OG Kush heritage?

[ThaDocta]

So basically this is what you're telling me.

1. You have a clone of SFV FROM SWERVE, of all people, and based on that plants performance, you're assuming it's the original.

2. You're trusting that whatever source of Ghost and SFV clones you have being legit over people with 10+ years of experience with the plant and first hand knowledge and experience of the dissemination of OG Kush clones in the early 2000s.

3. Based on growth, and other discernable characterists YOU PERCEIVE, you can prove the difference between whatever clones of SFV and Ghost YOU HAVE being different.

4. The "sfv" cut predates "ghost OG" even though it doesn't, and never will. SFV OG was NAMED FOR THE PLACE JOSH D WAS GROWING HIS OG CUT. Which is verified from both Josh and Orgnkid's mouth that it is that exact same clone through their friend MAD DOG.

6. You assume SkunkVA and ChemDog are the same person. They are not, don't live in the same areas and is IMPORTANT to all these loose string theory. The story of that clone and how it was spread, not to mention how that plant grows, places in the highly unlikely to almost impossibility of it having anything to do with OG.

7. Tahoe, Larry, Skywalker, etc etc are not some of the first "named" og's to come out. They ALL came several years (like 10+) after the original clone was in LA and had been bred successively several times at that point.

7. I am a dick. Yes I know this, but at least I'm trying to stop misinformation through Fact checking, not assumptions and notions.

 

[ThaDocta]

What do you mean Bubba is a DucksFoot cross? No it's not. Berger said it's NL bagseed from a College Buddy from Norcal. Have you ever grown DucksFoot? Because I have, as well as several Ducks Foot crosses. It ain't even close to related.


"Pre98" Bubba was never named that for any reason other than for labeling different "Bubba" clones that were circulating in the early 2000's. It was never coined as a term to designate any kind of special date, other than the clone was obtained in the winter of 97/98. But what do I know, I was the one that coined the term "Pre2k1" aka "pre98" for the bubba clone as a comparitive analysis back on Cannabis World about ten years ago.

 

[StankyBeamer]

Point proven bro, your cannapenisego is massive. You could have just corrected me. Now quit messaging me. I already spoke my peace over pm that I don't consider myself an expert, and that I was simply stating the differences I noticed in cuts of og that I have. And I was never told my sfv was from swerve, I was told it was verified as real sfv from before swerve made a back cross and fucked up the whole og market, I just assumed the clones he sold before cali connection were legit, and under that assumption extrapolated that since mine was verified by quite a few knowledgeable growers that have the same cut from the same source that they were the same cut. Thanks for the information, no thanks for the ego. This is why icmag is going downhill. Everyone's a fucking troll anymore it's so God damn annoying. Smoke a fucking joint and chill out brah

 

[StankyBeamer]

A picture from therealogkushstory (is that Josh d? Seem to remember the two names being used together)

A picture from me of my sfv. Looks pretty legit to me.

 

[Wendull C.]

This one time at band camp....

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I can get down with the stories assuming an NL relation to Original Diesel, but if we're just discussing cuts circulating post Ghost which is right around the time you hear claim of Old World Paki being a component I would say those involved in speculating genetic origin were off-base. What I mean is that chef doesn't always translate into recipe, unless you are convinced Ichiro Mashita or Hidekazu Tojo are billionaires as result of the California Roll.

Nowadays the term "old world paki" has curiously morphed into the decidedly arbitrary "Old World Kush", but I debate how much resin production one would desire late 80's early 90's as regards what the community knows Pakistani plants are capable of, reason being Afghanis consistently outperform their nearby Kush relatives by 10+%, calyx character being the obvious indicator.

If we contrast Hindu Kush & Afghanica circa 70's I still have to assume the more potent would be the worked Afghanis culminating in the 80's. The Hindu Kush might have been less harsh and more tastey historically which might lead one to believe Hindu Kush as we knew it back then was more emblematic of Pakistani characteristics, but it doesn't now or then truly account for Afghani's potency holding it's worth for nearly 40 years. Of course it doesn't help when Master Kush and Hindu Kush are lumped together only furthering confusion, Master Kush peaking in millenial favor often outcrossed to Skunk. Hindu Kush x Hindu Kush is the genesis of irresolution, but I can't blame anyone for losing track if we're going that far back. Socal Master is something in and of itself, again the Bubba speculation in this respect is simple conflation. Curiously, those who would say Master is more like Bubba than anything should know by now that the origin stories involving mention of Pakistan are umbilical to Bubba. When we had the Master Kush of old was there ever mention of Pakistan?

I feel ThaDocta's pain regarding perpetual contradictions among farmers, but I suppose I'm more fascinated with the genetic backbone more than cut verification. If we approach a consensus across the boards including, expression, structure, terpene profiles etc. we stand to gain from moving forward with the knowledge we share of breeding details.

I always appreciate speculation surrounding NL, but as comparitives go I would be more interested in the performance of genome related to HP-13 and its makeup juxtaposed with OG Kush. Then again you will hear time and time again that Hashplant has nothing to do with OG Kush, regardless that's not the point I'm getting at when I mention HP-13.

 

[expealadocious]

Shenanigins F1 x hype S1 = OG.

 

[ThaDocta]

Funny part is the "Old World Paki" part of the story didn't even surface as a even remote possibility until John (paradiseseedsmod) started Brothel Brothers seeds with Kailua Kid. They then made up this whole bullshit story out of thin air (I know becuase I knew John personally at that time in 2005/6) that it's some "old world paki" x "lemon thai" .... It was literally a 100% bullshit story made up by them to sell seeds. no relative relation to this story at all, other than another asshole making up the lineage to try and sell a bean.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I'm grateful you are proactive in sharing these tidbits and its not so off-base considering most people now agree OG Kush is probably more relative to Afghanistan than Pakistan. And thank you for your aid in keeping things on track. I just don't want it to be blame pointed at KK for his cut and its moniker, that's why I'm serious when I say its not about the cut as far as I'm concerned.

 

[rykus]

There where about 3-4 pheno's of hash plant including champaign that had the exact same bud structure/leaf ratio as OG and the same 3 blade leaves and crazy branching.... Had an earthy taste though and less smell.....

 

[Lester Beans]

Champagne was an awesome clone and did have a similar structure, but that is where the similarities end.

 

[Wendull C.]

I have smoked og and bubba since the late 90's. All this shit excluding what thadocta has to add is unfounded imo. Champagne aint even close. The only strain that shared a taste or smell with the og was ecsd from the san Fernando valley. I don't even think they are related, just that fuel taste. It was the only other strain to fetch worth more than gold prices back then too.

Too little fact and too much speculation.

 

[rykus]

Just seems to me people just think these strains popped out of the wood work, and Florida?

I started growing in 92 and in BC there was still a lot of viable bag seed from old hash importing days, some smelled and looked pretty spot on to bubba, master and purple kushes we see here, and there were already old clones of the Hash plant varieties ( although that was just the name for lots of good strains here then) that strongly resemble the growth and bud structure of the OG, and it was grown and shipped in mass by biker groups who also have had OG for a long time.... Not sayin just sayin....

There has been a HUGE group of international dealings since HID growing started producing probably 50-70% of cannabis in the high market, those are the strains that are producing bag seed that pops up all around the same time cross North America..IMO anyways.

But yes just speculation...

 

[Cartel530]

In veg they look like twins, I'll give you that. But once you flip them, it becomes quite clear by both terpenes and structure that they are very different. Someone who hasn't grown either would say they're the same plant, but when you work with them both its obvious. Also they test consistently different in thc % and cannabinoids, with the ghost usually testing higher. Seems like if larry, sfv, and tahoe are supposedly the same cuts, and are the earliest three nicknamed cuts, that the ghost would also be the same thing. Tahoe, sfv, and Larry are all definitely different cuts, and the ghost is most certainly different.

If Phenotype= Environment + Genotype (which we all know) then your argument is invalid and is actually reinforcing what the doc is trying to tell you. The clones look identical in veg because they are the same. The routes they have taken in their lives have caused the difference in a very basic trait (taste/smell) to differentiate between them and actually lead to the confusion of people that lack a deeper knowledge of the way genetics truly work.

For 15 years the plant has traveled and each room is a change in the variable for the equation above. Changing one variable inevitably changes the other. Different altitudes, temps, and nutrients all will alter the phenotype thus resulting in the plants expression of terpenes.

 

[shishkaboy]

So if a cutting gets passed or even moved to a new environment then it changes?

Explains every rename in history.

If this was the case there would be gg4 phenotypes.

If I pass a cut to my homie and his room doesn't get cold enough to show purple, but mine does. If he gives me a cut of his "green phenotype" and I grow them side by side they will both be purple.

How can the same genotype be in the same enviroment and give a different phenotype, without mutation?

If you take a pink flamingo and a white flamingo and you give them the exact same enviroment, you will eventually end up with 2 white or 2 pinks depending on what you feed them.

I just don't understand.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

So if a cutting gets passed or even moved to a new environment then it changes?

Explains every rename in history.

If this was the case there would be gg4 phenotypes.

If I pass a cut to my homie and his room doesn't get cold enough to show purple, but mine does. If he gives me a cut of his "green phenotype" and I grow them side by side they will both be purple.

How can the same genotype be in the same enviroment and give a different phenotype, without mutation?

If you take a pink flamingo and a white flamingo and you give them the exact same enviroment, you will eventually end up with 2 white or 2 pinks depending on what you feed them.

I just don't understand.

Morphology, adaptation and evolution.

 

[phatjay]

So if a cutting gets passed or even moved to a new environment then it changes?

Explains every rename in history.

If this was the case there would be gg4 phenotypes.

If I pass a cut to my homie and his room doesn't get cold enough to show purple, but mine does. If he gives me a cut of his "green phenotype" and I grow them side by side they will both be purple.

How can the same genotype be in the same enviroment and give a different phenotype, without mutation?

If you take a pink flamingo and a white flamingo and you give them the exact same enviroment, you will eventually end up with 2 white or 2 pinks depending on what you feed them.

I just don't understand.

The same way a set of parents can have two completely different looking offspring and yet they still have a mix of the parents genetics. The word "chance" is used a lot in this area of bio as well as probabilities.


About the Flamingo question, no. They may have all white or all pink or half or a variation of. This reminds me of Mendels principles of genetics. If you're interested there's a lot of info online/tube that breaks it down very easily.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_1.html

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

I can get down with the stories assuming an NL relation to Original Diesel, but if we're just discussing cuts circulating post Ghost which is right around the time you hear claim of Old World Paki being a component I would say those involved in speculating genetic origin were off-base. What I mean is that chef doesn't always translate into recipe, unless you are convinced Ichiro Mashita or Hidekazu Tojo are billionaires as result of the California Roll.

Nowadays the term "old world paki" has curiously morphed into the decidedly arbitrary "Old World Kush", but I debate how much resin production one would desire late 80's early 90's as regards what the community knows Pakistani plants are capable of, reason being Afghanis consistently outperform their nearby Kush relatives by 10+%, calyx character being the obvious indicator.

If we contrast Hindu Kush & Afghanica circa 70's I still have to assume the more potent would be the worked Afghanis culminating in the 80's. The Hindu Kush might have been less harsh and more tastey historically which might lead one to believe Hindu Kush as we knew it back then was more emblematic of Pakistani characteristics, but it doesn't now or then truly account for Afghani's potency holding it's worth for nearly 40 years. Of course it doesn't help when Master Kush and Hindu Kush are lumped together only furthering confusion, Master Kush peaking in millenial favor often outcrossed to Skunk. Hindu Kush x Hindu Kush is the genesis of irresolution, but I can't blame anyone for losing track if we're going that far back. Socal Master is something in and of itself, again the Bubba speculation in this respect is simple conflation. Curiously, those who would say Master is more like Bubba than anything should know by now that the origin stories involving mention of Pakistan are umbilical to Bubba. When we had the Master Kush of old was there ever mention of Pakistan?

I feel ThaDocta's pain regarding perpetual contradictions among farmers, but I suppose I'm more fascinated with the genetic backbone more than cut verification. If we approach a consensus across the boards including, expression, structure, terpene profiles etc. we stand to gain from moving forward with the knowledge we share of breeding details.

I always appreciate speculation surrounding NL, but as comparitives go I would be more interested in the performance of genome related to HP-13 and its makeup juxtaposed with OG Kush. Then again you will hear time and time again that Hashplant has nothing to do with OG Kush, regardless that's not the point I'm getting at when I mention HP-13.

OG's are mutants, something went wrong in a good way.... Same with the chem fam.... Hp13 is a leb paki ghani , 3 way hash plant from nor cal circa late 70's , made its way to east coast and Hawaii , sssc and ssc be the used these strains and a couple others m39 , skunk , hash plant/hp13 , NL , silver pearl , ect , just because some guys in Florida found bag seeds doesn't means other didn't aswell... Matt bubba said him self bubba seeds came from weed from nor cali....
Can any one on IC show me a thread with og in Florida that predates kromes TK? Kromes mentions on IC IN 2007 TK and talks about hows theres no proper og in florida like west coasts at that time .... And kromes TK is not even an og , I'm wondering why Fuji called his 91 bad seed og TK after kromes pre dates it .... At least were it can be documented.... Either wasy they have no idea what parents are so you can only replicate it ,, not improve it or recharge it so to say..... I think chem and og are closer related and SD is to chem... Just my wierdo opinion.....

 

[MJtheIndicator]

hash plant from nor cal circa late 70's , made its way to east coast and Hawaii

The P might have reached its true potential on the Big Island, but there doesn't seem to be an agreed average on flowering times for the clone.

How long did this flower for?

 

[Cartel530]

So if a cutting gets passed or even moved to a new environment then it changes?

Explains every rename in history.

If this was the case there would be gg4 phenotypes.

If I pass a cut to my homie and his room doesn't get cold enough to show purple, but mine does. If he gives me a cut of his "green phenotype" and I grow them side by side they will both be purple.

How can the same genotype be in the same enviroment and give a different phenotype, without mutation?

If you take a pink flamingo and a white flamingo and you give them the exact same enviroment, you will eventually end up with 2 white or 2 pinks depending on what you feed them.

I just don't understand.

GG4 is still pretty new in the terms of genetics. give her 15 years and then look at the differences the plant produces..

The the cuts will both be purple as they are the same exact geneotype so yes they would both be purple in your environment, now if it was a sister plant then the genetic makeup would be slightly different match of genes thus not allowing the hormone that causes the purple to become concentrated enough to express. (dont really see what your trying to ask with that situation)

Its nature. Phenotype = Genotype + Enviroment.. change a variable (the enviroment) you change the end result ( your pheno) a phenotype appeals to the senses.. a plant only looks and smells a certain way because thats how it expresses itself due to environmental factors.. The same reason if you take a high alkaloid producing Coco plant from Peru and cultivated it here your yields would fall through the bottom. The alkaloid extracted to make the cocaine paste is only a narcotic producing plant because of its environment. This is also why Hemp grows in some places and Marijuana grows in others.The environment in which the cannabis plant grew in determined if it was a drug producing strain or not. Humans just did an excellent job of spreading the Narcotic Effect


LOL not sure about flamingos... never caught my interests