No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[genedigger]

it didnt say it was right or justified just that whats happened was recorded in some book

 

[HempKat]

The quote you have me listed as making was retro not me, fwiw.


I think because we are living in a day and time where man is trying to create life in the same vein, my personal observations and hypothesis might be proved in our lifetimes.

Now I do not want to argue for or against any dogma, imho they all reconcile to the same meanings, which is something that is based on a great wealth of information. If we deviate it will become impossible to have a focused discussion.

Basically, from how I interpret it, God, is a "programmer" (non corporeal sentient consciousness) of life.

God being the universe itself, which works in a way as a neural network, and within the constraints of this universe God created life that would evolve to be sentient and conscious.

Now as fantastic as this may sound (the seeming contradictions in genesis are resolved in the same manner), this same dynamic exists in bits and pieces in nature and is being reverse engineered by science in our creation of artificial intelligence.

When you look at it from this framework, God created us from sin is equivalent to us evolving from beings without the capacity to make decisions based on the conscious capacities we now posses.

We we born into sin, which is simply another word impulse/instinct, the ones which counter conscious behavior. Interestingly enough this happened on a gross evolutionary scale and happens developmentally within all our lifetimes.

Now this would seem to lead to some contradictions, but If you extrapolate the theory further it can continue to fall into place even from a physics standpoint.

Intelligence has been turned into a physics equation that operates more effectively than human intelligence when run on a computer.

I linked that in this thread. There are many, many real scientific realities that can potentially explain biblical mysteries. Just as is the evidence on neurological levels that we are hard wired and benefit from belief.

Beyond that though, past the physical sciences the social sciences now recognize the value in regards to our well being.

Dogmas describe what science is uncovering to be reality, depending on how you interpret things. For me the rabbit hole goes deeper but it is all relative to what I have read or know, as more data is presented I tend to reevaluate my beliefs accordingly.

None the less I don't let them dictate my interpretation of the the value of humanity, but understand the nature we are subject too

Universe grows like brain

http://www.livescience.com/25027-universe-grows-like-brain.html

A Brain Cell is the Same as the Universe

http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/brain-universe.html

Physicists Find Evidence That The Universe Is A 'Giant Brain'

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/27/physicists-universe-giant-brain_n_2196346.html

Quantum neural networks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_neural_network

'Cosmic Web' of the Universe --"Reveals an Enormous Non-Random Network of Galaxies"

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblo...normous-non-random-network-of-galaxies-1.html


Universe as Network Deriving the Standard Model Plus Gravity from Simple Transformation Rules on Discrete Event Networks

http://www.goertzel.org/papers/eventnet.html

The Cosmic Web, or: What does the universe look like at a VERY large scale?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74IsySs3RGU

Your Brain, the Internet and the Universe Have Something Fascinating in Common

http://techland.time.com/2012/11/28...niverse-have-something-fascinating-in-common/

Well when it comes to what is God? I'm not opposed to the universe as being one big living thing responsible for it's own creation as we now know it and responsible for the creation of life within it that we know as ourselves but are also integral components of that larger "god being". That fits pretty well with biblical descriptions such as "I am the Alpha and the Omega". When it comes to the concept of original sin though I think that's a man made creation, something used as part of the crowd control mechanism of religion. An attempt to convince people they need to be a part of a religion and embrace all it's beliefs or risk eternal damnation. In other words trying to control thru fear. What bothers me about it is there are people ( non Christian monks) who give up all worldly possessions and dedicate there live to peace and charity to their fellow man. Yet the bible essential teaches that such people would be just at risk of eternal damnation simply because they didn't belong to the right religion or recognize the right embodiment of God. If God is this being of great forgiveness and love then how could he possibly condemn someone who has lived their lives practicing Christian like principals simply because that person didn't belong to the right religion and recognize Christ as the son of God?

 

[D. B. Doober]

God and the Universe is at an individual level. You are your own being, you choose your own destiny through your actions in combination of what your place in the Universe is. That is, you're your own dude and are a part of life/existence. Every part of life has a reason. Organized religion is an extension of the relationship between God/the individual/the Universe

 

[Weird]

Well when it comes to what is God? I'm not opposed to the universe as being one big living thing responsible for it's own creation as we now know it and responsible for the creation of life within it that we know as ourselves but are also integral components of that larger "god being". That fits pretty well with biblical descriptions such as "I am the Alpha and the Omega".

Yeah, which is pretty much the same concept religions are basically getting at.

When it comes to the concept of original sin though I think that's a man made creation, something used as part of the crowd control mechanism of religion. An attempt to convince people they need to be a part of a religion and embrace all it's beliefs or risk eternal damnation. In other words trying to control thru fear.

I want to touch on this concept here because I think it is important.

My conclusions are different, and I find they ruminate the same way with other religions as well, as does the macrocosm/microcosm example above.

Sin is a difficult topic because simply put it is a natural part of our being, and for this reason If find the concept of sin is easiest understood when you look at it from a Buddhist lens, especially when discussing it with people who take issue with religion because of it.

It becomes something personal because majority of us embrace that part of our selves to some measure or degree.

Here is how Buddism looks at the same dynamic but in regards to causation to each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_spiritual_realms

Removing all the hyperbole and put context back to Christianity, Christ was sent help the people who couldn't keep from giving in to those base proclivities so they might understand the concept and gain a measure of control over their own behaviors for societies benefit.

Buddhism did the same thing, ask did many other religions, with many of the same conditions being considered sinful/wrong.

Stealing is one good example. It is considered one of our most base behaviors, in many cultures, philosophies and dogmas.

This is moral code, which when prescribed to, elevates a society, and happens across the board if you look at things from an anthropological lens. We evolved to be moral. I could go on in real depth about "sin" but I don't want to lose focus.

I will say this. Sin is not what people make it out to be, it is not a disqualifying factor when it comes to enlightenment through faith.

It is a part of our para sympathetic nervous system from which we evolved, and the reason religion formed was because we had this magnificent frontal cortex that we had evolved to possessing but still did not use it to capacity.

Religion is a tool to help guide man into his evolutionary potential from a base instinctual animal to a conscious sentient being.

I do believe the various "godheads" (christ, buddha, etc) to be genetic permutations that were already rooted in man kinds evolving genetic code, designed to express themselves under certain conditions.

Genetic Phenotypes

see its hard not keep on going with this one.

If you want a good example of how we can let our conscious mind command or karnal (instinctive) mind for the sake of humanity the self-immolation of Thích Quảng Đứchttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức#cite_note-1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức

you can find the video of the event, where he sets himself ablaze and commands his body to be still throughout

then watch all the other self-immolations

This man harnessed the consciousness we all posses in such a way that NOTHING could force his instinctive reaction, not even burning to death.

His actions changed the world.

What bothers me about it is there are people ( non Christian monks) who give up all worldly possessions and dedicate there live to peace and charity to their fellow man.

There are many dogmas and philosophies that say we should lose attachment to things. Remember Christ said it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven

Rich man means more attached to the material world than the humanitarian one.

In context with the conversation at the time he spoke of it, Christ was speaking about people who pretended to live by the law of God but were living according to the law of self, like the Jews exchanging money in the temples.

Yet the bible essential teaches that such people would be just at risk of eternal damnation simply because they didn't belong to the right religion or recognize the right embodiment of God.

The bible does not teach that. It contains stories of judgment in context to humanity at the time and place it occurred.

This is why an anthropological lens is so important.

There are two laws in the bible, the old testament which is the law of Judaism given through Moses, and then there is the new testament which is the law of god give to the world.

The old law is not for anyone but Jews.The Torah is also meant for the Gentile but with far less rules to observe for the same benefits.

There is an enigma because of difference between the "old" god and the "new" god

This is an entanglement as well.

The way you are in line with God REGARDLESS of religion is to embrace your consciousness for the good of those around you.

This is common theme among most philosophies and dogmas.

If God is this being of great forgiveness and love then how could he possibly condemn someone who has lived their lives practicing Christian like principals simply because that person didn't belong to the right religion and recognize Christ as the son of God?

Read the gospels of Paul for the proofs you seek.

God is not condemning, The bible simply states that we are designed in such a way that we can condemn ourselves if we choose to, all based on our behavior.

The concept of judgement at the end of life is the weight of your good karma against your bad, the remainder of which is the mark you left on the world.

One of the reasons so many dogmas and philosophies believe in judgement is because it happens.

All those "near death" or "our of body" experiences people have where they experience life when they are clinically dead are having a real experience.

It is caused by the release of DMT when we die, same as when we are born. And what happens when you almost die (and probable when you do), life flashes before your eyes. It would appear like the process of understanding karma and judgement is something deep within our physiology.

 

[armedoldhippy]

So you are dismissing the current mass murders and barbarism by Muslims around the world, including here in the U.S.? How convenient for you to ignore what is right in front of your glassy eyes. You have never heard a religious person say they hate atheists? That's funny! But you have seen religious persons kill atheists. You couldn't have missed that, as it happens every day in some parts of the world. In the muslim world, atheism is grounds for immediate murder and desecration of the corpse, again, something even wild animals don't do. I'm quite familiar with how lions kill/eat their prey. There is no hatred involved. You must have known that, but continue to be obtuse for the sake of argument. I don't know what point you were trying to make, but it was an epic failure, whatever it was.

if you want to discuss the obvious barbarism of ISIS and corruption of the Muslim faith, let's do that. but stop dragging the damned crusades & ancient history of Christian sins into todays discussion. I have never tried to defend radical Islamic insanity, nor would any other semi-sane human. no, I have not heard anyone of any religion say that they hate atheists. the only "epic failure" on here is your dogged determination to link your families religion and your horrible early life with ALL Christianity. you don't see it, but most of the rest of us find it to be obvious. no hatred? you spew it regularly. when you stop doing it, i'll stop pointing it out. until then...

 

[HempKat]

May I ask where aliens are mentioned in the bible? Would be interested to read that bit again as I must have missed it.

Cheers

It's all up to how one interprets things of course but Eziekel talks about wheels and strange 4 headed creatures with some human like characteristics and many feel the wheel is a reference to a flying vehicle of some sort and that the creatures are aliens.

 

[HempKat]

them vs us doesn't exist

it is humanity against itself, human nature versus human nature.

sadly you don't even see your own programmed deviation.

Why is it that atheism was born from religion?

Why was the counter culture born from the mainstream?

If you look at human nature one of the common variables is that when people deviate form the norm they do it in a polarized manner, not a logical one. A logical one includes problem - solution propositions.

It is part of our para sympathetic system as opposed to the sympathetic one.

Letting the one guide the other is not logical.

That is simple biology.

Well I always looked at it this way Atheism is born of religion because religion is all about believing in God whereas Atheism is the lack of that belief. If religion and God did not exist then Atheism looses meaning. How can you not believe in God if there is no God to not believe in?

Same with Counter Culture vs Mainstream. Counter Culture by definition is opposed to or at least variant to Mainstream. So if there is no Mainstream you can't by opposed to or at variant to something that doesn't exist.

 

[HempKat]

Of course, we may all still just be micro organisms living on the surface of our electron-earth, spinning round our nucleus-sun, in a strand of amino acid , inside a protein , in the leg tissue of a spider mite who is happily chewing away on a huge cannabis leaf somewhere- blissfully unaware of our existence ..... Who knows.

When I read this I find I keep thinking of a line from the song "Loser" by Beck

And my time is a piece of wax
Falling' on a termite
Who's choking' on the splinters

Don't ask me why.

 

[Siever]

It's all up to how one interprets things of course but Eziekel talks about wheels and strange 4 headed creatures with some human like characteristics and many feel the wheel is a reference to a flying vehicle of some sort and that the creatures are aliens.

The bible also states somewhere that god changed somebody into stone because (s)he looked back at a city being destroyed by the wrath of god. This stone is still at the borders of the dead sea. Let's assume that this rock once was alive and thus that this story is true.
About extreme christians hating atheïsts: they will never say it literal, but the way they talk about everything that is not according to their beliefs says enough for me.

 

[HempKat]

Apologies for the wall of text.

Love one another.

No problem and sorry for when I complained about it before. I still see it as a tactic some use just to try to stifle debate by splitting hairs but I only said something then because there were worthwhile points I wanted to counter by I ran out of time and had to go and it frustrated me because I knew by the time I got back to the thread it would be several pages later and would seem too padantic to try to continue that line of discussion.

 

[HempKat]

Just be careful where and when you express those beliefs. Remember, "believers" have permission from their gods to kill you on the spot if you don't agree with them. See Islam today. See Christianity in it's heyday, during the inquisition or the Crusades. Religious people hate atheists, and they will not hesitate to kill you for it.

Ironically, at least for any Christians that make it to their vision of Armageddon, they too will be persecuted and killed for their beliefs.

 

[HempKat]

We only live on through our children, imo.
Saw that a lot in myself after my mum died.
And I see a lot of my ways in my lil daughter, strange feeling

On the topic of an afterlife, if I'm correct in believing that our spirit, that which lives on in the afterlife is energy transformed then I'm inclined to believe it is not bound to mortal concepts of time and space.

 

[HempKat]

The bible does not teach that.

Sure it does

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is saying you can't come unto the Father, (Go to heaven) unless you believe in Jesus. Some religions take it a step farther by saying you also need to be baptized.

My reference was more like for some Buddhist or monk of some other belief that lived a selfless life helping others when he can. According to the Christian faith he's not going to heaven even though he's exhibited Christian like values and morals all his life.

I believe that if there is a god that will one day judge us them the judgment will be based on what's in your heart not what church you belong to or which belief set you ascribe to.

 

[HempKat]

The bible also states somewhere that god changed somebody into stone because (s)he looked back at a city being destroyed by the wrath of god. This stone is still at the borders of the dead sea. Let's assume that this rock once was alive and thus that this story is true.
About extreme christians hating atheïsts: they will never say it literal, but the way they talk about everything that is not according to their beliefs says enough for me.

Yeah that was Lot's wife during the destruction of Saddam and Gomorra. God was willing to spare Lot and his wife by letting them leave before the destruction started and allegedly instructed them to not look back. Well like a typical biblical female she couldn't resist temptation and against God's instructions she turn and looked and was immediately transform into a pillar of salt.

Which brings me back to my earlier point that if God made us he made all of us including our weaknesses and our evil, wicked ways that angers him so much it drives him to a point of anger where he wants to destroy us because of our imperfect evil, wicked, ways. Which by the way seems like a rather extreme, childish, reaction for the being that created the universe and everything in it. Anyway if he wanted us to be more moral then why not create the majority of us to be more inclined to be moral such that immorality was the exception rather than the rule?

 

[BrainSellz]

The kybalion seems to have a lot of great knowledge, wisdoms, and answers. "Hermes Trismegistus" is the name they gave to this teacher of what is known as Hermetic philosophy. His life and teachings evolved around the time of Moses.
Hermes teachings are mostly surrounded in secrecy, hence given the term "hermetically sealed". The reigning religion would kill anyone practicing this or probably anything other than what was being forced down your throat at the time.

Best book I have read breaking down the Kybalion is- Divine Magic by Doreen Virtue. It's just more food for the brain.

The Vedic Civilaztion is another interesting "philosophy/religion".

 

[genedigger]

atheists attack religion.ive heard this from atheists themselves.this thread is proof.the atheists on here are vicious towards folks who practise religion and even those that just dont believe their theory.at least most christians try to bring you into their fold with love.regarding the crusades.not that many people died compared to other conflicts that have happened.atheists love to bring up the crusades but they seem to forget the armies involved in those wars rarely exceeded 20000 or 30000 people.more people died during the mongel conquests and there wasnt anything religious about the golden horde.if you calculate death totals caused by just religion and compare it to other causes of death there not the same.religion is not what kills people.

 

[mr.brunch]

Erm.... I am an atheist ( or so I am labeled) and have never been 'vicious ' towards anyone's religion, Christian or otherwise- so to say that "the atheists on here are vicious " is plain wrong.

 

[genedigger]

have you read this whole thread?maybe you are not but most ive met make it there goal to debunk the god theory.

 

[mr.brunch]

Yes , some people feel compelled to push their beliefs... But not all. Best not to generalise as life is very rarely black and white.
After all, some religious groups are pushy with their beliefs (if you don't believe what I do you will go to hell- seems quite an aggressive standpoint in my humble opinion) but I would not tar all religions with the same brush

 

[armedoldhippy]

Erm.... I am an atheist ( or so I am labeled) and have never been 'vicious ' towards anyone's religion, Christian or otherwise- so to say that "the atheists on here are vicious " is plain wrong.

pretty sure he was not referring to you, mr. brunch.