top of my head... either way, much life.

 

[cyat]

thanks guys for all the responses. i went with true living soil since its my first time growing organic and trying to source everthing seperate and mix it up myself.. ive posted the whole soil mix below..hopefully the organic route is alot better then i have ever grew before so we shall see come croptober

1 Part Worm Power

1 Part Sphagnum Peat Moss

2/3 Part Pumice

1/3 Part Rice Hulls

Nutrients included in the soil:
Acadian Kelp Meal @ 1/2 Cup per cubic foot

Neem Cake and Karanja Cake 50/50 Mix @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot

Crustacean Meal @ 1/2 cup per cubic foot

Gypsum Dust @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot

Brix Blend Basalt @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot

Glacial Rock Dust @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot

Oyster Flour @ 1 Cup Per Cubic Foot

just curious, where does the phosphorus come from in this mix?

 

[Dkgrower]

lolryn that is fungus and show that your soil is composting/cooking with to littel oxygen its to wet or compact and properly to N rich.

in general try not to over due it with to many different things keep it simple.

 

[D Monkey]

Thanks to all of y'all for posting.
Especially wanted to thank the person who said in another thread "check out the the # 3 soil mix in the beginners section, Organics for Beginners. As a newbe/lurker, I followed his advice even though it was not given to me, and I believe I have entered the Organic promised land. I need to print this thread off and cover it in a leather binding, it's that good.
Looking forward to putting the info to good use.

 

[lolryn]

lolryn that is fungus and show that your soil is composting/cooking with to littel oxygen its to wet or compact and properly to N rich.

in general try not to over due it with to many different things keep it simple.

I really doubt it's any of these (except possible "too N rich").

I've been using this recipe for a while now with zero problems. The soil is definitely not too compact, not too wet, and it's definitely not oxygen deprived.

I've seen this fungal action before in many other soil recipes both ones I've used and not used. I am saying that this recipe has given me a more noticeable fungal activity than "sub's SS" that I've made in the past.

I haven't had a deficiency/problem yet with water-only technique and this soil... so I'm just gonna keep on keepin' on.

 

[idiit]

made a post on rols and maximizing plant nutrient uptake for a noob and wanted to share the relevant parts:

do an ic mag search/internet search on "Albrecht organic supplement ratios". he states that lime mix is the most critical and dominant ( lots of lime mix) supplement.

1).when heavy liming using pure dolomite lime the mg in garden/dolomite lime is way too high and causes nutrient lockout. ppl wih nutrient lockout see nutrient deficiencies and want to know what supplement they are deficient in. they are often suffering excessive mg issues; lockout, not deficiency.

2). without heavy lime mix they are suffering insufficient lime mix supplement which causes another means of nutrient lockout, not deficiency. albrecht's formula focuses on maximizing plant nutrient uptake capacity. the plant's capacity to uptake nutrients is actualized/optimized by using a heavy dose of lime mix. low plant nutrient uptake capacity is a lockout issue.


with heavy liming you need to mix your own lime per Albrecht published ratios using around 65% calcitic lime/35% dolomite lime.

with heavy dolomite liming you get excessive mg nutrient lockout issues and without heavy lime mix you get poor nutrient uptake capacity (nutrient lockout, not deficiency).

organics is about a few things:

a). organics is about feeding the soil and the soil feeds the plant. it is the living soil rols concept.

b). organics is about balance and the balance is established off heavy lime mix supplements.

^this is the essential part of Albrecht that makes his method work so well. Albrecht's fertile soil is obtained by maximizing the plants nutrient uptake capacity. feed the soil so it can feed the plant optimally. this is achieved by supplements creating correct nutrient balance enabled from heavy lime mix.

^ Albrecht is fucking brilliant. his perspective embodies correct organic farming theory.

re-amendments depend on what deficiencies you have. with albrecht's formula you have very fertile soil for quite some time. I usually add a little lime mix (65/35), little organic nitrogen source, little kelp.

chelated trace minerals are critically important. easiest way to get them is sea-solids. chelated trace minerals is very often overlooked by todays organic farmers. sea-crop works great for me indoors. outdoors I use my own pre-chelated azomite. check into sea solids.

once you get it is simple. until then it seems confusing. it's well worth the effort to get the rols method down imo.

 

[larry badiner]

made a thread

 

[GoneGrowing]

Great read in here, well haven't been through the whole thread I'm really keen on going organic, and have therefore been looking at the 2 LC's Soiless mix and the different feeds.
I'm not in the states, but in europe, and while I can get my hand on some of the stuff mentioned in here, some other parts are not sold here.

So I was thinking of doing LC's soilles mix #1, and was looking for places to buy the stuff to mix it up with, but the I discovered that BioBizz's All mix actually is very close to the ratios mentioned, would just have to add some extra worm castings and dolomite lime.

here's their description of All Mix: BioBizz All-Mix is our best-selling soil mix. 100% organic, All-Mix contains a blend of 20% sphagnum peat moss, 35% garden peat, 10% high quality organic worm manure, 30% perlite and 5% ‘pre-mix’ - biologically active organic ingredients that have been fermented for a month to create a potent mixture

So guess that's very close to LC's Soiless mix #1 right and should do the trick right?

And then for the feed, recipe. I'm very intrigued by reicpe #3, and can get my hands on EWC, guano and some liquid seaweed products and molasses. But I don't think I can get my hands on different guanos, so was thinking of trying the measurements stated, but with not quite the right guanos and seaweed, would that be all bad?

Another recipe I was looking at is recipe #5 because it sounds so simple, but here again I can't get the exact products, but was considering BioBiz products again, their Fish Mix and their Alg A Mic, their description of it: Alg·A·Mic is a revitalizing product made from a high grade, organic seaweed concentrate extracted through cold pressing rather than chemical solvents. It contains a high level of natural nutrition that caters to the whole spectrum of plants needs...
and the description of Fish-Mix: Fish·Mix enables substrates to stimulate bacterial flora and accelerate growth. It is an infusion of organic fish emulsion from the North Sea mixed together with extract of Dutch sugar beet

So what do you guys think?, any input is very appreciated

 

[GoneGrowing]

in addition to the above post, I was looking around some more, and maybe I could do recipe #3 with some of these products http://www.guanokalong.nl/guanokalong-iconen-uk

 

[kasvi]

I tried to use search to find answer to these guestions but failed.
I am going to use lc's mix #1 with coir and biobizz worm-humus because I already have these. I am not using green sand or glauconite because I dont know where I can get that inside EU. For rock dust I will be using Northumbrian Basalt Volcanic Rock Dust and azomite.
Should I use albrecht's formula (65% calcitic lime/35% dolomite lime) that idiit posted instead of only dolomite lime? I want to use neem cake and crab meal as part of my ipm. This thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=258619 suggest to use crab meal [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1/2 cup to 1 cup per cubic foot and neem cake [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1/4 cup to 1 cup per cubic foot[/FONT]. Should I use minimium ammount of both or can I use more[/FONT] with recipe #1?

Does this work with water only in 3,4l containers? I am growing from cuttings. When rooted I will transplant them to 0,33l plastic cups and when roots come out of bottom I transplant them to final containers and veg for 1 week before I move them to flower.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]per cubic foot:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-Blood meal 1/2 cup
-Bone meal 1 cup
-Kelp meal 1/2 cup
[/FONT]-Basalt rock dust 2 cup
-Azomite 1/2 cup
-Neem cake 1/2 cup
-Crab meal 1/2 cup
Am I missing something? Is there to much N from the neem and crab meal?

And does any one have experience using sheep wool as fertilizer?
http://www.pjoes.com/pdf/19.5/1083-1087.pdf

 

[heady blunts]

hey kasvi, welcome to organic growing!

i'll just quickly speak to your question about container size. 3.4L is under 1 gallon---far too small to cultivate and maintain a thriving microbial population and provide proper root space and nutrient availability throughout a canna plant's life cycle.

bare minimum for water only living soil from my and other's experience is around 3 gallons (~12L). that's with a 400W or higher lamp.

you may be able to get away with smaller soil volumes in a micro grow situation with very low wattage.

i'm currently flowering under 3600 watts in 10 gallon containers. coulda done 25 gallons each but i needed to leave a few inches to walk between them lol.

provided you've got good soil and lots of light:

more soil=more roots=more flowers

 

[kasvi]

Thank you for your answer heady blunts. I am flowering under 400w in dr90 so I will get bigger pots. Does that soil mix seem ok or should I change something before I start mixing?

 

[Dnice]

Has anyone tried nectar of the gods?

 

[Mikell]

Thank you for your answer heady blunts. I am flowering under 400w in dr90 so I will get bigger pots. Does that soil mix seem ok or should I change something before I start mixing?

As an all around mix it does look heavy on nitrogen. Blood meal is the more soluble of the three N heavy amendments you've picked, it would be easier to drop for now and top dress with later if needed.

Strain choice plays a factor as well. Sativa dominant tend to be more sensitive to N.

A lime mix is preferable to dolomite alone.

GoneGrowing,

Algamic looks comparable to Maxicrop, though much more concentrated. 1-4ml per litre compared to 12ml per litre respectively.

The Allmix sounds like a great start, I believe there are even a few Euro growers on this site using it if you poke around. Try Google with the search string "site:icmag.com Biobiz All mix" for faster results than the forum search engine.

For the guano, follow the recipe but omit the guano that you can not source. Timing of application would depend on the type you can get, one is high P, the other high N.

Fishmix is a good supplement, though if you can find hydrolysate it is preferable to emulsion. Hydrolysate carries more nutrients and is comparable to what one could make at home with fish waste.

 

[blue_tick]

I have gone with recipe # 1 blood,bone,kelp,green sand . I tweeked this a little due growing sativas out doors this summer. I almost completely dropped the blood meal but followed the rest pretty much as directed with liquid karma. I wanted to thank burn one personally due to his recipe. it gave me a starting point to build from as this is my first soil grow. I think that burn one has been totally honest with his/her recipe and here are some pic's that I think will show this. some pic's will show a little yellowing at the bottoms due to my slow response to getting them out of small containers late. you can tell when they have taken root to the large pots with burn one mix.
thanks again burn one first class
purple haze x Malawi
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment...666&stc=1&d=1434052101&d=14340521011434052101

 

[FinestKindToo]

Recycling and Cooking Time

Recycling and Cooking Time

Hey gang,

I'm sure these questions have been answered somewhere in this gigantic thread, but I only read through the first 10 pages... sue me.

I've been growing for 7 years now, and have recently switched over from bottled nutes to the soil amendment techniques. The primary thing that has held me back is the simple lack of space I have to cook the amended soil for two weeks before using it. Is this step completely necessary, and does anyone have any creative solutions for storing 250 gallons of soil if it is?

Also, as far a recycling the soil... obviously it has been depleted (somewhat... fully seems unlikely). Should I just mix the fresh, amended soil with the depleted soil, or amend the depleted soil, as well? It seems a safer bet to mix the amended/depleted together, and feed if necessary, rather than adding more and more amendments to the "depleted" soil, having no idea what is actually left in it. Thoughts?

Thanks guys (and gals!)

FK2

 

[blue_tick]

finestkindtoo

I use a tarp to mix on in yard. I mixed up 300 on a 10 x 24 tarp and cover it up with the extra parts of it. as far as mixing the other soil I would mix all together and amend it all together as directed. I only waited a week but my plants were almost two months old when I put them in the mix. I went with the blood,bone,kelp,green sand. are you growing indoor or out? I went outdoor

 

[Granger2]

This is where a soil test is a great tool. I would have it tested, then leave the soil in place and topdress the amendments. If you like, you can stir in the amendments in the upper 6", but topdressing without stirring will generally make it unnecessary to let it cook. Good luck. -granger