No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[Mad Lab]

to be a Christian is (or used to be) to help those who need it -IE- build schools, dig wells, build roads, help with health issues. if the only reason you go to "help" people is to preach to/at and/or "convert" them, in my opinion, you are wasting your time & theirs. is it ok to you if Muslims come into our poorer communities & "convert" Christians to Islamists? (trick question, LOL!) I read lots of folks arguing against that. no, just "feeding" them does not help. giving them seed that will grow in their soil & use less water is more like it. charity always bites you in the ass, as it build resentment. "do this or that or you're going to hell" not Christian? try telling that to ANY Southern Baptist minister, LOL! talk about narrow-minded...

lol they arnt forcing anyone into christianity. they are simply informing them on the belief and allowing them to choose.

thats like me saying hey armedhippy, i made this pie, heres how i made it, i think you might like it.

and you saying "stop shoving it down my throat! i dont want it!"

and i say," all you had to say was no, you have a choice, we all have a choice right?"



Christians are supposed to help people in need, yes. but to say thats what being a christian was or is is not correct. I think before we judge how christians are preaching over there, perhaps you need to actually see it for yourself before you comment to make a solid statement with validity, no?

Also, your sterotyping. Southern baptist preacher is not me, its not jesus, and that statement the preacher may have made was incorrect and not compatible with jesus' philosophy. only god can condemn a man, not a preacher, me or you.

 

[Weird]

I don't believe it is productive to try and validate our own religious beliefs (or lack thereof) in contrast or in competition with one another.

We can as easily access the humanity between us through the universal self evident truths that exist within us all regardless of the dissimilarities in our beliefs.

This is well within our capacity

 

[Jericho Mile]

Well conversation about quantum equations can only go so far, especially in the IC mag community because i doubt many are into physics, just a few. And even if this was a physicist site, philosophical physics only goes so far as well.

And I personally think its a good thing to have intelligent people from various belief systems contributing to this thread and its topic, whether its a christian, buddhist, atheist or an agnostic.

We are human, and relativity is inevitable. Philosophical science is really a waste of time, but i enjoy it. Philosophy relating to human experience, now that is not a waste of time, it is relevant.

It's a run-around, but as humans we are observers. thats why we likely had so much astrotheology in our early history. we recognize patterns and eventually get lost in a maze of irrelevancy with these patterns - which results in seeing patterns that dont mean anything also.

So observing atheists and theists/deists opinions on certain matters, subconsciencly allows us to recognize patterns and will eventually change our outlook on these different foundations of belief which might aide in future life choices.


Something that i observe is happy old couples and people who are old and likely wise.

All of my atheist professors seemed very grumpy and unhappy at the end of their lives. So far, i personally have not met any happy atheists in their old age, let alone many atheists staying athiest at all in their elderly years.

The couples who are old and holding hands, i always try to find out what wisdom they can provide me to reach such a goal. Most of them are christians. not saying happy old atheist couples dont exist, but how many of you guys have met alot of them?

Also, old men, not just couples, in general believe in god. Yes, likely because they are going to die and are now afraid of what may come, but thats nether here nor there.

I just notice patterns when it comes to belief systems and how many people i see with the life i want to have. never met an atheist that i thought "wow, what an awesome life they have, they have everything figured out, i wanna be like them"


All of these comments have no scientific basis, just my personal observation.

My gosh, dude...observe and believe whatever you want. You can have a degree in world religions or physics or philosophy...or economics......no proof of anything...

it's just a bunch of lost people rolling around grasping at the unknowns and randomness...fearing the concept of infinity or for their immortal souls. actually seems selfish.

If people need to study and follow others...so be it....

but they should understand the reasoning behind their own shortcomings.

I am nothing. nothing at all. good with that...it makes things very simple....worry free...fearless...faithless

Bang or No Bang.....God in the sky or No God....it's meaningless unless one is getting paid or commanding to profess such knowledges. then it becomes lies...and a problem

 

[Weird]

I don't think people really understand the power of belief and the power we have over controlling its focus and its boundaries. Shattered beliefs can result in psychological trauma, but this does not denote a healthy mind.

One should be critical of their own beliefs,and cognitive of their effects on others.

Santa Claus is a great example.

It is a belief system that has positive facets, ones that can help enrich humanity (spirit of selfless giving), regardless of its lack of verity.

As adults do we chide our children because of their blossoming belief because it is rooted in fantasy? or do we embrace the developing person we once were and guide them through the experience as we understood it?

In this context maybe people can see that our understanding of humanity is distilled from many experiences and examples, and that they need not be identical to achieve a similar result.

 

[armedoldhippy]

lol they arnt forcing anyone into christianity. they are simply informing them on the belief and allowing them to choose.

thats like me saying hey armedhippy, i made this pie, heres how i made it, i think you might like it.

and you saying "stop shoving it down my throat! i dont want it!"

and i say," all you had to say was no, you have a choice, we all have a choice right?"



Christians are supposed to help people in need, yes. but to say thats what being a christian was or is is not correct. I think before we judge how christians are preaching over there, perhaps you need to actually see it for yourself before you comment to make a solid statement with validity, no?

Also, your sterotyping. Southern baptist preacher is not me, its not jesus, and that statement the preacher may have made was incorrect and not compatible with jesus' philosophy. only god can condemn a man, not a preacher, me or you.

never said they forced anyone, you misunderstand/misrepresent. sorry, but it IS Christian to help people, and with no expectation of conversion in return. a coerced conversion is as invalid as a coerced confession. if the Christians that go over would help people instead of hunting converts, they would be better received. lots of homeless in this country will not go to missions etc because they already have a belief system and would rather go hungry than be harangued about their perceived "sins". and the poor souls at the missions wonder why they won't come in. maybe they have already FOUND God, just not in the manner the "ministers" wanted... I'm not stereotyping Southern Baptists either; when the shoes fit, put them on & wear them home. or are you saying Baptists are not Christians? I've heard it put something like that before, LOL!

 

[Jericho Mile]

I don't believe it is productive to try and validate our own religious beliefs (or lack thereof) in contrast or in competition with one another.

We can as easily access the humanity between us through the universal self evident truths that exist within us all regardless of the dissimilarities in our beliefs.

This is well within our capacity

apparently not. I'd not grow old waiting for that moment of enlightenment. sounds great on paper.

still missing what No Big Bang has to do with religious beliefs

you know...fuck it...I see where this will continue to go. same same...just a different forum...pipe dreaming and faith. whooooosh

 

[siftedunity]

well it has a lot to do with religion because many think that the big bang was initiated by god.
even though that train of thought is contradictory anyway.

 

[Mad Lab]

just watched interstellar.

felt appropriate to mention on this thread.

anyone enjoy it?

 

[BlueBlazer]

I agree with Weird, [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"We can as easily access the humanity between us through the universal self evident truths that exist within us all regardless of the dissimilarities in our beliefs.

This is well within our capacity[/FONT]"

As a preacher's kid, I was raised from birth in the Christian church. My dad was a Protestant Chaplain and after he retired, a Presbyterian Reverend. I can honestly say that from childhood on I believed, but I had questions. Hard questions apparently, because I got in trouble in Sunday School, Bible School, etc for asking what I thought were legitimate questions.

Fortunately for me, my dad was amazingly open minded, though he believed what he preached and he always walked the walk. He did his best to answer my questions, and never saw it as a challenge to his faith.

When I was old enough, I read the entire bible on my own hook. After reading the whole thing, I began to have serious doubts about it's validity. I was never taught that everything in the bible is literal, but I just couldn't reconcile the god of the old testament with the gentler teachings of Jesus.

Not surprisingly, most of the pushy Christians I have encountered have never actually read the entire bible. They are fast with a quote, but have never bothered to get the entire context. However, I will also say that I have met and worked side by side with some of the most well read Christians that were not pushy. Unfortunately, like in anything the bad apples spoil it for the rest. They are the reason folks knee jerk to an admission of belief.

I voiced these opinions to my dad, and he actually encouraged me to study other religions. He even suggested books and when I would discuss what I was learning, he offered insights that revealed that he knew the subject himself.

Not your garden variety preacher man, he allowed me the freedom to truly choose my own beliefs. For that, I love him and miss being able to bounce ideas off him.

I understood science in high school and college, but found it profoundly boring. When I god older, I became more interested in science and have probably learned enough to be dangerous. I am always encouraged by what were are capable of, like our exploration of space and what we've been able to learn about how this universe works. I love science shows and documentaries.

But I also love philosophy (especially when high).

I finally decided that if there was a god, it's not the god of religion. I believe (except in the case of mental illness) that all humans know right and wrong, just from how it feels regardless of intention. I believe that there is a force that binds the entire universe and even perhaps somehow precipitated it. Call it god if you will, in my belief it doesn't really matter because this force in non personal in the way most religions portray. We are all a part of that force, everything is. What we are is not the meat suits we inhabit. We are the universe experiencing itself.

 

[Weird]

apparently not. I'd not grow old waiting for that moment of enlightenment. sounds great on paper.

still missing what No Big Bang has to do with religious beliefs

you know...fuck it...I see where this will continue to go. same same...just a different forum...pipe dreaming and faith. whooooosh

The reason the lines are blurred is because peoples beliefs are programmed by all the information they take in, and the influence of others.

Most cannot make reasonable sense of religion because they lack the cognitive capacity and DESIRE to understand it.

It is easier to let someone else do the work, especially if a person isn't capable of doing it on their own.

Many people do find a level of "understanding" but often it only resonates with them, its not something they can share readily or get others to understand.

This is not a universal understanding or self truth, self evident yes, universal it is not.

Religions can be relative in this manner, having a good and even necessary place in a certain time and place, but lose meaning in another.

Interestingly enough religions evolve as time evolves as do beliefs.

This process occurs in each of us over our lifetimes yet most of us will never look at these facts or attempt to recognize them.

Opening the upper dimensions of our own humanity requires above all else desire because the gate keeper between it and the lower dimensions of our humanity is our own self will.

The war between good and evil, the devil and god, between Zion and Babylon is fought in our head and won by our actions.

The war is waged every day in every one of us at all times.

Most people want a world that fulfills their desires regardless of causation because they never develop past the stage of self satisfaction.

 

[Weird]

I personally believe that reading the old and new sequentially testament is counter productive to understanding Christianity.

Now let me preface this by saying understanding does not always equal belief and belief does not necessarily equate to understanding.

Religion is belief in the supernatural and the supernatural will always exist.

Don't inflate the concept of the supernatural beyond the notion that there will always something unknown to mankind in its current time and space place. Now we understand it as natural.

The power beyond thunder and lightening was supernatural to primitive man but not to us in this place in time and space.

Did understanding it from a supernatural or natural still allow us to work within the same framework of reality regardless?

 

[RetroGrow]

forcing children to worship is not good in my book.

But continuously preaching your version of mysticism is?

but also, the catholics are not true followers of christs philosophy. they add many scriptures that were not approved by the orthodox-christians that were the true followers of jesus 200 yrs after his death when Constantine put the bible together.

That's rich. So Catholics (my ancestors are all Catholic) are the bad Christians, and your denomination represent the good, "true" Christians? Unapproved scriptures? Who's doing the "approving" here? You or Jesus? Or are you consulting with "him"?

So the evil Roman army that just got through with their conquests with Cesar not long before, now became the roman catholic church. but really it was just the roman army in disguse, executing the crusades in the name of god, so the people didnt rebel, because they were now very strong willed christians that now believed christs advice on killing for the wrong reasons. god was the only good excuse the romans could use to do what they wanted.

Now, you're re-writing history. Funny!

Catholics sponsor the bibles but contradict the message of jesus. again, thats why you see priests in silk robes and gold when jesus preached against that... he even preached in a potato sack basically... so if he wasnt good enough for gold and silk, priests who require it... come on.

But your evangelical Christians are O.K. with their mansions, fancy cars, multimillion dollar dog and pony shows on T.V. that are nothing but cons, raking millions in for them. Huckster/preachers. That's what Jesus wanted.

The bible warns of the catholic church and the likes of, mormons etc. they take the orginal word and pervert it

Is that right? So, again, Catholics are the bad Christians, and your denomination represent the "good" Christians? And of course, you are privy to the "original" word of the imaginary deity, and the rest of us are just out of the loop. I wouldn't have believed you could come up with something so absurd if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. But then, you communicate directly with the deity, and "he" still hasn't contacted me.
I also can't help but notice that you seem to be obsessed with me. The only person you have mentioned more than me is Jesus. Yet, I have never mentioned your name a single time. It's personal for you. Typical of the narrow minded, judgmental types when they get defensive, and are unable to defend their superstition, or as you would refer to it: "faith".
Mind boggling!!!!

 

[RetroGrow]

Most cannot make reasonable sense of religion because they lack the cognitive capacity and DESIRE to understand it.

Most people want a world that fulfills their desires regardless of causation because they never develop past the stage of self satisfaction.

You make some good points, but I don't see how you can be so confident in what "most" people think.

 

[Jericho Mile]

The reason the lines are blurred is because peoples beliefs are programmed by all the information they take in, and the influence of others.

Most cannot make reasonable sense of religion because they lack the cognitive capacity and DESIRE to understand it.

It is easier to let someone else do the work, especially if a person isn't capable of doing it on their own.

Many people do find a level of "understanding" but often it only resonates with them, its not something they can share readily or get others to understand.

This is not a universal understanding or self truth, self evident yes, universal it is not.

Religions can be relative in this manner, having a good and even necessary place in a certain time and place, but lose meaning in another.

Interestingly enough religions evolve as time evolves as do beliefs.

This process occurs in each of us over our lifetimes yet most of us will never look at these facts or attempt to recognize them.

Opening the upper dimensions of our own humanity requires above all else desire because the gate keeper between it and the lower dimensions of our humanity is our own self will.

The war between good and evil, the devil and god, between Zion and Babylon is fought in our head and won by our actions.

The war is waged every day in every one of us at all times.

Most people want a world that fulfills their desires regardless of causation because they never develop past the stage of self satisfaction.

You know bro....like I said: sounds good on paper. "Opening the upper dimensions of our own humanity" fuck humanity. what has humanity done for any greater good of anything? not a thing...we are nothing unless we are a plague of arrogance. less than shit flinging monkeys....way less. this is now....life is now...evolvement into some glowing beings is not us. never will be. we are mean fucking beasts...born of the muck...with a very small % meek enough to not face up to that reality...and an even smaller % believing themselves above it. Humanity is a silly concept....made up by silly people

....deep in a stoner bro forum. I could understand it...if I was 20 and back in university....eating a pizza and contemplating a blow job. It is what it is...the entertainment factor dwindling. I was really hoping for hell fire or high handed put downs.

religion disgusts me....and I'm pretty sure mathematicians and physicist are unable to cope without theory.

 

[bombadil.360]

Good day Weird,

Not sure I can agree with your assessment of how extremists come into being... Sufism is not for the rich for example, in fact, quite the opposite, and poverty is not a barrier for them to study deeply their religion and its philosophy...on the other hand, you have extremely wealthy individuals who could have used their money to better their religious educations, but instead end up blowing themselves up.

It is naive and dangerous to excuse and justify the extremists by using the scape-goat of "the gringos, masons, illuminaty, Jews, the devil made me do it"

There's no hidden force and agenda of super intelligent group of people who are able to manipulate so many millions of free wills to force them to dance to their tunes... It takes two to tango, and believing otherwise is a clear symptom of a perception being distorted by paranoia and delusions.

Each individual is responsible for his actions, "they made me do it" is not a valid defense, just ask the convicted low level nazi soldiers how did that defense worked for them.

Peace

 

[bombadil.360]

Jericho. I hate to admit it, but I agree with you... Man simply a beast, imo, calling ourselves animals is an insult to animals, hence why beasts is a better term, maybe even monsters

We strongly tend to take something good and corrupt it until it becomes unrecognizable, whether it be science or religion, a simple green herb or even a friendship.

When my friends tell me of the coming of the messiah, I can't help but laugh and wonder if there were a messiah and he were to come now, he'd wipe us all out...

But we will do that anyway without a messiah though, only a matter of time...

Peace!

 

[Mad Lab]

But continuously preaching your version of mysticism is?



That's rich. So Catholics (my ancestors are all Catholic) are the bad Christians, and your denomination represent the good, "true" Christians? Unapproved scriptures? Who's doing the "approving" here? You or Jesus? Or are you consulting with "him"?



Now, you're re-writing history. Funny!

Catholics sponsor the bibles but contradict the message of jesus. again, thats why you see priests in silk robes and gold when jesus preached against that... he even preached in a potato sack basically... so if he wasnt good enough for gold and silk, priests who require it... come on.

But your evangelical Christians are O.K. with their mansions, fancy cars, multimillion dollar dog and pony shows on T.V. that are nothing but cons, raking millions in for them. Huckster/preachers. That's what Jesus wanted.

The bible warns of the catholic church and the likes of, mormons etc. they take the orginal word and pervert it

Is that right? So, again, Catholics are the bad Christians, and your denomination represent the "good" Christians? And of course, you are privy to the "original" word of the imaginary deity, and the rest of us are just out of the loop. I wouldn't have believed you could come up with something so absurd if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. But then, you communicate directly with the deity, and "he" still hasn't contacted me.
I also can't help but notice that you seem to be obsessed with me. The only person you have mentioned more than me is Jesus. Yet, I have never mentioned your name a single time. It's personal for you. Typical of the narrow minded, judgmental types when they get defensive, and are unable to defend their superstition, or as you would refer to it: "faith".
Mind boggling!!!!

you grouping christians.. thats not logical. they are seperate belief systems. you speak of the catholics, i tell you im not a catholic. thats like saying islam and and hindu are the same religion.

when you take a theology and change it, and call it something else, its not the same thing.

to break it down to you in a few sentences, catholics and mormons and other 'works' related beliefs have a different equation:

catholics:

Faith + Works = Justification

protestant christians:

Faith + Justification = Works

i dont expect you to understand the difference. you are just attacking me like an asshole.

weirds opinion has as much to do with a 'god'. any atheist debater could not agree to one thing he said, without admitting to a belief in a god.

so whats your deal? ether your an atheist or not. you already told us anyone who believes there is anything more than infinite is stupid and has no brain, so why attack christianity so much? people in here have 'preached' there life philosophy, dont see you getting all hopped up.. afraid to speak up?

 

[DrFever]

Mad WTF are you exactly ???
Catholicism is a denomination, and is, therefore, a subset of Christianity. All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics. A Christian refers to a follower of Jesus Christ who may be a Catholic, Protestant, Gnostic, Mormon, Evangelical, Anglican or Orthodox, or follower of another branch of the religion.

Its pretty much same fucking thing don;t you think ?? See this is typical BS
the founder is who Jesus Christ hahaha daa fucking ass wipe
or is it the lord Jesus Christ da fucking Douche bag ??? ?
what i can gather from all of this idiotic ideology Roman Catholics are by doctrine non-Christian
But here i will tell you the truth why your faith is sinking like the titanic it really is ,,,
One word Muslim

 

[genedigger]

narrow and cramped is the road leading to life and few are the ones finding it.jesus said this to his apostles.
dosent sound like every christian religion is right according to jesus

 

[armedoldhippy]

narrow and cramped is the road leading to life and few are the ones finding it.jesus said this to his apostles.
dosent sound like every christian religion is right according to jesus

NO religion is exactly right. anything made by man will have faults even though every religion claims to be "inspired by God." all inspirations are interpretations, and lots of things get lost in interpretation/translation. even a perfect concept on paper will get fucked up out in the field, because people...well, they fuck up, LOL! they are human...