Mycorrhizae and fungi products comparision

[Orrie]

Here is the one where he uses bahiagrass

http://newfarm.rodaleinstitute.org/depts/NFfield_trials/0903/daviddouds.shtml

I am interested in home methods and not anything on the store shelf because as Mr Douds explains it form the link above-

Last but not least, home-grown mycorrhizal inoculum can be produced at a fraction of the cost of purchasing commercial mixes. "I've done some preliminary calculations," says Douds. "The on-farm system produces 100 million propagules [in a single enclosure] for approximately $50, not counting the cost of the farmer's labor, which is fairly minimal. To purchase 100 million propagules as listed on the bag of some commercial mixes would cost anywhere from $8,000 to $40,000." Commercial inoculants are sold in a peat- or vermiculite-based medium, so purchasers have to buy (and pay to have shipped) a large volume of material to get a small number of viable MF propagules--another reason it makes more sense to grow your own.








side question- How is it I can edit in another thread and not in others

 

[DocTim420]

Hey Doc, I first saw those reports over at TLG

https://logicalgardener.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=773


Buyer Beware over and over again and again

Those are similar to what I read...but the study I read had dozens of products including "Great White". Oh well, what would a farmer do?

Microbeman--as to your claim that there are minimum levels of Glomus intraradices in Pro-Mix BX...that seems odd, especially since their sister company is like THE producer of that particular strain of endomycorrhizae.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[Orrie]

Those are similar to what I read...but the study I read had dozens of products including "Great White". Oh well, what would a farmer do?

Plant Revolutions great white is under the 2015 micro analysis in pdf -

http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/programs/Pesticides/Fertilizers/Pages/ReportsPublicationsForms.aspx


A farmer would be better off growing his own!

 

[Mikell]

Mycorrhizal infection takes days. You would not see results in a few hours. I would attribute it to something else.

And high P has been shown to inhibit mycorrhizal infection, not damage relationship once infection has occurred (at least from everything I've read).

But does infection even occur? Coots mix gives around 200ppm P fresh mixed, and that is assuming no tinkering or water additives, which most do to excess. Many soil reports fall around there. The last I read 50-60ppm soil P drops infection to nearly nothing. The symbiotic relationship is intended to over come water drought and low available soil P, no? Neither of which are a concern with the typically overtended plants we grow (short of inground guerrila).

Many inocculants contain nitrogen, I attribute the "boost" claimed by many to result from this.

Not to leave unmentioned that microbial diversity is determined by conditions rather than applied inputs. It doesn't matter that you are watering in T. harzianum spores every watering if you are drowning the plants daily. The ideal conditions for rot will trump.

 

[DocTim420]

Plant Revolutions great white is under the 2015 micro analysis in pdf -

http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/programs/Pesticides/Fertilizers/Pages/ReportsPublicationsForms.aspx


A farmer would be better off growing his own!

Thanks man! Not the same as what I had, but...just the same, great info. Amazing whats inside a $100 bottle, dirty water.

 

[mushulatubbee]

Id like to share my compost mix with anyone here in the states! I am willing to bet my hard work can help some!

 

[DocTim420]

BTW, my Pro-Mix BX label says--

0.05 Active propagule Glomus intraradices per cc of grow medium

 

[Microbeman]

BTW, my Pro-Mix BX label says--

0.05 Active propagule Glomus intraradices per cc of grow medium

This pretty much bears out what I thought. I have had a direct relationship with this company over the years, as you can determine through some of my posts here.

I have purchased the spores direct from their lab-outlet in Quebec and it is this which I mix with peat powder for application.

 

[DocTim420]

This pretty much bears out what I thought. I have had a direct relationship with this company over the years, as you can determine through some of my posts here.

I have purchased the spores direct from their lab-outlet in Quebec and it is this which I mix with peat powder for application.

Agree, a minimum of 1 egg for every 20 cc's of Pro-Mix is not ginormous, but then again--it is a fresh inoculate with a 2 year shelf life (so says they) and since I don't add other endo products, the Glomus intraradices really don't have to compete with other populations for food and what not. Hence they should "live long and prosper".

 

[Orrie]

Thanks man! Not the same as what I had, but...just the same, great info. Amazing whats inside a $100 bottle, dirty water.

You are right, there must be another report/list somewhere with more of the same info. I know I've seen it somewhere. Will keep looking.


Mikell, good point on the nitrogen, its a good bet that PGRs play a significant role in the 'boost' people see when using products like great white but until full disclosure labeling laws are put in place, the consumer will never know



This must be where I read about alliums. Not Dr Douds work as I thought but lays out the steps fairly well-

http://www.sunseed.org.uk/wp-conten...-FOR-MAKING-YOUR-OWN-MYCORRHIZAL-INOCULUM.pdf

 

[St. Phatty]

I was at a hardware store today and they were selling small bags for $20.

I'm gonna be real nice to my naturally occurring Myc. so I don't have to buy any !

 

[Orrie]

Heavy metals in great white. PGRs listed also

https://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=26646



Product Name: Great White Premium Mycorrhizae (w/ 450,542 CFU/g Azotobacter chroococcum)
OMRI Listed: No WSDA Organic Program Listed: No

CDFA Listed OIM: No Product Status Brand Name Waste DerivedPesticide Registered Plant Success Killer Roots for Killer Plants No No Registrant: PLANT REVOLUTION INC - SANTA ANA, CA (714) 545-5335 Heavy Metals (in Parts Per Million)

Arsenic: 5.32
Cadmium: 0.9
Mercury: < 0.14
Lead: 5.32
Nickel: 24.1


Non Plant Food Ingredients

Humic Acid
Indole3 Butyric Acid
Naphthaleneacetic Acid
Phosphorous Acid
Kelp
Vitamin B1
Polyacrylamide
Potting Mix


Microbials
Pisolithus tinctorius - 187,875 propagules/g
Rhizopogon luteolus - 5,219 propagules/g
Rhizopogon fulvigleba - 5,219 propagules/g
Rhizopogon villosulus - 5,219 propagules/g
Rhizopogon amylopogon - 5,219 propagules/g
Scleroderma citrinum - 5,219 propagules/g
Scleroderma cepa - 5,219 propagules/g
Glomus aggregatum - 83 propagules/g
Glomus intraradices - 83 propagules/g
Glomus mosseae - 83 propagules/g
Glomus etunicatum - 83 propagules/g
Glomus clarum - 10 propagules/g
Glomus monosporum - 10 propagules/g
Glomus brasilianum - 10 propagules/g
Glomus margarita - 10 propagules/g
Azotobacter chroococcum - 450,542 CFU/g
Bacillus subtilis - 450,542 CFU/g
Bacillus licheniformis - 450,542 CFU/g
Bacillus azotoformans - 450,542 CFU/g
Bacillus megaterium - 450,542 CFU/g
Bacillus coagulans - 450,542 CFU/g
Bacillus pumilus - 450,542 CFU/g
Bacillus thuringiensis - 450,542 CFU/g
Paenibacillus durum - 450,542 CFU/g
Paenibacillus polymyxa - 450,542 CFU/g
Pseudomonas aureofaciens - 450,542 CFU/g
Pseudomonas fluorescens - 450,542 CFU/g
Saccharomyces cerevisiae - 450,542 CFU/g
Streptomyces griseus - 450,542 CFU/g
Streptomyces lydicus - 450,542 CFU/g
Trichoderma konigii - 156,562 CFU/g
Trichoderma harzianum - 156,562 CFU/g








Edit- added info , link keeps breaking after posting, wtf

 

[legalcanada]

This pretty much bears out what I thought. I have had a direct relationship with this company over the years, as you can determine through some of my posts here.

I have purchased the spores direct from their lab-outlet in Quebec and it is this which I mix with peat powder for application.

I'm trying to get in touch with one of their sales reps right now to place an order for some, seems much more cost efficient than 120$ for 300g of some 80s/g stuff. I was only worried they might not accept small orders. Do you happen to know if they have a minimum order, or a ballpark price for a 500g container?

I'm interested in the specialty powder for vegetables, it has 12,000 spores per gram.

http://www.ptagtiv.com/en/products/agtiv-specialty-crops-powder/

 

[Microbeman]

I'm trying to get in touch with one of their sales reps right now to place an order for some, seems much more cost efficient than 120$ for 300g of some 80s/g stuff. I was only worried they might not accept small orders. Do you happen to know if they have a minimum order, or a ballpark price for a 500g container?

I'm interested in the specialty powder for vegetables, it has 12,000 spores per gram.

http://www.ptagtiv.com/en/products/agtiv-specialty-crops-powder/

I think one pound is the smallest order but I'm not sure.

 

[Imagenetic2935]

I use Great White with much success. It's fairly cheap and is probably one of the best things you can do for your plants.
(I mean myco in general)

 

[Microbeman]

I use Great White with much success. It's fairly cheap and is probably one of the best things you can do for your plants.
(I mean myco in general)

I have to disagree on that (as advice). If you read over literature on how endomycorrhizal fungi works and compare this to the ingredients for Great White. You may come to the conclusion that benefits you've observed are more likely from some of the other contents.

 

[Popice]

so how does one know there is good Inoculation without roots under a microscope? I've had cover crops and other forage, looking into more soon, bluegrass, Timothy, clover, and some others. yes big grasses in containers, it's forage. I read somewhere how some covercrops really won't grow well without inoculation, so if they come up well I just have to assume something is inocculated. long enough, everything In the container should be good. ive gotten about 2 months for a good showing. Besides my love of using local, like bread yeast and honey, I also learned in the marina business if it's got a specialty label someone just wants to make money. I think the other thing is most people I've seen buying products always have some kind of plant issue going on so it's tough to compare if my mycos are there, or are better concentrations per cost(?). maybe I need to find new people that spend a lot and have no issues, although I know that's not gonna come from the commercial side of the industry.

 

[DocTim420]

Go for it Pop, but eventually you will settle on what works for you.

Do what you do best...and ignore the rest!

 

[Fourtay]

CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT(S):
Mycorrhiza: 500 viable spores per gram (227,000 viable spores/lb)
Endomycorrhiza/gram:
Glomus Intraradices – 500 viable spores per gram (227,000 viable spores/lb)


I have used mycojordan and Roots in a side-by-side. 2 x 7 gallon pots, same room, same strain, same size, same everything, except for 1 application of roots and mycojordan at day 1 of flower. Very noticeable difference. However, I was using coco medium, gh nutes, multifeed.

http://www.elite91.com/product/professional-mycorrhizal-inoculant/

 

[mushulatubbee]

Microbeman have you seen ashelys youtube vid on burying near a tree? Your thoughts?
https://youtu.be/yCBJ0rXwILY