No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[bombadil.360]

Mad, I can't quote posts now as I'm on a phone and it is a pita to do so...

But you have stated at least a couple of times that you have came to your religious beliefs after much studying of many topics, including science. At the same time you have also quoted from religious texts to support your argument.

Don't get me wrong, I do not care what your beliefs are, you are free to have them, in fact, I can only post from my phone as I'm in northern Israel for the second time for reserve duty in the last three months, on the final frontier of the free world vs. the absolute authoritarian theocratic bullshit ideologies... We fight, and you guys can still be atheists, agnostics, Christians or whatever the heck you want, just don't try to impose your value system on anyone by force and all is good.

Having said that, I've been neglecting my post lol

Peace

 

[Mad Lab]

Mad, I can't quote posts now as I'm on a phone and it is a pita to do so...

But you have stated at least a couple of times that you have came to your religious beliefs after much studying of many topics, including science. At the same time you have also quoted from religious texts to support your argument.

Don't get me wrong, I do not care what your beliefs are, you are free to have them, in fact, I can only post from my phone as I'm in northern Israel for the second time for reserve duty in the last three months, on the final frontier of the free world vs. the absolute authoritarian theocratic bullshit ideologies... We fight, and you guys can still be atheists, agnostics, Christians or whatever the heck you want, just don't try to impose your value system on anyone by force and all is good.

Having said that, I've been neglecting my post lol

Peace

some people just cant help it can they.

i never said science justified my belief in god. i said i studied many things including science, and i came to the belief of Christianity being the most logical choice.

if you notice any 'preaching' that came from me, it was toward gentlemen that spit out misinformation about my belief and also telling me what i believe, when i never said such things. telling me a catholic is this and that and i am the same? totally different belief system than protestant. apples and oranges, like science and spirituality. although, does that mean we dismiss them both?

before that, i just made comments about god in relation to creation. they just targeted me (because they must always need to prove to a theist they are wrong) and my beliefs, made assumptions, and i corrected them.

i didnt come in here to attack atheists. and you clearly know what i am saying but still misquote to serve your purpose that i am wrong and you know it. seems your beliefs wont allow you to hear another opinion without making an attempt to tear it down.

did i come in here to tear people down? nope, im not hear saying this quantum equation is CRAZY and the DEVIL.

but i will tell you that when we discuss an agent setting our laws in motion verses no agent and slut magic with possibility of infinite, God pops up, sorry to disturb you.

but i never preached until people needed to be set straight on the nonsense they post. if you wanna debate christianity, sure, but you might need to study it to even disagree with it and debate. its silly... its like me objection to physics when if i never studied it... silly willy


btw, i hope you make it home to your family safely. regardless of the fact it means nothing to you, i will pray for you.
regardless of what our purpose is truly in the middle east, i think that there must be much good in saving non-violent people of an area from 'evil' idealogies that are attempting to take their freedoms and lives away.

 

[genedigger]

our brains must have evolved to the point that we are able to ponder our existence,and were we came from.this must be some sort of natural selection.maybe the people who dont ponder evolution and are stuck on god will get eaten by the evolutionists.

ive never called anyone a name on this thread.i simply abhor evolution mostly because it doesnt help humans live better together.the way evolutionists and religious folks argue about there beliefs screams that evolution is a religion in of itself.to believe in evolution is to hold your own human vessel up high almost god like.to believe that you evolved more than other life forms on earth is to pay yourself reverence and worship.it is not humble.it puts man at the top of all life forms and i dont see how that is not dangerous.i respect all of your beliefs if they can help you be a better person and care about the world.

 

[genedigger]

he stretches out the northern sky over empty space,suspending the earth upon nothing.job26:7
there is one who dwells above the circle of the earth,and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
he is stretching out the heavans like a fine guaze.he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
isaiah40:22

 

[genedigger]

the bible is full of advice about diseases and getting rid of poop too.

 

[bombadil.360]

Mad, like I said, I have no interest in anyones' beliefs as far as the subject of this thread is concerned.

My small beef with some of the opinions expressed here, and I have already clearly stated why these opinions err, and it boils down to the making of categorical errors, not only from you but also from others.

This is a very common phenomena when science and religion become intermingled in a discussion.

If we could freely discuss religion exclusively in the forums, I'd be more willing to share my opinions, but it is not allowed, and for good reasons, afterall, we are here to learn about the nice herb.

Be good,

Peace

 

[BrainSellz]

The Stoned Ape Theory is a good one. Seems it's all just MIND anyway. The mind always has been and always will be. Mushrooms are a good resource for maneuvering through consciousness and obtaining great wisdoms and knowlrdge on a higher plane. This problem solving conciousness they try to keep us trapped in is nuts. The scientists need to "explore" their own conciousness. Dennis McKenna certainly did and he has found very profound things in his studies that other scientists speak on but lack experience of.

 

[Weird]

I will offer a money reward to anyone that can qualify and quantify religion is the big catalyst to war and death.

Please show us the recorded mortality rates based on religious wars and compare them to death rates of modern wars. Statistically we are living in the most peaceful times known to man.

But please do your historical research and do body counts based on the great wars recorded to mankind and tell me how many deaths are attributed to religion. Then tell me how many wars were waged for resource, land and greed.

There are many more deaths attributed to the genocide of religious people then there are deaths from wars created due to religion. They are both in process and incomplete requiring faith to bring fruition to observation.

Were the Nazi's doing God's work or was it part of another agenda? Genghis Khan? Alexander the Great? How about the civil wars? or world wars? Taiping rebellion?

Only a really closed and shallow mind judges person by what they believe opposed to how that belief causes them to interact with humanity. As with physics it is not the value of independent inputs of a equation but the resulting product of the equation that proves merit.

The big bang doesn't describe the origin of the universe or what lay before or beyond it but simply observes the state of changing mass, a change in state, not anything outside of it.

The best part of all of this though is that people would try to understand humanity through the scientific measure of mass and energy. Using it as a measure of practices that foster humanity is like using a yardstick to measure lumens.

Claiming science as a belief system is no different than claiming religion as a belief system.

I will tell you this, that over the decades of being in the game I have met people from every walk of life and who represent every facet of religion and belief system.

The only differences between us are the ones we choose to dignify same as our likenesses, and that extends to our creations, from science to religion.

So in summary I find people who use excuses to condemn belief are projecting their own perception, which they have focused on the difference between us, not the likeness we share in humanity. They only see the unsavory as this is the same pattern of their subconscious though projected on those they know from assumption and stereotype.

Carl Jung identified this perception as being prevalent in adolescence, where focus on the dissimilar to create a unique identity and then in later adolescence reconnect with society having established a level of unique persona.

People who embrace the mantra of science who say there is no meaning to life are marginalizing themselves and others as a result of a belief and doing it at the expense of humanity itself. Best part is if you ask them to actualize their bias with science, they won't be able to.

 

[genedigger]

weird.weird speech to follow.are you saying more people have died because of religion and not land, power, or money?or the opposite?6 million jews died in the 2nd world war.where they killed over there faith or were they simply persecuted and put to death because of bigotry and hate for a certain ethnic group?some wars have been blessed by some religions and some religions admonish you to fight,but how many wars have happened directly because of religion.i dont like your faith so im gonna come kill you.i cant think of any. right now the obama administration is going after isis which many are saying is a direct assault on the religion of islam.is it ok when a government attacks a religious group?whats the difference between a governmaent doing it or another religion?

 

[genedigger]

its funny how scared of religion people are but they have no problem putting faith in a government.it seems to be the same thing

 

[Weird]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

do the math

 

[Weird]

holy wars are almost exclusively European and where used as a guise behind the real motivations of those who controlled the cards.

not much different when it comes to the American military complex.

The powerful use propaganda, that is they manipulate mass perception by pandering to the most common belief system.

 

[genedigger]

so hardly any are religious wars according to wiki,but folks still think that war is done in the name of religion.if we have been fighting wars over religion since the beginning of recorded history its hard to see how that fits into evolution.it makes sense if your evolving to fight a war over resources but if your evolving how does it help you survive if you fight over belief? everytime i ponder evolution i get more ? than answers.

 

[bombadil.360]

Hello BrainSellz,

Loving your screen name lol...

You bring my kind of topic to the table: hallucinogenics sometimes when I feel a bit preachy I call them entheogens

Ime, substances like mescaline have given me what I'd like to call epiphanies, but I could not qualify and quantify empirically those metaphysical journeys, for lack of a better term.

Could anyone put under a microscope or look out of a telescope whatever is it that happens to us when we journey into the mysteries of perception? Hence why I think it is an irrational landscape, not any less valid than the rationality of the hard sciences, but merely belonging to another category all together.

Peace!

 

[bombadil.360]

Weird, even though I agree in essence with your posts, I can't help but wonder what are your thoughts on extremist versions of Islam? Are the deaths today in the levant not driven by a plethora of religious motivations?

Do you think the motivating factors of attacks against Jews in today's Europe and lack of tolerance for Israel in general worldwide are motivated by religious dogma?

Peace!

 

[genedigger]

islam doesnt like western values which entails much much more than just religion.

 

[DrFever]

weird.weird speech to follow.are you saying more people have died because of religion and not land, power, or money?or the opposite?6 million jews died in the 2nd world war.where they killed over there faith or were they simply persecuted and put to death because of bigotry and hate for a certain ethnic group?some wars have been blessed by some religions and some religions admonish you to fight,but how many wars have happened directly because of religion.i dont like your faith so im gonna come kill you.i cant think of any. right now the obama administration is going after isis which many are saying is a direct assault on the religion of islam.is it ok when a government attacks a religious group?whats the difference between a governmaent doing it or another religion?

Here just for you take note that Nazi soldiers had engraved on there belt
Whenever I am evangelizing to non-Christians, one objection comes up that seems to be a barrier for them to hearing the Gospel. They seem to think that it’s hypocritical for Christians to talk about the love of Christ when Christians have done so much killing. Some of them even think that Christians are the most murderous of the religions. I figured I should do some research to actually have an answer in apologetics.

Yes, man has used religion for political gain. Nazi Germany had "God with us" engraved in German on the belts of Nazi soldiers. Americans have said, "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."

So, we can all agree that killing in the name of religion isn’t a good thing. And now the obligatory, “Exactly, and Christians have killed more than any other religion.”

Au Contraire!

The main argument blaming those murderous Christians is based on the deaths of those in the Crusades and the Inquisition. I actually added another situation that can be used as well.

Deaths Caused by Christians:

1562-1598 – French Wars of Religion – France – 4 million
1095-1291 – Crusades to the Holy Land – Middle East, Spain, Africa – 1.5 million (This does include all sides of the conflict)
1184-c. 1860 – Various Christian Inquisitions – Europe – 17,500

We’ll round this up (for the sake of liberals) and say 6 million deaths caused by Christians. And that IS a bunch! 6 million is way too many!

 

[BrainSellz]

Hello BrainSellz,

Loving your screen name lol...

You bring my kind of topic to the table: hallucinogenics

Could anyone put under a microscope or look out of a telescope whatever is it that happens to us when we journey into the mysteries of perception? Hence why I think it is an irrational landscape, not any less valid than the rationality of the hard sciences, but merely belonging to another category all together.

Peace!

Thanks bombadil.
That is the beuaty of the mistery of perception and what's out there in the ether.
Not everything should have to be put under a microscope to be understood.
More like, we are the microscope.
I can understand where you are coming from though.

 

[DrFever]

Mad lab i really find it funny when a atheist says prove to me there is god or a Jesus and most Christians, for one i don't need to prove anything You do lol ,,, Do you believe you Jesus had done miracles ???
The miracles that happened in the Bible prove that God exists. Do the miracles that happen in a Harry Potter book prove that, too? Again, we have to refine our argument if we expect non-believers to take us seriously in any way. or how about
Every day, we hear stories about pastors and other religious figures in a scandal of some sort. Infidelity, theft, child molestation, etc…Their belief in God didn’t help them be more moral, did it?
You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. to funny really
Mad Christians = Hypocrite
I bet You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
His killing was a necessary sacrifice in order that we might be forgiven for the sins of Eve, the first woman in the world, who lived 6000 years ago in a magical garden, where a talking snake convinced her to eat a forbidden apple. WTF is that MAD God dam this is stupid you think ???
But to think ??? To show our thanks for this sacrifice, we should put special crackers and wine in our mouths, where they will be magically transformed into his flesh and blood, which we should then swallow despite taboos regarding cannibalism.

You don’t like it? Too fucking bad. Your acceptance of your beliefs means that you are being retarded, and there’s no way around it.

 

[Weird]

Weird, even though I agree in essence with your posts, I can't help but wonder what are your thoughts on extremist versions of Islam? Are the deaths today in the levant not driven by a plethora of religious motivations?

Do you think the motivating factors of attacks against Jews in today's Europe and lack of tolerance for Israel in general worldwide are motivated by religious dogma?

Peace!

I think the motivating factors are a lack of understanding between religions, an ignorance which is fostered by multiple factors.

While extremists are iconoclast, I think their extremism is being "nurtured" under the table by foreign interests.

Terrorism can also be a tool of propaganda, as is the sensationalism of terrorism. I am willing to bet the American military complex sees it as a income stream.

Do you think the wars in the middle east were motivated by religion? or resource?

So is it religion itself or people using religious difference as justification to marginalize the people for the purpose of taking their resources?

Do you think for example the American administration is involved are really in it for religious reasons?

Religious difference of the same sort causes us no issues with countries we are aligned with but it does cause difference for those who oppose us or posses something we want or desire.

Religion like science is man's observation of something else, this does not imply man is always correct in his application or observation nor does it dismiss what was being observed in the first place although it might observe it inaccurately and make bad decisions based on those observations.

Many Jews that claim themselves to be religious but have no real belief, they are conforming to a community standard. There are also Israelis who enjoy Palestinian lands taken by "religious right" yet do not believe in God.

Religion being used inappropriately is to be expected and even religious tomes themselves warn of this phenomenon.

This is because many religions do understand the tenants of our like human nature as it is the undeniable likeness that inspires the notion we are so similar we are created from the same "stock" so to speak.

Once again what religion was developed to achieve and how humans use it are not always congruent.