No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[Mad Lab]

NO religion is exactly right. anything made by man will have faults even though every religion claims to be "inspired by God." all inspirations are interpretations, and lots of things get lost in interpretation/translation. even a perfect concept on paper will get fucked up out in the field, because people...well, they fuck up, LOL! they are human...

agreed.

although when it comes to the bible, it is an amazing book, because we have "scientific evidence", thats right, that the book hadnt been changed for 2000 years. that evidence is the dead sea scrolls.

but i agree that there are differences with interpretations and translations in any religion, including the Bible, making every individual different. this is human.

 

[Mad Lab]

I wonder what alien religion is like? Think they all know 'bout Jeebsus? Jesus and Moses and Mohammed are all from Earth...or heaven? At any rate, aliens wouldn't know about them, they'd have other prophets or messengers. That's cool.

I doubt any of those names come up. but i believe that most life forms that evolve to intelligence (freewill and self - awareness) may have an experience very similar to the human experience.

this is speculation, but i would assume any animal evolving (regardless if primates or not) would likely run into the same universal truths that humans do.

as i stated before, if god exists, i doubt it revolves around us. we are just one of many intelligent lifeforms in the universe(s), likely an unfathonable number out there.

if 'god' or an omnipotent energy that makes our universe 'alive' if it even is, to say he is focused on one planet with one species, is rather arogent.

but i believe other lifeforms would have (or evolve) to the point of wanting to serve something higher than themselves and possibly relive the same experiences as humans.

 

[Weird]

Weird,*
Your argument is weak and infantile at best. In short, you claim I am merely Projecting because I don't see things your way.

I said you projected your cognitive nature onto the minds of others because of your statement. You put all of the culpability of extremism on the extremists yet acknowledge the influence of those around them. As someone who feels victimized by extremism as your following post denotes I have to ask, does that bias your view of the matter?

Not only that, but the questions you ask of me show how presumptuous you are about what you think you know about me.

Don't let your emotions shrink your logic, If I was presuming something I would state how I thought you think. I asked question so it wouldn't be presumptuous.

Your emotions are making you irrational and in further paragraphs extreme. Seems the nature you claim control over is rearing its ugly head regardless. Hate begets hate, misunderstanding creates misunderstanding, and violence perpetuates violence.

I was born and raised in Venezuela in the boarder with Colombia, born in a family of mizrachi Jews that were expelled from a certain Muslim Arab country in 1902. My grand-parents only spoke in Arabic and broken spanish. They were given a choice, they could either leave with the clothes they had on or get executed, as at that time tolerance for the dhimmis had expired and the Muslims wanted all properties and money as jizya from all Jews. When they reached South America they had nothing, nada, zip, not even a siddur were they able to take...guess what though? They had been living in that same area for a thousand years before there even was Islam.

I have spent a good portion of my life with working with Syrian/Egyptian Saphardic Jews exiled for the same reasons. I am treated with equity in that community which is very xenophobic but I assume you know this.

With that said I have also met Egyptian Muslims who were friends with Egyptian Jews. Some hold on to the resentments of the past some do not. Some believe in God, some show lip service out of fear of social stigmatization and I am willing to bet that most people from those regions all lived there for millennium before they relocated.

My maternal grandparents immigrated from Spain, Castillians, leaving the homeland of their ancestors because of strife. But none of this is relevant, because I was not casting judgement extolling one religion over another.

What IS relevant are the benefits American interest gain while the state of the middle east remains the same. What is relevant is that they know these belief systems are susceptible to propaganda.

That was the extent of my comments on how we nurture extremism

Your internalization is on you.

So don't try to act like you know anything that I don't and much less try to wax philosophical about experiences that you have only heard or read about, but have never lived.

So you know the extent of my life but I cannot fathom the extent of yours.

I remember seeing a neighbor getting his head blown with a 45 as I was riding my bicicle in front of my house when I was 9 years old, all over a girl. That was in Venezuela...

and in the context of religion and our conversation this means what?

I have a huge laundry list of suffering that changed me, would you like to compare?

Do you think you have any choice in how it effected you?

Fast forward to when I did my 3 years service in the IDF, where I got protection and blessing from the biggest Arab family in Hebron for saving a girl of their family from her boyfriend who had set a car on fire with her trapped inside. Mustarabi sayeret son!

Or many years later, Lebanon 2, reserve duty, having to rescue a Fatah militant that was thrown off a roof by Hamas lol... Our commander had us go out to buy him a prayer mat so he could pray while recovering at a Safed hospital...

I could go on and on, but I have already talked way more than I feel comfortable with, I may edit this post later on...

If you are ashamed or haunted by your memories or life experience you have my deepest condolences.

Poison to medicine tom, you'll figure it out, your almost there, but I certainly understand the polarity in your thinking.

While you are feeling sorry for the poor Germans before WW2 and trying to understand 'the other' and blaming everyone of 'projecting' take a look at how much nonsense you talk about, the power principle? lol please, falling for new age nonsense much?

First of all I wasn't being a Nazi sympathizer, if you interpret it that way that is on you.

You didn't watch the power principle and see documented proof of how the CIA teaches and arms extremists to provide political gain for corporate interests.

What I speak of is documented reality, your denial or slander of it doesn't change it.

You can't even convince a couple of herb loving posters on icmag about your ideas and yet you buy into that stuff, hilarious

Peace!

Its ok tom youll get it one day

every one does but not always in time for it to make a difference

I am sure like so many others here the problem is so big that you can't deal with it so you have adopted the mantra you posses.

If people don't have a proper moral compass cull them, there genes are bad?

This is how Hitler polarized Germany.

The German people were down, they were overwhelmed with problems so he projected them all onto the allies and the jew.

This is how sales psychology 101 works.

Why do people buy drills? because they want a drill or because they want to make a hole?

When you understand the power of the nuance you will start to understand how propaganda can easily funnel people into making choices.

Hitler made the solution to all of German peoples problems simple. War and genocide.

This has been studied, disseminated, studied, understood and replicated for the same purposes even today.

So if you really want to end strife and terrorism we have to end the ignorant notion that belief is and must be homogenous for us to coexist, to think any other way is to promote the same mantra as the Nazi regardless of how harsh that sounds.

Very similar to the problems in Africa, a continent starving and being marginalized by foreign corporate interests.

or is it religion that keeps every one from helping them? wait religions are one of the few humanitarian institutions doing anything about it.

 

[Weird]

point is

in the right conditions most anyone can become an extremist especially with outside manipulating influences that understand the dynamics before hand

In matters of perception what is made can be unmade

 

[Jericho Mile]

How we feel is manifested based on our perception. If that varies feelings vary.

Do you and I know how hunger feels? or how happiness feels?

Yes

Are those feelings stirred in the same way by the same things?

No

Based on your comment, it sounds like your perception is contained to the depth of your understanding, which is under your control.



Interesting, because I learned Buddhism here, for free, bereft cost, either monetary or through effort to conform to a mantra of origination.

Once again it seems you speak from your perspective, not based on reality outside of your own.

I understand your resistance to accept that there are other dynamics to our being because it might force you to look for those things within yourself and apparently those are not aspects of yourself you have developed, for whatever reason.



We are free willed computer entities at that. I don't need to know where you have been to understand your perspective. Based on perspective, yours lacks observations that come with specific life experiences which is often reflected by our age.



Do you understand the conundrum of that statement?

I can't understand how you feel but you can understand how I sense. Where are how are those functions happening?

individually in our minds.

The sense of humanity you shit on is practiced by many people here, in various forms but Buddhism is one of them.

Slander what you don't understand at your own peril.


I live as I choose to that was the point of the post before, I march to the beat of my own drum.

I don't need to do it from a perspective that marginalizes others or breed apathy.

I can afford to live according to my own desires while playing nice with others, without marginalizing those different than me.

Anyone can live a narcissistic, materialistic, apathetic life where the only one that really matters is them self. If that did anything for more I would be all about it.

Not fulfilling.


My body is most certainly my temple but I admit am not perfect, at clsoe to 50 and mid winter im a bit overweight right now since I am SAD bipolar (210 5'10") but I do still have pictures where I am 235 and under 10% body fat. I trained quite extensively as well as worked a very physical job in my youth. It never satisfied me. It never made me feel complete. It never made feel better.

I have spent a good portion of my life on the water, in conditions won't brave, have been deep in natural elements many times.

I eat organically, I grow completely organically, and expect the same from the work I do, I don't give less to others than I expect for myself.

I have lived a physically challenging life but I have also live in dimensions outside of that. Have you?

Can you rise to a challenge outside your comfort zone? What happens when the impermanence of life keeps you from living it on your own terms or is your will superior in that this will never happen?



A degree in what

physical dominance via the internet?

comparative apathy?

competitive belligerence?

If you came to help people understand you have to understand how to help people

you don't seem to have much regard for people so what is your agenda?

Entertain myself...as always. I'm not here to enlighten or help anyone. Is that what you think you are doing? People...I found a long time ago (since we are of the same age..you and I) don't want to be helped....no..most think they might want help..but nope...they just want attention..and for someone to give a shit about them. You like that?...you want to help out?...give a brother a hand up to the enlightened mind? I couldn't if I tried...admittedly..but I'm aware of that..I do not grasp that need

Agenda...yes of course..beyond the entertainment...the meat. I'm aggressively against organized religion and passive aggressive know it alls....who like to spread their cloak of the kind kind brother. I do not see you as such...but they are here...waveguide for example...as this is my 2nd run in with the guru. He likes me..and me him.

If I'm bothering you...beg the pardon...but the thread has become a religious fueled crock of shit....pushing along falsehoods of the new utopia..that exists...only in an individual's mind..and not in the physical world of the masses. has never...can never. i know it will be argued...fine. show me. show me now...right now..in this age...where the turn has been made...and hey...I'll run along and go explore it.

perhaps..people should lighten their burdens...and concern themselves more with fixing themselves...rather than concerning themselves with their worldly opinions on the levels of humanity...or pencil whipping their system educations on those they feel they can pounce upon/manipulate....but what? hey....people need to fix people...it's a godlike complex..certainly


if anyone on here was somehow calm...secured in enlightenment...we'd never know. sure as fuck wouldn't be typing here. that's the dead give away....the need to voice opinion...over all else. this seems close to honest..the real cause for manias and needy complexes.

but yeah...keep training, dude. when the health goes...so goes...the fun. Maybe I do know something...as that's real and true. fuck the bullshit...sitting around on a computer contemplating the universe and humanity...is rather wasteful in a short life....but here we are

unenlightened...tic tic tic. tomorrow I run the mountains like the beast..I am. Free of opinion...and pleading weak noise

 

[GMT]

Could I just go back to the original post,
Within the text, this jumped out at me
" Classical geodesics eventually cross each other, and the points at which they converge are singularities. In contrast, Bohmian trajectories never cross each other, so singularities do not appear in the equations."

Observations though don't tally.
http://t.space.com/all/7678-black-hole-closer-earth-thought#2"The researchers determined that the black hole V404 Cygni is located 7,800 light-years from Earth ? or just slightly more than half the distance that was previously assumed.

That puts it relatively nearby to Earth, where the distance to the center of the galaxy is about 26,000 light-years, and the nearest star beyond the sun is a mere 4.2 light-years away.

The more accurate distance measurement will enable scientists to paint a better picture of how black holes evolve, the team says."



So is this why its not being talked about?

Oh and 1 book about the magical Jesus and 7? About the magical harry potter, I do hope we aren't basing reality on whether or not there's a book on it.

 

[Mad Lab]

point is

in the right conditions most anyone can become an extremist especially with outside manipulating influences that understand the dynamics before hand

In matters of perception what is made can be unmade

precisely.

which goes back to my original point:

dont judge a philosophy by its abuses.

 

[Mad Lab]

Entertain myself...as always. I'm not here to enlighten or help anyone. Is that what you think you are doing? People...I found a long time ago (since we are of the same age..you and I) don't want to be helped....no..most think they might want help..but nope...they just want attention..and for someone to give a shit about them. You like that?...you want to help out?...give a brother a hand up to the enlightened mind? I couldn't if I tried...admittedly..but I'm aware of that..I do not grasp that need

Agenda...yes of course..beyond the entertainment...the meat. I'm aggressively against organized religion and passive aggressive know it alls....who like to spread their cloak of the kind kind brother. I do not see you as such...but they are here...waveguide for example...as this is my 2nd run in with the guru. He likes me..and me him.

If I'm bothering you...beg the pardon...but the thread has become a religious fueled crock of shit....pushing along falsehoods of the new utopia..that exists...only in an individual's mind..and not in the physical world of the masses. has never...can never. i know it will be argued...fine. show me. show me now...right now..in this age...where the turn has been made...and hey...I'll run along and go explore it.

perhaps..people should lighten their burdens...and concern themselves more with fixing themselves...rather than concerning themselves with their worldly opinions of the levels of humanity...or pencil whipping their system educations on those they feel they can pounce upon....but what? hey....people need to fix people...it's a godlike complex..certainly


if anyone on here was somehow calm...secured in enlightenment...we'd never know. sure as fuck wouldn't be typing here. that's the dead give away....the need to voice opinion...over all else. this seems close to honest..the real cause for manias and needy complexes.

but yeah...keep training, dude. when the health goes...so goes...the fun. Maybe I do know something...as that's real and true. fuck the bullshit...sitting around on a computer contemplating the universe and humanity...is rather wasteful in a short life....but here we are

unenlightened...tick tick tick. tomorrow I run the mountains like the beast..I am. Free of opinion...and pleading noise

i get it. im a christian and believe in fairy tales, so people think thats stupid. but my beliefs include me being persecuted for expressing them, i knew that going in. so no biggie.


but listen to yourself buddy. you dont sound intelligent or like a pleasant human being. you sound almost worse than Dr Fev or Retro. why not stop making others with your belief system look bad? i get it, my fellow christians do the same, give us a bad name. but im talking about you right now, how bout be pleasant and debate like an adult.

 

[Weird]

I will say this

Tom and Jericho, based on the amount of rep I have gotten from you tow in the past and based on the posts that earned it, I felt I could objectively discuss your perspectives here without offending. Apparently my understanding, desire and the outcome were not consistent and for this I apologize.

We all suffer from the human condition, we are all effected by our beliefs and there should be an objective shame based on this.

You can pay a business coach a few hundred dollars and hour to tell you how your limiting beliefs are effecting you or you can see a shrink or you can hear it on a message board.

You can't avoid that fact that we all have assholes, you me and everyone else.

If you can't question your own beliefs then there is a flaw in your ego, it is over inflated past the point of reality.

I say this as someone who respects you both and offer it as a tool not a weapon.

 

[GMT]

OK, I tried to resist.
The Christian god is egotistical and genocidal. He abandoned his own son, and has never worked a full week in his life. The Christian devil, does nothing but punish the evil among us. One is concerned with his own pr and having his are kissed, the other is busy leaving the good be and working on the others.
Its nonsense but tell me this, why is it god the Christians worship rather than Satan? Is it just fear and appeasement?

 

[Weird]

Could I just go back to the original post,
Within the text, this jumped out at me
" Classical geodesics eventually cross each other, and the points at which they converge are singularities. In contrast, Bohmian trajectories never cross each other, so singularities do not appear in the equations."

Observations though don't tally.
http://t.space.com/all/7678-black-hole-closer-earth-thought#2"The researchers determined that the black hole V404 Cygni is located 7,800 light-years from Earth ? or just slightly more than half the distance that was previously assumed.

That puts it relatively nearby to Earth, where the distance to the center of the galaxy is about 26,000 light-years, and the nearest star beyond the sun is a mere 4.2 light-years away.

The more accurate distance measurement will enable scientists to paint a better picture of how black holes evolve, the team says."



So is this why its not being talked about?

the innumeracy of incumbent science is ignored because if it were dignified it would be recognized as evolving, a reflection of us not a entity beyond us to be worshiped, no different than religion

some people use it to worship some external thing and others use it to build up the shared humanity with in us all.

The same can be done with science but those type of minds don't frequent here.

Our individual desires direct which course is taken.

Oh and 1 book about the magical Jesus and 7? About the magical harry potter, I do hope we aren't basing reality on whether or not there's a book on it.

your basing your reality in the scientific findings for which you personally dont have the equipment to replicate yourself

thats faith

what are you using it for

personal knowledge

some people prefer to invest their faith in humanity

others can figure out how to play nice with others

Please science guru post the definite information that makes the bible in its entirety untrue because by your use of it that is what science is out to disprove

hasn't happened, wonder why

not that it even matters but boy does it show how your beliefs effect your rational being

 

[armedoldhippy]

OK, I tried to resist.
The Christian god is egotistical and genocidal. He abandoned his own son, and has never worked a full week in his life. The Christian devil, does nothing but punish the evil among us. One is concerned with his own pr and having his are kissed, the other is busy leaving the good be and working on the others.
Its nonsense but tell me this, why is it god the Christians worship rather than Satan? Is it just fear and appeasement?

you should work more on resisting. Satan causes misery regardless of whether you are good or bad, bad things occur to everyone. God gave men free will; if not, you could not have typed what you just did. "it's nonsense..." you are right about that, in my opinion. it is government/evil & unprincipled people that use fear & appeasement. (actually, those three run together pretty regularly...)

 

[Mad Lab]

OK, I tried to resist.
The Christian god is egotistical and genocidal. He abandoned his own son, and has never worked a full week in his life. The Christian devil, does nothing but punish the evil among us. One is concerned with his own pr and having his are kissed, the other is busy leaving the good be and working on the others.
Its nonsense but tell me this, why is it god the Christians worship rather than Satan? Is it just fear and appeasement?

its beyond your understanding at this time in your life.

you need to understand and study the theology you wish to debate.

your questions and statements are very similar to ones i answered in high school, while i wasnt even a christian.

i could answer you, but those answers are in any atheist-theist debate. well not good debates because intelligent atheists know what arguments are even worth mentioning.

no offense, im not belittling you. philosophy classes will help if your interested.



i will tell you this. the judea-christian deity makes the most sense to me because:

If there was an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent creator, logic and morality suggest that they would make their presence and guidance known in a way that was conclusive and indisputable. Just as us good parents do for our young children. Better yet, just biologically instill that knowledge into every sentient creature. Anything short of these things seems ineffective and wasteful at best, and cruel and petty at worst.

Also, buddhism has no authority behind the philosophy, it is just a man and his ideas, which are great ideas, but nothing you can take to the bank. you need to have authority to believe a theology, or it is just what most atheists preach: uneducated/educated ideas, nothing more. no reason for me to believe what they believe, it may not be true, likely not true.

Jesus is slightly different. people say it is easy to do what he did, with such an impact in history. regardless of anyone's claims here, it would not have been easy to do what jesus (or the apostles) did in that era. it hasnt been done before or again. a man claiming to be god.. thats a rough one. but based on what we have today, the test of time, he did the best job at that. i think thats worth noting and considering.

So we have a philosophy that i believe is purely-just, which i can agree to, and we have authority, and somewhat historical evidence for that authority.

 

[Weird]

in a one creator model what is born of god and born of man is one in the same

like Matryoshka dolls

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matryoshka_doll

But asking from a christian perspective? Do you really think that a god who would break his perfect son so the imperfect could choose to know him would keep anyone from his kingdom?

Would he create Buddhists to be in delusion for the benefit of Jew and Gentile?

Which people did he break Christ to condemn?

Proverbs states we should seek wisdom in the world, buddhism contains a wealth.

Every philosophy and religion is interpretation humanity through an different lens

it is judgmental (a biblical no no) to condemn a people based on belief.

In the bible Christ condemned no individual just mantras, individuals he treated with love that manifested into miracles.

Condemning other religions and not seeing gods divine hand in the matter is the last refuge of the devil imho

Like everyone here I know your heart is in the right place but I don't rally against any one facet of humanity

maybe i just like game of devils advocate

 

[GMT]

Ah madlab, you haven't been around here long enough to know me yet. I'm not seriously taking part in the argument here, I don't need to. My views are known, I'm just playing devils advocate for amusement.
And thanks, but I did the philosophy thing for a number of years. If you are truly advocating it, then you are already aware the bible is written in the homerian school of writing. You know of the academy and its work, and the date of its closure, and the start of the Roman catholic church. That would be beneath you to go into that. You also know Hercules and Julia's ceasar were also known as the sons of gods. A popular compliment of great men in that era.
I'm puzzled by your assertion that Buddhism has no authority without a fictitious diety though, for me the absence of tooth faries and the like are what gives it its validity. And the fact that there are no internal errors of logic.
So don't worry, I don't feel belittled by you, despite your efforts.

There is also a reason that we don't hear people claiming to be gods demigods or close relations today; psychiatrists.

 

[Weird]

psychology is study of the mind relative to self

religion involves others

sociology would be a better school but still ineffective as it only looks at the aggregate

there is no science that is focused on humanity, consciousness and the consequences there of

religions are an attempt to bring light to that

but if you want to way philosophical about the same in terms scientific I would love to hear your thoughts on it

 

[DrFever]

that today's human gene pool is stalled. The weak and the stupid reproduce just as much as everybody else -- if not more so. The human gene pool is actually devolving, they say, and the only way to bring it back to a point where we have a species capable of reaching for the stars is to eliminate those who aren't smart enough to deserve a spot in the human gene pool.
Could religion fit in here ???
From one point of view, this analysis may actually be correct. It's difficult to see how today's mindless masses of dumbed-down consumers -- steeped in video games, television and junk food -- can offer any meaningful contributions to the future of human civilization. So, from the point of view of the global controllers, "culling the herd" of humanity is actually a good thing. It makes humanity stronger, they say, in much the same way that culling the weaklings from a herd of wild animals improves the aggregate gene pool of the targeted species as a whole.
Adolf Hitler pursued the same philosophy: Improve the human race through genocide. Eliminate the weak, the ugly, the stupid. Fire up the incinerators, disarm the target race to be exterminated, and herd them into gas chambers or open pits.

 

[BlueBlazer]

There are many paths up the mountain, but the view of the moon from the top is the same.

 

[Weird]

We won't improve the race by culling the weak as effectively as we do through hybridization

pure genetic mentality is a self limiting mantra even from a genetic standpoint when put into an evolutionary lens

 

[mojave green]

need i drop the "mormon" bomb in here?