Mycorrhizae and fungi products comparision

[Team Microbe]

Hey buddy, heard you shit kicked those mites finally with some ivermectin.

Now do you believe a grower can win against mites? Or did that chemical soak down only provide a slight reprieve?

Just imagine, some of us do it with just soap. I like peppermint oil.

Welcome back to the Jungle. We sharpened our teeth, I wonder how soft you've become. Must have been nice being able to delete all those narsty opinions that conflicted with your bumbling half formed ideas.

Great White is a general use product, containing both endo and ecto.

Read the label eh? Glad to see you're as thorough as always.

Besides which, I've yet to see anyone quantify mycorrhizal colonization in the rich soil most build. Why would a symbiotic relationship form, one that provides increased water and nutrient uptake under deficient conditions, when we provide adequate (an understatement) levels to deter colonization?

I'll play nice (more or less) but you should start studying something other than forum lore if you want to keep your head above water this time.

Hahaha where'd you hear that from? Isn't that what Guardian was caught using before they hit the hay? I've never used it... I used high camphor essential oils and karanja oil to beat the mites. Glad to hear you're still bitter and angry over here, sounds like not much has changed LOL!

I tried to leave... everyone wouldn't let me though

Please be nice!!! I'm not sure how much more I can honestly handle... I'll have my hanky handy just incase though

Btw... tell me how "general" this sounds:
Endomycorrhiza
Glomus aggregatum – 83 props per gram
Glomus intraradices – 83 props per gram
Glomus mosseae – 83 props per gram
Glomus etunicatum – 83 props per gram
Glomus clarum – 11 props per gram
Glomus monosporum – 11 props per gram
Paraglomus brazilianum – 11 props per gram
Glomus deserticola – 11 props per gram
Gigaspora margarita – 11 props per gram

Ectomycorrhiza
Pisolithus tinctorious – 187,875 propagules per gram
Rhizopogon luteolus – 5,219 props per gram
Rhizopogon fulvigleba – 5,219 props per gram
Rhizopogon villosullus – 5,219 props per gram
Rhizopogon amylopogon – 5,219 props per gram
Scleroderma citrinum – 5,219 props per gram
Scleroderma cepa – 5,219 props per gram

 

[Mikell]

Deleting Instagram posts and editting your threads on other forums you aren't banned on doesn't make what happened unhappen.

You and many others repped Guardian hard. You may also want to be a little more discerning who you babble with. Some of your friends take more pleasure in your failures than anyone would consider healthy. How long was that battle, 10 monthes? I didn't even need the updates, you stopped posting pictures every time you lost control.

Looks general enough for a product with little proof of any colonization in a soil half as rich as any mix posted here. Coots mix (arguably quite common) has roughly twice the phosphorus needed to shit down colonization, and that's without accounting for the ridiculous amount of teas, slurries and topdress's thrown at the soil by your average organic grower.

If you're going to buy snake oil, it really doesn't matter which brand. It's probably long expired anyway.

 

[Team Microbe]

Deleting Instagram posts and editting your threads on other forums you aren't banned on doesn't make what happened unhappen.

You and many others repped Guardian hard. You may also want to be a little more discerning who you babble with. Some of your friends take more pleasure in your failures than anyone would consider healthy. How long was that battle, 10 monthes? I didn't even need the updates, you stopped posting pictures every time you lost control.

Looks general enough for a product with little proof of any colonization in a soil half as rich as any mix posted here. Coots mix (arguably quite common) has roughly twice the phosphorus needed to shit down colonization, and that's without accounting for the ridiculous amount of teas, slurries and topdress's thrown at the soil by your average organic grower.

If you're going to buy snake oil, it really doesn't matter which brand. It's probably long expired anyway.

Just like writing mindless dribble on ICMAG doesn't make it true, right? LOL

 

[Mikell]

You grow bushweed kiddo, a pound of yours is closer to the price of an ounce of indoor. Keep dreaming.

You're a little batshit eh? People watched you delete posts about how great you thought Guardian was. I could care less how you try to spin your mistakes.

All this is drama.

Why don't you respond with rebuttals, qouting references to support your views?

Ever. Just do it once. It'll feel great.

 

[Team Microbe]

You grow bushweed kiddo, a pound of yours is closer to the price of an ounce of indoor. Keep dreaming.

You're a little batshit eh? People watched you delete posts about how great you thought Guardian was. I could care less how you try to spin your mistakes.

All this is drama.

Why don't you respond with rebuttals, qouting references to support your views?

Ever. Just do it once. It'll feel great.

You're about to get banned... keep it up!

 

[Mikell]

Then we'll drop the drama and leave the meat.

Why don't you respond with rebuttals, qouting references to support your views?

 

[Team Microbe]

Then we'll drop the drama and leave the meat.

Deal.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Leave it be Mikell.

Can only help those who want to be helped.
Won't reform someone who doesn't recognize he/she needs reforming.

Calling it out is valuable for others so they know who it is that is handing out "advice"/opinions and that it should be considered accordingly (in this case likely not at all).

But going beyond is a waste of good brain-waves imho.

At least in my eyes, you are one of the more valuable members of this community with great info to share. You certainly helped me considerably.
Makes me sad to see you waste your energy on someone who clearly doesn't appreciate it and doesn't recognize your reputation and knowledge.

 

[gaiusmarius]

its time for both of you to let this go, you are not gonna agree and it's becoming a pain in the ass for people.

at this stage it's fair to say both of you have said it all before. no point going around in circles. i don't interfere if people are being civil and no posts are being reported. but when it starts getting out of hand it's time for you guys to just stop reacting to each other.

 

[Mikell]

Magnets it seems. I will try to keep it civil from my end.

Biddy, thank you for the kind words, but I already have ego issues.

Your other comments strike home. It is my theory we have an unpredetermined amount of energy we can expell during our time (or I present common observations as my own). You can not control the amount (sleeping less helps), you can control the flow of positive or negative.

But then we come to thinking vs. doing and I am all around proficient hypocrite. No great feat to believe you're a better hand there.

 

[bearsfan87]

BioAg is MONSANTO owned

 

[Microbeman]

BioAg is MONSANTO owned

I don't think so....

http://www.bioag.com/

http://www.monsanto.com/products/pages/bioag.aspx

The BioAg Alliance is a unique partnership between Monsanto and Novozymes

Careful what you state as fact.

 

[neongreen]

I have been using root naturally endo mycorrhizae, It contains 4 species Glomus intraradices, G. mosseae, G. aggregatum, G. etunicatum, 60,000 prop per lb or about 108 per gram. It's granular so its easy to make direct contact with the roots during a transplant.

Root Naturally ENDO MYCORRHIZAE

How have you been getting on with the Root Naturally Endo?

It looked the best choice to me from what I could find recently, so I got some and inoculated 6 plants around a week ago. A few hours later they looked happier than I'd ever seen them looking.

Could it be perhaps that, even if they have not yet formed physical associations with the roots, the plants already sense what's coming?

Also, what are you guys using as flowering nutes, that won't harm the fungal associations? Up till now I was using comfrey tea/dried comfrey as an amendment (outdoor), but now I'm weary of it's high P content, and OFC bone meal is a no no. Is wood ash a good idea?

 

[KIS]

How have you been getting on with the Root Naturally Endo?

It looked the best choice to me from what I could find recently, so I got some and inoculated 6 plants around a week ago. A few hours later they looked happier than I'd ever seen them looking.

Could it be perhaps that, even if they have not yet formed physical associations with the roots, the plants already sense what's coming?

Also, what are you guys using as flowering nutes, that won't harm the fungal associations? Up till now I was using comfrey tea/dried comfrey as an amendment (outdoor), but now I'm weary of it's high P content, and OFC bone meal is a no no. Is wood ash a good idea?

Mycorrhizal infection takes days. You would not see results in a few hours. I would attribute it to something else.

And high P has been shown to inhibit mycorrhizal infection, not damage relationship once infection has occurred (at least from everything I've read).

 

[DocTim420]

First, let me say mycorrhizae fungi are beneficial--but let me toss this on the table.

If I inoculated my grow medium with mycorrhizae fungi, how long will it be around? Or said differently, "how do you kill mycorrhizae fungi?" (thereby requiring a re-inoculation).

If I reclaim my soil (containing an existing mycorrhizae colony) and use fresh amendments that already contain mycorrhizae fungi--how much more mycorrhizae do I need?

Can one have too much mycorrhizae? Or could it be...the mycorrhizae vendors are hawking overpriced products to gullible cannabis growers?

One last point--a couple of years ago, I recall reading a report that compared about a dozen bacteria/fungi products that analyzed the live colonies inside the product bottle, not one of the products tested (including Great White) passed. Meaning what was stated on the label was NOT inside the bottle. When I find that report I will post it--but for some reason that particular report is not where it is supposed to be...oh well.

Something to think about.

 

[Microbeman]

First, let me say mycorrhizae fungi are beneficial--but let me toss this on the table.

If I inoculated my grow medium with mycorrhizae fungi, how long will it be around? Or said differently, "how do you kill mycorrhizae fungi?" (thereby requiring a re-inoculation).

If I reclaim my soil (containing an existing mycorrhizae colony) and use fresh amendments that already contain mycorrhizae fungi--how much more mycorrhizae do I need?

Can one have too much mycorrhizae? Or could it be...the mycorrhizae vendors are hawking overpriced products to gullible cannabis growers?

One last point--a couple of years ago, I recall reading a report that compared about a dozen bacteria/fungi products that analyzed the live colonies inside the product bottle, not one of the products tested (including Great White) passed. Meaning what was stated on the label was NOT inside the bottle. When I find that report I will post it--but for some reason that particular report is not where it is supposed to be...oh well.

Something to think about.

A number of these issues are covered in depth in a mycorrhizal fungi thread. One important point is that it is far, far better to inoculate, seeds, roots or(and) prepped cuttings than to apply to the growing media.

If one has mycorrhizal fungi infection in/on the roots, when the plant is killed for harvest the fungi is triggered to produce spores. Therefore if one plants in the same soil then chances are high for infection of the new plants. This speaks well for no-till practices.

Alternatively one could harvest the roots for a supply of spores to inoculate the next crop. Another alternative is to attempt to keep mycorrhizal fungi growing on companion plants such as clover.

 

[DocTim420]

...One important point is that it is far, far better to inoculate, seeds, roots or(and) prepped cuttings than to apply to the growing media....

Yep! That has been my practice for a number of years now; for seedlings/cuttings/rootings I use 100% ProMix BX (fresh inoculated peat) and for the 1st transplant into cups, it is a blend of custom grow medium (old established colonies) mixed 50/50 with fresh ProMix BX. That's it...no further inoculations of "fresh colonies" and I have roots growing out of my drain holes--about a week after flipping 12/12 (my canary in the coal mine--if I don't see roots in the drain holes, then I suspect somethings is probably wrong).

BTW, the money I saved in buying expensive myco products, I now splurge on sixer of Sculpin IPA each week. Everybody is happier now...lol.

 

[Orrie]

One last point--a couple of years ago, I recall reading a report that compared about a dozen bacteria/fungi products that analyzed the live colonies inside the product bottle, not one of the products tested (including Great White) passed. Meaning what was stated on the label was NOT inside the bottle. When I find that report I will post it--but for some reason that particular report is not where it is supposed to be...oh well.

Something to think about.

Hey Doc, I first saw those reports over at TLG

https://logicalgardener.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=773


Buyer Beware over and over again and again

 

[Microbeman]

The amount of endomycorrhizal (AM) spores in Pro-mix is negligible to the point of non-existence (to the best of my knowledge as of this date).

The way to inoculate seeds (as instructed by the company that makes Pro-mix) is to coat the seeds with PS3 (wet or dry mix diluted as required) in a container prior to planting. [PS3 is Glomus Intraradices or Rhizophagus irregularis (new name) at 3200 spores/gram.]

For cuttings or rooted transplants I coat the cuttings or roots with the powder, which I generally dilute with powdered sphagnum peatmoss to around 250 to 300 spores per gram.

If one has harvested the roots assuming or having confirmed AM infection, the small root ends are dried and chopped into tiny pieces and used as above in place of the commercially purchased AM spores.

 

[Orrie]

I remember reading something from David Douds that said alliums could be used to propagate AM spores Anyone heard of it or done something similar?

I've used garlic and onion as companion plants for a few years. Less pest pressure for sure but no microscope to say positively there is AM infection