No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[Weird]

sigh

the reason I used the computer robot analogy was to illustrate that the vessel we are in possession of biases the world around us

simple examples

when most people read the bible (no pictures) and envision a creator they envision a person who looks like themselves

when mankind looks at life around him he looks to biological life as found in nature

YET we have created life using metal and electric which is on the cusp of being intelligent and self sustaining (AI driven robot running on solar)

a true statement is this

that we are a product of the universe we are a part of

if you use this lens with today's technology, religious texts are basically saying the same thing

Another way one might interpret being made in God's image using this lens is that we possess the capacity to have consciousness and understand the world around us and replicate it, that this image is not one that we see with our optical lobes but part of the fabric of our being, the highest potential.

the point is this

all beliefs are born from teaching or observation, they are not mutually exclusive but all give us insight to the universe we all share

we choose where we get to focus our beliefs, which due to the nature of our being comes back to our individual experience in this time and space place.

this is the bias that keeps us from seeing life outside of our own being and is the curse that keeps mankind from achieving its highest potential

living in synergistic harmony based on symbiotic relationships opposed to a predatory society that bases itself on parasidic relationships.

narcissism versus altruism, simple potentials in us all.

we are phenotypes of the same strain of humanity, even genetically

 

[Weird]

http://phys.org/news196441618.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/science/22brain.html?_r=0

Did Michelangelo Include a Brain Stem in the Sistine Chapel?

are science and religion mutually exclusive?

could the vehicle that people have use to see and understand the esoteric been the similar all along?

are we seeing the same things but translated differently by our own place in time and space?

 

[Payaso]

Sigh indeed.

I love this thread, I hate this thread.

Funny how religion and politics arouse such passion!

Thought about deleting a bunch of off-topic posts...but that is so time-consuming.

I see a thread devolving into chaos when the barbs getting tossed include criticisms of grammar and spelling. How sad. And then accusations of stupidity and ignorance soon filling the spaces, leading to the inevitable comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis...

How boring.

But this place exists as a place to communicate... so that's what is going on.

Hopefully in peace.

 

[HUGE]

Well said. Thrice great .

tesla and newton studied hermetics to build a scientific understanding of the world.

science was born from philosophy and religion, and not having a historical understanding of how they evolved is unacceptable if you are going to pretend to represent science.

mutation and creation can be interchanged depending on vernacular.

algorithmic fractal equations drive AI, the analogies I reference are real.

it is not religion or science I reference but the underlying universe they both look at, not being able to reconcile both shows you have a irrational emotional bias.

you want to make it a discussion of science use science to prove I am wrong.

tell me how did you come into existence?

your moms and dads energies were the same to begin with split in eons past and rejoined in this moment of time?

are we only one singular energy or are we a biological machine that interacts with many energies?

Is using a physics model for base energy incompatible when using it to understand complex life forms?

What has science said about the conglomeration and merging of energies to make something more complex, something that is composed of various energies, matter and even other life forms?

What drives this?

the first law of physics?

energy isn't created or destroyed? but what about when the commingle and become something more complex?

you realize that you are spouting shallow spoon fed arguments by prop scientists that use apples comparisons to judge oranges and criss angel small intellects into thinking they are on to something.

Dawkins claims because DNA structure is the same evolution has no direction yet the forms created by DNA most certainly follow models of every increasing diversity. People who ignore the later prove they simply want confirmation of a belief they hold true and wish to actualize for conscious sake.

Science doesn't know what YOUR claiming it does, it simply confounds those with preconceived notions.

fwiw girls and boys this injun worked with 0 and 1s for many many decades, delusion gets you know where with computers and logic systems. My mind is very sound and very scientific.

I use allegory and esoteric reference to gently open the minds of people the real reality of our existence that lies beyond most peoples perceptions.

its like people using science to grow and breed and then getting substandard or unpredictable results or better yet lacking in a capacity to qualify or quantify their works.

In my profession that would never get you paid.

EVER

I also think that if you need science to help you understand the nature of something around you, you are out of touch with nature itself, and lack the capacity of natural observation.

Deists, Hermeticism, Buddhism as well as a plethora of other religions were born from observation of the natural world.

Science does the same thing, quantifying and qualifying from a different perspective.

I asked open ended questions as I started the thread to open minds to the fallible and evolving nature of science, a pattern you will see exists elsewhere including man.

Keep looking for others to tell you about the world around you

Telling me to keep mu comments elsewhere won't work but it will evoke my ire and I give it better then most.

keep that in mind

 

[genedigger]

western society consumes to much processed and refined food[starches sugars]to have a pineal gland that works well enough to understand spirituality.these refined foods started around the same time spirituality wore off in the western world.scientific study can still happen with a calcified pineal gland,but spirituality have fun trying to understand the world when your brain food was purchased at a fastfood stop and even the supermarket.just eating organic isnt the answer either.the silver lining is fish which is the most warned against meat and the most expensive can decalcify your pineal gland over time.

 

[RetroGrow]

If anyone who has been following this thread, wants to watch some really cool, and deep stuff. Go on Netflix and watch "Cosmos". It blew my mind, and I'm not even done with the series.

Love "Cosmos", both the "old" Cosmos, with Carl Sagan, and the newer version, with Neil deGrasse Tyson. Both of them were/are atheists, and would laugh at some of the creationist ramblings espoused by some in this thread. What we understand about the universe(s) pales in comparison to what we don't understand. This does not mean that there is a reclusive deity responsible for what we do not yet understand. We are unlocking the secrets, but it is a tedious and very long journey, not to be solved in our or anyone's lifetime. That is part of the beauty of science. It is handed down trough the generations, to be examined and expanded upon by succeeding generations. The mysteries will not be solved in our lifetimes, but the journey is fascinating. We have come a long way from "the earth is flat" days, no thanks to and in spite of religious fervor. Even today, in the news, there was a story about a Saudi cleric who claims that the Earth does not rotate, and that the Sun orbits the Earth. It really helps to illustrate the conflict between science and religion. One is based on observation, study, experimentation, and the other is based on superstition.
Here is the link to the cleric lecturing his students. Those poor students! They will grow up not only believing his nonsense, but willing to kill you for it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ric-tells-students-Earth-does-not-rotate.html

This is pretty hilarious, and yet he is dead serious, proving once more that religious dogma is the root of all ignorance.
By the way, I want to make it perfectly clear that there is a huge difference between spirituality and religiosity.
I have always been a "spiritual" person, just not religious, although as a child, I, as most, believed in what was taught to me, just as a young Muslim child believes what he is taught by some fanatic.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Just catching up on this thread this morning. Wow. Some really good posts both pro and con. Enjoyed a bunch of laughs and deep thoughts.

I have to say that I am skeptical of this new theory. Why?

If it were true, there would be no Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

"laughs and deep thoughts" exactly what intelligent discourse is supposed to provoke. no restaurant? damn, I was hoping for some Krystles when I get there....

 

[waveguide]

this is the thing. "religions" depicted with the same broad brush are often expressions of rationale, or reasoning. if science were a product of reasoning, i wouldn't have to explain epistemology every time i post, or that the hokey pony show "faith" cosmologies in the west actually do differ from others.

like jainism.. world's oldest recorded belief system.. *still* the 8th most populous... strongly opposes consumerism, therefore it is an *unknown* idea in the united states.

jainism? you mean like, mary jane?

and if an american did start to learn about jainism, they would quickly find excuses to depreciate what they gather to make it unworthy of more thorough consideration. it's just some backwater shit, if it were anything awesome it would be the usa #1, but fuck i've never heard of that dumb shit.

 

[Midwest sticky]

Easy on the us bashing.
Blue blazer, whatya mean there's no restaurant at the end of the universe? that's a long trip and I got the munchies I'm not sure I wanna go anymore.

 

[armedoldhippy]

can decalcify your pineal gland over time.

sorry for the side trip, but... does anyone remember the Doonesbury cartoon where Zonker asks Duke what drug he is taking ? "Duke-"something made from the pineal gland of male adolescent iguanas" Zonker-"whatever happened to pot?" Duke-"beats me, I can't even get arrested for it anymore..."

 

[BlueBlazer]

Blue blazer, whatya mean there's no restaurant at the end of the universe? that's a long trip and I got the munchies I'm not sure I wanna go anymore.

See if you can get the ship to make you a nice cup of tea . . .

. . . on second thought . . .

 

[Midwest sticky]

That was a good movie.

 

[BlueBlazer]

"laughs and deep thoughts" exactly what intelligent discourse is supposed to provoke. no restaurant? damn, I was hoping for some Krystles when I get there....

I was looking forward to some Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters.

 

[BlueBlazer]

That was a good movie.

I know it sounds trite, but the books really are better.

Highest recommendations. Hard to dance to, but I give them a 10.

 

[RetroGrow]

I posted this to illustrate the stock put in the surety of science doesn't always pay dividends.

Science, religion are no different than government in that it is created for one purpose (positive) and corrupted to serve another purpose (negative).

They are like fire, they destroy because one of us wills it to be and it can serve us under the same context.

These institutions are man's creation and thus are reflections of man himself.

The analog of creation is all around us, everywhere you look, at every level of existence.

I wonder, when a computers have artificial intelligence and make robots, do the computers look to the world of metal and electronics and think they are the only life in that known world?

Or are they part of a chain of creation that takes many forms from natural earthly biological forms to electronic ones made of metal to chemical ones or even astral ones such as the solar system itself.

Could the lens people use to read ancient texts keep them from seeing what plainly exists all around us?

Could these questions have been answered in antiquity and be known to exist but people today have lost the capacity to find them?

Could our universe and all within be driven by fractal algorithms and could life be composed in ways we never conceived?

Is the universe itself alive?

If it is, did it create us?

Could I be high and rambling?

Can I go one like this for hours?

Is this why I try not to talk too much at parties?

I respect your beliefs and input. Where I have a problem is when you reference "creation", as this term is meaningless to me. I do not believe in "creation", yet you speak about it as though it were a "given". To me it has no meaning, as my belief is that the universe is infinite, and possibly the number of universes is infinite. It isn't necessary, through my "lens" to have a "creator", or a "beginning/end" scenario. It exists, and always has, again, through "my lens", which is subject to the same possibility of distortion as anyone else's.
Please explain, if you can, exactly what you mean by "creation", without referencing a deity. I mention the "deity" part only because that is the traditional response to explain that which we don't understand, by those who don't understand it, ie., "we don't understand the complexities of the universe, ergo, there must be a deity responsible".

 

[Midwest sticky]

I know it sounds trite, but the books really are better.

Highest recommendations. Hard to dance to, but I give them a 10.

A lot of time books are better than the movies... But I really want to see this again so off I go.

 

[mr.brunch]

The old tv series was good n all.... Bit dated now tho I suppose

 

[siftedunity]

amazing how far science has come, and like everything in life is constantly evolving. I dont think we will ever have a definitive answer but we may get close to it.

there are there usual suspects, who literally don't really have the intelligence to understand how import science is to our own evolution and survival. these people cant be helped. same as when you plant seeds and flower the females, you get some great but some duds too.

im quite familiar with the whole anti science crowd and their means of avoiding real questions to actually validate their belief,and the charlatans who go around doing talks and seminars about how the how educated world has ''got it all wrong''..
and try to demonise science because its something they clearly don't understand well enough to comprehend. pure quackery for sure. they all have a messed up and hidden agenda, the ironic thing is they say how a mainstream belief system is dangerous but are trying to create one themselves!

tbh if were all living in that belief system we wouldn't have a laptop/ipad/phone to view this on. nor would there be an internet or any technology. we wouldnt be far off swing in trees so im kinda glad that's the minority.

on the plus side, I love the original article, its great to see some advances in science.

 

[RetroGrow]

science was born from philosophy and religion, and not having a historical understanding of how they evolved is unacceptable if you are going to pretend to represent science.

I don't see how science was born from religion. At least two of the major religions, Christianity and Islam, have traditionally tried to squelch science, and have even punished/executed those who spoke of it. That is my conundrum re: science/religion. I don't include Buddhism in this, as it is a non-theistic "religion", making it more of a philosophy (which I appreciate) than a religion, as I see it. Buddhists aren't "preachy", which I appreciate, unlike the other two religions I referenced. I am quite fascinated by Buddhism. I can relate to it.

tell me how did you come into existence?

If I knew the answer to that question, it would make me......a god? I am not nearly smart enough to answer the questions you pose. Any answer I gave would be pure speculation at best.

Telling me to keep mu comments elsewhere won't work but it will evoke my ire and I give it better then most.

keep that in mind

My comment wasn't directed at you at all! You are not being preachy, nor have you mentioned any particular favorite deity.

 

[Mad Lab]

tbh if were all living in that belief system we wouldn't have a laptop/ipad/phone to view this on. nor would there be an internet or any technology. we wouldnt be far off swing in trees so im kinda glad that's the minority.

there are fools of science and religion. not one more than the other.

science is a blessing, that we can understand so much to the point we can help solve our problems, if you think laptops and ipads are good things, thats kind of funny(to me personally).
i believe more harm than good comes of the technology you speak of. if you dont have 10 year old kids with ipads and the access to the internet, claiming i am a pan-sexual, lol, you may not agree with me. But as much as we could use this technology for good, too many ignorant people abuse it, look at our culture these days, yes our parents said the same thing, but that doesnt mean it doesnt get worse and worse with every generation. where will we end up?

(no, im not referring to my own children)

likely technology advancement will eventually be the demise of the human race, if something else doesnt happen first.

the question is: is technology good for the future of the human race?

my opinion and most scientists: nope