Mycorrhizae and fungi products comparision

[jtuck2]

Microbeman, I have actually read the thread. I'm new to using microbes and new to gardening in the last 5 years. I picked two products that I thought looked promising and asked a question. I need some assistance. My garden currently has some issues. Thanks.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Hi folks,

I did start reading the thread and also have done some research outside of it.

My favorite post was #2 by Seaf0ur who explained that most important (in his opinion) is avoiding trichoderma spores and make sure not to waste money on ectos as they only associate with trees.

My question is:
Is there any comparable information on products available in Europe?
I found some stuff through European amazon but sadly none of it is discussed here (or I missed it).

My current frontrunner (and only product that convinced me so far) is a product which states that it only includes endomycorrhizae, specifically "Rhizophagus irregularis". At a spore count of 210/cm³.
What I additionally like about the product is that I can choose the "carrier material". I can choose between things like hydroton, peat moss, vermiculite and lava-rock. This should be quite beneficial for my organic soil composition in general.


Did not find info on the "Rhizophagus irregularis" in particular in this thread and been wondering if it is beneficial to our plant. My guess would be yes and I would just try it out. But seeing all the smart heads around, I thought maybe someone can tell/knows without me having to try it first.

Also it was the only convincing product I found that wasn't mixed in with all sorts of other fertilizers or only available in tiny packages ( think 9 grams or maybe 25 or 50...).
If this product would strike out because say... the Rhizophagus irregularis is actually not for our plant, then I would have to go back to products from hydro stores who ask like 25 EUR for 100 gram and 150 for a kilo (Aptus bioshark line of products).
The product I mentioned I could get for about 40 bucks for 5 kg and about 70 for 10 kilos ...
It would also include beneficial carrier material such as hydroton or lavarock which I need for my soil composition anyway..

 

[highsociety420]

I have used Great White only and it definitely works. I trow a bunch of it in the top of the pot by mistake and in two weeks it grown a mushroom

Also, my roots are amazing, it has a lot of small hair around the small roots, A LOT.

 

[Microbeman]

Hi folks,

I did start reading the thread and also have done some research outside of it.

My favorite post was #2 by Seaf0ur who explained that most important (in his opinion) is avoiding trichoderma spores and make sure not to waste money on ectos as they only associate with trees.

My question is:
Is there any comparable information on products available in Europe?
I found some stuff through European amazon but sadly none of it is discussed here (or I missed it).

My current frontrunner (and only product that convinced me so far) is a product which states that it only includes endomycorrhizae, specifically "Rhizophagus irregularis". At a spore count of 210/cm³.
What I additionally like about the product is that I can choose the "carrier material". I can choose between things like hydroton, peat moss, vermiculite and lava-rock. This should be quite beneficial for my organic soil composition in general.


Did not find info on the "Rhizophagus irregularis" in particular in this thread and been wondering if it is beneficial to our plant. My guess would be yes and I would just try it out. But seeing all the smart heads around, I thought maybe someone can tell/knows without me having to try it first.

Also it was the only convincing product I found that wasn't mixed in with all sorts of other fertilizers or only available in tiny packages ( think 9 grams or maybe 25 or 50...).
If this product would strike out because say... the Rhizophagus irregularis is actually not for our plant, then I would have to go back to products from hydro stores who ask like 25 EUR for 100 gram and 150 for a kilo (Aptus bioshark line of products).
The product I mentioned I could get for about 40 bucks for 5 kg and about 70 for 10 kilos ...
It would also include beneficial carrier material such as hydroton or lavarock which I need for my soil composition anyway..

That is the new name for Glomus Intraradices, one of the best endomycorrhizal fungi to use with cannabis.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=254432&highlight=glomus+intraradices

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Ha, jackpot!

Thanks for the confirmation man!

I already got it but went more with gut feeling and stuff when ordering.

Now I have confirmation that I am on the right track, #feelsgodman

 

[coldcanna]

I understand that ecto fungi are only symbiotic with trees, but what about decaying trees/ bark that one might find in the forest? Would adding a couple buckets of decaying mulch to some large raised beds introduce the beneficial endos we are looking for ?

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I think that would be impossible to tell but I would go with "probably not".

Using decaying bark as mulch is definitely not a bad way to go about mulching but I fail to see how it would include benificial endo mycorrhizae.
Possibly could, I guess, but how would you know?

 

[blooper]

i've had a salesman tell me that you WILL see a huge difference "overnight" by just watering in some myco-fusion but from what i've read, you are supposed to use it dry at transplant and inoculate the roots directly and even doing that, i've had much healthier plants and less transplant shock just watering transplants in with good old fashioned wiggle-worm casting tea with no added mycos or some of the green thrive alive so idk why this guy was trying to get me to use it regularly like a tea unless he was simply told by management to push the myco-fusion line on everyone that stepped into the store.

looking at videos of people running voodoo juice i almost bought some but the guy at the mom and pop shop i switched to reminded me that part of the soil i use is already inoculated with most of the mycos AN use in the juice so all my plants are already inoculated and suggested i just go with general organics bio root to help immediately feed the plants and kickstart root development since i suspect i was overwatering ever since i couldn't get ahold of the chunky perlite that seems to be a lifesaver. not sure if it's totally 'organic' or if that even matters but it does seem to work. idk why. the label says aside from some different meals and rock phosphate/potassium sulphate, all it has in there far as being alive is some brewers yeast and from what i've read about that, there's not much if any reason to use it. watering less at a stable pH and foliar feeding with epsom salt seems to be fixing whatever problem i was having but it took a few days to notice the benefit so the overnight miracles promised by the walmart of local grow shops seems to be total bullshit.

hard to know what to believe. when i first started organics i was told with enough compost or castings in your mix you can just throw away your pH meter and feed with bird/bat guano tea at ridiculous pH levels without worry because the pH would be buffered to perfection by the microbes and with the added benefit of endo mycos it would have plants able to utilize food way more efficiently than in sterile soil using salt fertilizers and without any fear of burning plants. might work for some people, not sure why it wouldn't work for everyone but watering/feeding with anything that was under 5 or close to 8 was a disaster and guano especially can definitely burn plants.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I think the concept of organics is as you described.

The issue is that not all soils are created equal nor are all waters the same.

I believe issues with PH etc. in organic gardening come from an imbalance between the water used and the soil used.
They have to match.

Other additives highly touted in organic gardening, such as mycorrhizae or azomite, seem to be quite benign and it seems hard to "overdo it" with them. They will likely work with whatever water as well.

But if your water is high in magnesium for example and you build your soil with RO water in mind then you might create a magnesium deficiency or surplus and depending on how it is made available to the plant (does the Mg surplus come from the water or the soil or both?) it may result in this or that negative expression.

 

[CACTUSFLOWER]

"None of the microbial inoculants used, even those biocontrol agents of fungi, showed negative effects on AM establishmenthis." This excerpt from your article seems to contradict your claims.

 

[Microbeman]

"None of the microbial inoculants used, even those biocontrol agents of fungi, showed negative effects on AM establishmenthis." This excerpt from your article seems to contradict your claims.

Perhaps you could clarify who you are addressing and what you mean.

 

[cannaisok]

Hey, very informative read!
I only red the first 4 pages yet but will keep on reading further...

Look what I found in Europe, its a mix of Ektomykorrhiza, Trichoderma, Endomykorrhiza, ground living micro organisms, seaweedextract and some kind of acids calles Humin acids.
This is the ingred list(in german, but i think its possible to understand):

Ektomykorrhiza-Pilze je ml:
Pisolithus tinctorius (750.000 Sporen), Rhizopogon villosulus (125.000 Sporen), R. luteolus (125.000 Sporen), R. amylopogon (125.000 Sporen), R. fulvigleba (125.000 Sporen), Scleroderma citrinum (156.250 Sporen), S. cepa (156.250 Sporen), Suillus granulatus (156.250 Sporen), Suillus punctatipes (156.250 Sporen), Laccaria bicolor (50.000 Sporen), L. laccata (50.000 Sporen)

Trichoderma-Pilze je ml:
Trichoderma koningii (187.500 Sporen), T. harzianum (187.500 Sporen)

Endomykorrhiza-Pilze je ml:
Glomus intraradices (8 Sporen), G. mosseae (8 Sporen), G. aggregatum (8 Sporen), G. etunicatum (8 Sporen), G. clarum (2 Sporen), G. margarita (2 Sporen), G. brasilianum (2 Sporen), G. monosporum (2 Sporen), G. deserticola (2 Sporen)

Nützliche Bodenmikroorganismen - 298.469 koloniebildende Einheiten von folgenden Spezies:
Bacillus subtilis, B. licheniformis, B. azotoformans, B. megaterium, B. coagulans, B. pumilus, B. thuringiensis, B. stearothermophilus, Paenibacillus polymyxa, P. durum, P. fluorescens, P. gordonae, Azotobacter polymyxa, A. chroococcum, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Streptomyces griseus, S. lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaciens, Deinococcus erythromyxa.

Weitere Inhaltsstoffe:
Huminsäuren, Seegrasextrakt

-----
I Would love to hear what you think about this?
it costs 15-16$ for 30g and they say 1 ml has 1.975.042spores

 

[one.sixoneeight]

I am curious if anyone has experience with a product called MICROBAC? http://www.transgolf-inc.com/productlinkdocuments/Micro-BacSpecSheetkk.pdf

 

[cannaisok]

Somebody mentioned in the thread that trichoderma is not good combined in the same product with Ekto-,endo-mycorhiza.
Tbh now i think, I have a mix with all the shit combined. It is more spore than was in my soil before, i dont care what survives and what grows of the 100myco strains. Some strains benefit to 120% some to 400% but everything is more than 0% right?
I will try to make terra preta indoor in 5-7gallon pots that will be used for at least 1year and then going outdoors into the garden. I cant proof what lives in the soil so i guess add as much as possible ant let is do his own thing is best case in my op.

 

[KONY]

I am curious if anyone has experience with a product called MICROBAC? http://www.transgolf-inc.com/productlinkdocuments/Micro-BacSpecSheetkk.pdf

Where does anyone buy this? I had been meaning to get a smaller bottle, to try on slow rooting/vegging plants the day I flip them to flower.

 

[KIS]

Hey, very informative read!
I only red the first 4 pages yet but will keep on reading further...

Look what I found in Europe, its a mix of Ektomykorrhiza, Trichoderma, Endomykorrhiza, ground living micro organisms, seaweedextract and some kind of acids calles Humin acids.
This is the ingred list(in german, but i think its possible to understand):

Ektomykorrhiza-Pilze je ml:
Pisolithus tinctorius (750.000 Sporen), Rhizopogon villosulus (125.000 Sporen), R. luteolus (125.000 Sporen), R. amylopogon (125.000 Sporen), R. fulvigleba (125.000 Sporen), Scleroderma citrinum (156.250 Sporen), S. cepa (156.250 Sporen), Suillus granulatus (156.250 Sporen), Suillus punctatipes (156.250 Sporen), Laccaria bicolor (50.000 Sporen), L. laccata (50.000 Sporen)

Trichoderma-Pilze je ml:
Trichoderma koningii (187.500 Sporen), T. harzianum (187.500 Sporen)

Endomykorrhiza-Pilze je ml:
Glomus intraradices (8 Sporen), G. mosseae (8 Sporen), G. aggregatum (8 Sporen), G. etunicatum (8 Sporen), G. clarum (2 Sporen), G. margarita (2 Sporen), G. brasilianum (2 Sporen), G. monosporum (2 Sporen), G. deserticola (2 Sporen)

Nützliche Bodenmikroorganismen - 298.469 koloniebildende Einheiten von folgenden Spezies:
Bacillus subtilis, B. licheniformis, B. azotoformans, B. megaterium, B. coagulans, B. pumilus, B. thuringiensis, B. stearothermophilus, Paenibacillus polymyxa, P. durum, P. fluorescens, P. gordonae, Azotobacter polymyxa, A. chroococcum, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Streptomyces griseus, S. lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaciens, Deinococcus erythromyxa.

Weitere Inhaltsstoffe:
Huminsäuren, Seegrasextrakt

-----
I Would love to hear what you think about this?
it costs 15-16$ for 30g and they say 1 ml has 1.975.042spores

This part is the issue here:

Trichoderma-Pilze je ml:
Trichoderma koningii (187.500 Sporen), T. harzianum (187.500 Sporen)

Endomykorrhiza-Pilze je ml:
Glomus intraradices (8 Sporen), G. mosseae (8 Sporen)

only 8 spores/gram of intraradices and mosseae and WAY more trichoderma. I would expect to only see the benefits associated with trichoderma and not mycorrhizal fungi.

Also, Jeff Lowenfels is coming out with a book this winter specifically on the subject of mycorrhizal fungi. I'm looking forward to see what information/research he shares on the subject.

 

[blazeoneup]

I have been using root naturally endo mycorrhizae, It contains 4 species Glomus intraradices, G. mosseae, G. aggregatum, G. etunicatum, 60,000 prop per lb or about 108 per gram. It's granular so its easy to make direct contact with the roots during a transplant.

Root Naturally ENDO MYCORRHIZAE

 

[Team Microbe]

Stay away from anything dominant in Ecto mycorrhizae, like Great White - these products are formulated for woody species like Pine, Oak, and Maple trees and DO NOT form relationships with cannabis roots.

We want Endo mycorrhizae.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

A bit off topic as my comment is about a new bacterial product, Mammoth P by Mammoth Microbs.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Soil Amending IngredientsCFU/mL
Psuedomonas putida20,000,000
Comamonas testosteroni40,000,000
Citrobacter fruendii60,000,000
Enterobacter cloacae80,000,000
Total200,000,000

Watched a few side by side tests and its impressive, IMO check it out.

 

[Mikell]

Stay away from anything dominant in Ecto mycorrhizae, like Great White - these products are formulated for woody species like Pine, Oak, and Maple trees and DO NOT form relationships with cannabis roots.

We want Endo mycorrhizae.

Hey buddy, heard you shit kicked those mites finally with some ivermectin.

Now do you believe a grower can win against mites? Or did that chemical soak down only provide a slight reprieve?

Just imagine, some of us do it with just soap. I like peppermint oil.

Welcome back to the Jungle. We sharpened our teeth, I wonder how soft you've become. Must have been nice being able to delete all those narsty opinions that conflicted with your bumbling half formed ideas.

Great White is a general use product, containing both endo and ecto.

Read the label eh? Glad to see you're as thorough as always.

Besides which, I've yet to see anyone quantify mycorrhizal colonization in the rich soil most build. Why would a symbiotic relationship form, one that provides increased water and nutrient uptake under deficient conditions, when we provide adequate (an understatement) levels to deter colonization?

I'll play nice (more or less) but you should start studying something other than forum lore if you want to keep your head above water this time.