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New extraction technique? Rosin tech?

dabdynasty

New member
Okay so I figured I should share this here since Foundation keeps deleting my posts on IG.

It seems to me that they are just using an Air-Mite Dap 19 press for their prototype. I just grabbed one last week after I did a few days of digging to figure out what pneumatic press they kept showing in their videos.

They are working on self heating plates for their production model but we have seen some people here do that already. So for all you DIY guys and gals or for people that just are inpatient like me you can grab a press now for $300-$900 and be squishing before Foundation has theirs on the market.

I do plan on checking out Foundations press they seem to have put some real thought into their design but I cant stand the shut up and wait game.
 

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for this Roji! Im just catching up today....

Thinking about getting a pneumatic press and just heating some plates like foundation extracts was doing before they got the real deal thing going with APE I believe.

I am all about this shit until I can get my hands on High Purity Hydrocarbons from a trusted certified supplier, I am converted 100% to dabbing this lovely stuff.

:tiphat:


Where the hell did that roji quite come from?????
 

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Self heated plates is an issue at super high pressures and will cost a pretty penny.

Seriously where did that roji quite come from I'm dieing to know?!?!?!
 

blastfrompast

Active member
Veteran
self heated plates are easy...Hire a machinist....:) Build yourself a big Flat iron.. Machinist $100 an hour... Welder $75 an hour. HW = Hardware...flat bar, etc. cheapish.....

Just gotta use ur noodle on how to get the heat where you want it...and keep it there CONSISTANTLY. I went another direction as my wife got pissy I was stealing her Parchment paper....lol

As for production....I've gotten mine down to off the shelf parts...no machining....my wife built one the other day for a friend who made a bunch of shitty green bubble.... Turn $5/g bubble into $30/g rosin...@~40% yield.... So $140(bubble) turns into $330(Rosin 11g)

I plan on releasing the design once the fools start putting out their $1200 models... So many people out to hose the consumer :)

Issue with my design is wastage, it just isn't quite as efficient as hand pressing.....but its Sooo much faster.

As for pressing trim.... I quick press using a double sachel so I don't get all the potential rosin....so if normally I am getting 20% hand pressing with my vice with just parchment....I will get ~15%....so 25% less than if I take my time and pre-press the trim into snakes.... But trim is cheap, and I can move quick double sacheling trim...so production is more amount wise for time spent.
 

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Blast what kind of psi are you working with though?

I have to use 1 in his thick cold rolled, to get that kind of strength in self heated plates would not be easy and I know that was the major issue for ape/aqualabs. Then as you said, making the heat even and consistent is also an issue. Then there the problem with having enough juice to keep the plates heated during presses. As I said a long time ago, they bought a thermal imaging device to try and dial in the heat factor.

My design needs to transfer heat through a small amount of mass, I could see heat loss happening fast, which is another reason I enjoy the inch thick steel.

I have already looked into self heated plates and for my design it's going to up the cost a lot, plus it locks you in to those plates. One of the key concepts I'm working with, would not be able to work if I had fixed plates. I had thought of making a controller box that the plates plug into, similar to an enail so to say, but once again, to guarantee they will withstand the pressure and not fail over years of use will cost some pretty pennies. I like my design because it's extremely simple, it literally can't be any more simple. I want to pass on the savings to others. Trust me, I could not squish a pound of kief at one time with fixed plates. I recently connected with a machinist that just got a laser CnC machine and we have talked about possible future endeavors. The last machinist I talked too had rediculous prices. Can order cast iron heated plates from china but I don't want to sell crap. Not having self heated plates eliminates a lot of possibility for failure. With a smaller press like yours that's probably ok, with plates upwards of 20 or 30 square inches of surface area, I just don't want to risk the possible returns and dealing with it all, I've strive very hard to keep it all as simple as possible.

I don't understand how your getting less return than a hand press. My return on non melt kief went up form 30% on the shirt press (using all my body weight plis the mechanical advantage of the lever system) to 50% at only 1k psi. I will soon play with higher pressures, up to 6 psi to see where the fine line is, if there is even one. I'm still under the impression that too much pressure could be a concept. I've gotten confirmation from two people now that the terpenes molecularly re-arrange with heat and pressure but analytical showed it was a certain few that did that. So idk but sometimes a design is not always about what's most optimal, one also has to consider what's most feasible. I think I'll end up at 2k psi but I'll test it all out from 1k to 6k just to see.

Don't wait until people already get hosed man, then they might not afford to be able to buy yours lol! Plus they will be sad and nobody needs a sad patient. I'm pretty sure the ape press that foundation keeps dangling In front of people's faces is going to start off at around 6k $. But that was before they upgraded to plates of different sizes that can be changed out on the press so idk what the cost will be now and foundation refuses to talk to anyone, even when they are inquiring as to where to buy the tea bags. Ape has lost out on a lot of sales of bags because of that but it's not my problem.

I also accomplished the same with no machining needed, just some simple welding, I decided to go ahead and make a custom frame instead of just selling kits which will up the cost a little but will make the system much smaller and easier to use.

Go on legalzoom. Pay the 14$ or whatever to have them draw you up a custom NDA. Pm me it, I'll sign it and scan it back to you. Then you can share your design free of concern that I'll rip you off, which I would have no intention on doing anyways but it's simply for peace of mind. I really would like to look and possibly help as I have a few key concept I have not shared here. Especially as far and filtering and directional flow is concerned. I'm really baffled how your getting less return, can you up the pressure any way? Do you think your losing the return to the filters? Is the design allowing product to stay behind on the press surfaces? How big can you go with square inches of filter bundle surface area? Am I annoying you yet? Lmao!

Efficiency will be lost at higher production rates. Nothing will ever be as good as "organic hand made in small batches with love." I wouldn't not be concerned about this, it's the first law of alchemy, equivalent exchange. My design probably sacrafices about 5% to the filter and press surface, but oh well. Larger presses actually seem to be more efficient as there is a greater ratio of product material to filter material.

Here's something to consider too. I have noticed that at lower temps and longer presses, the first of the product is more terpy, and the last to come out is less terpy. I have been thinking of a technique to mix it all up really well to have an even spread of terps throughout the product. The tech could also make packaging up grams a lot easier too but will require cold plates (3 dollar home depot marble slabs) and a freezer. If it works I will share it here.

I also need to go back and post the sour diesel presses still, this where I discovered the terpenes part, especially that a second press is way less terpy than the first. I've just been super busy with multiple other projects. I can't wait to actually have some damn time to play with rosin again!
 

EsterEssence

Well-known member
Veteran
Keeping 1 inch thick plates evenly heated is going to be difficult, that is why i was thinking of preheating the thick plates and using thinner stainless slightly larger than the thick plates with heating elements on them, remember i am working vertical to be able to add pressure as the kief pack compresses, and to get the rosin to run from the heat as fast as possible...
 

cyphaman

Member
Okay so I figured I should share this here since Foundation keeps deleting my posts on IG.

It seems to me that they are just using an Air-Mite Dap 19 press for their prototype. I just grabbed one last week after I did a few days of digging to figure out what pneumatic press they kept showing in their videos.

They are working on self heating plates for their production model but we have seen some people here do that already. So for all you DIY guys and gals or for people that just are inpatient like me you can grab a press now for $300-$900 and be squishing before Foundation has theirs on the market.

I do plan on checking out Foundations press they seem to have put some real thought into their design but I cant stand the shut up and wait game.


Cant thank you enough brother I was about to dedicate the evening to doing the same lol,.. I like the way they just heat the plates then rock it ...I dont care to spend a few gs to have the bells n whistles TBH when I know that they are just trying to capitalize on those of us who aren't willing to do a little digging... how much tonnage do you think they are using there in the their vids? lol @ them deleting ....they havent answered 1 question

that quote was from page 7..

I have found that I can press up to 10 gs of flower rosin at a time, carefully broken down and placed neatly on parchment with my Digi Shirt Press... but I am needing more pressure! Yields are low, and im getting about 3 presses worth of rosin, at about the same amount, which then will be darker on the 4th press...at around 295 F and Im not sure I want to be doing longer presses...so far about 2 - 3 seconds each because when I went longer the first time, the rosin was very decarb tasting. so far amazing...


but damn this stuff is all im on lately.
 
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Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
The reason why the shirt press sucks is tthe plate is so big and heated it makes your rosin run super thin and yes will decarb it. For sure don't do longer low heat presses with the shirt press.

Page 7, oh good lord you've been researching!

Ester, I don't get it. How does that go with the thinner plate having heating elements on it? The thicker plates give the strength. Are you saying the heating elements wrap around the outside of the thicker plates?
 

blastfrompast

Active member
Veteran
Sun fire: ur crazy I inch ss plates , we didn't use plates for pressing but used alumni for a frame bottom but rosin only touched ss

And by hand pressed I mean with a vice not by hand :)
 

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
No no no the plates arnt SS lol!

You didn't use plates for pressing, button, yeah you told me this is pm. I'm pretty sure the concept you have going. But by "button" do you mean an activation relay? I have a feeling your not but I don't want to run my mouth too much hehehe!

Yep yep, rosin only touches SS. I have been finding though incorporating the ptfe, similar how you used that silicone or ptfe vessel, is more convenient. But the pressing itself is all SS. I have another trick up my sleave though, filter paper, so technically the rosin touches that too.

It has been impossible to find unbleached natural fiber filter paper in rolls unfortunately...

Ah yes, the ol' vice, gotcha. Hmmm well can you increase the pressure any other way then decreasing the surface area? Your really making me want to do those pressure experiments now. Is it possible the hair iron is running hotter then you press?
 

cyphaman

Member
The reason why the shirt press sucks is tthe plate is so big and heated it makes your rosin run super thin and yes will decarb it. For sure don't do longer low heat presses with the shirt press.

Page 7, oh good lord you've been researching!


yeah I am actually not that unimpressed with the Heat Press..

I only found it tasted bad when presses were like 6 seconds or more....kinda dumb imo

Flavor has been absolutely incredible. 2-3 seconds max, but Youre right about it being so thin! Its such a bitch to collect..

This is where the high pressure comes into play, I believe that only 1 press will get most of the oil out, but also away form any filtration media at lower temps than with the Shirt Press and in thicker pools...I cant use the tea bag tech with my tiny buddlets..

Looking at a pneumatic bench press, the one that APE uses if it is the DAP19 only applies about a ton of force, if Im not mistaken?
so then up to 10 tons would be a lot of room for experimentation! I know that the strait gold extractor is going to be more like 10 tons of pressure but the yields are more buddery consistency. and the rosinator is 4 tons

I am happy with everything so far except yields from flower rosin,,,,,but that why ive got myself set up with some bubble bags and a washer, still lower yields but I am hoping that they will be bigger than just pressing buds.

 
Looking at a pneumatic bench press, the one that APE uses if it is the DAP19 only applies about a ton of force, if Im not mistaken?
so then up to 10 tons would be a lot of room for experimentation! I know that the strait gold extractor is going to be more like 10 tons of pressure but the yields are more buddery consistency. and the rosinator is 4 tons

I got an update from Dan, the rosinator is going to be 10 tons of pressure now. About 4 weeks out from being finished. Now that I have already shelled out the $, I can't wait to get this bad boy in the mail and let you guys know what I think.
 

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Straight gold extractor?

I think you guys mean to say force and not pressure.

The force of the ram is the tonage. The pressure (psi) will be determined by the tonage divided by the surface area of what you pressing.

10 tons is a lot for a single little bud lol!

At low temps I have certainly nor been getting everything all in one press. In the sour diesel experiments I yielded 35 grams on one press, then bumped up the heat and got an additional 20 grams. The second press of 20 grams was way less terpy and the rosin that came out at the end of the second press was not tasty at all.

When I did the triple press, first yielding the super budder, second yielding a half budder straight out the filter, the third press yielded rosin that full on tasted like already vaporized weed.

Perhaps if one was to do a higher temp and squeeze it all at 250F to 280F they might be able to get it all out but I'll repeat, the rosin that comes out last has way less terps then what comes out first.

At 150F up to 230f you will get a much more terpy product that will have budder tendencies but yield will be much lower.

I'm thinking either one higher temp press, or two lower temp presses with terpene reintroduction for the second press. That may not be a reality for everyone though.

I'm still completely unsure how different pressures will effect these observations.
 

Hashmasta-Kut

honey oil addict
Veteran
So you got around 60% of your total yield it sounds like on that test in the first press. If an optimal set of conditions is achieved that first press number probably can be bumped up some. The way i see it, is there will be two grades. A happy medium can be achieved on first press quality for yield and flavor, and the second press should be fairly low in amount. Another option is to just keep the first press, and do some other type of processing with the leftover material rather than second and or third pressing.

I have noticed that a moister sample seems to allow a more complete extraction in one press, and also possibly at slightly lower temperatures too. If a sample has to rely on its own sap to extract itself moreso than water moisture, its hard to get it out completely and with no damage.
 

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Hmmm you right to some extent indeed. However my last experiments showed that thay the bone dry flowers yielded only 1% less then the fresh moist flowers.

Could it be that we all have different setups and different pressures lead to different results? I have no clue lol!

Moisture for sure plays a part in it though I'm sure, I just have no tangible evidence to state what that role is and how it works, only speculation at this point.

I agree about doing something else with the second press. Would be great to decarb into oral meds since it already lacks flavor. There is still a lot of mystery and I hate IG now, I feel like people purposely hype up their own shit without providing any scientific evidence to their claims.
 

billy_big_bud!

Proud Cannadian Cannabist
Veteran
i feel like a dick for forgetting to mention this sooner but the guy that squishes for me mists the buds with a sprayer before he squishes. his theory is the water changing to steam expands 200 times helping the resin force through. i have tried using the same material as him but without the misting and my results were quite different. the product i got was much more runny leading me to believe that the water helps collect some plant waxes giving a higher yield and a easier to manage product. hope this helps someone. :D
 

Hashmasta-Kut

honey oil addict
Veteran
yeah my Dad and I always dampen our material if necessary. When i did measured tests, i got about 5% more yield when doing around 15% moisture as opposed to 10%. Then again, part of that yield is probably moisture. As for runny oils, some strains will be runny oil giving even when quite dry. Its the greasy strains that will do that. Sticky bud strains dont.
 

Sunfire

Active member
Veteran
Yep, the mysteries continue.

I've had the exact opposite experience. My moisture presses had more autobudder tendency and we're more sticky. I believe that the moisture can help pull out more terpenes but I'm unsure about the waxes.

I'm really perplexed by @TVERZURA and his latest rosin budder lost hyping the straight gold extractor. He claims it has multiple filtration stages and that dewaxes the product...Ok then are the waxes caught in the filters then? You should be able to clearly see the waxes of so, so where are they? I have been filtering at 15-20 micron for primary and 74 micron for secondary for a long time now and I've never seen any waxes? I'm dieing to get some analytical on the different products. Idk how any one can make those claims without analytical evidence. I like tony, I'm. Not hating, just trying to find the truth.

I will soon experiment with a 10 and 20 micron secondary filter. It's so hot I can barely get anything done in the days. Luckily the guy I recently met at a pac meeting that has a machine shop will be up here next week. Might be able to have some custom prototypes soon. It's such a huge investment to do right though, It might be best to wait and see what other people do first. Idk if my design will be welcomed in a lot of places. I know around here in the foothills lots of people would love it but all the county politics will have harvest numbers at an all time low. Terrible timing for me.
 

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