MotherLode Gardens 2015

[reppin2c]

It would nice if someone who has the hemp pest and disease book would look into that for schrews. I feel like the plant problem is a micro delivery problem. But you know what they say about feelings lol.

Schrews did you get a soil or sap analysis? I like those hard numbers and for me a potential loss of dollars is worth a bill

Byf is a wealth of knowledge is mostly how he delivers it that rubs people wrong.

 

[Mr Chocolate]

So the general consensus is to stop spraying neem or any other kind of oil before the dog days of summer?

It makes sense that a shiny coat of oil would help the sun burn the shit out of leaves, but does this really happen? I was planning on hitting my plants with a final dose of karanja oil soon.

I've found the major problem with oils is what you are using along with them. I had thought I had russets a couple seasons ago on a bunch of 5 gallon vegging plants and hit them with powdered surfer and then some neem a couple days after and the oil seemed to trap the sulfur and intensify it and fry my leaves like potato chips. The worst.
I've been switching off back and forth between nuke'em and big time and spraying once a week preventative this year and last year and my plants are stoked. And the shits omri listed and mellow on your plants.
Schrews would are you going to keep that one yellowing plant in the triple pot if it persists or yank it and let the other two try and fill the gap??

 

[epicorchard]

How do you like the stihl...worth it?

Love it, my DIY sprayer wasn't cutting g it on my hillside. Takes me about 8 to 9 fills to cover my garden, but I have a spray station set up mid gsrden, so it stihl only takes a couple hours to blast my garden.

 

[jbarsk8]

Love it, my DIY sprayer wasn't cutting g it on my hillside. Takes me about 8 to 9 fills to cover my garden, but I have a spray station set up mid gsrden, so it stihl only takes a couple hours to blast my garden.

Great to know, worst part about spraying to me is how often I'm refilling the damn 4 gallon backpack. What did the stihl run you?

 

[milkyjoe]

schrews...this is the soil activity meter I was talking about. It is expensive but if you look mine is held together with gorilla tape...I use it that much.

It measures the electrical flow in the soil. Think about it...when they wanna make sure you are dead they basically hook your brain to an electrical meter...if it don't conduct electricity we chuck your shell out.

Every living thing is connected to electromagnetic energy of the earth...the universe. Including your soil. If it does not conduct electricity it is dead...kinda the opposite of a living soil.

Now when you use the Coot mix you are using non soluble stuff...caco3, kelp, neem meal, etc...it does not dissolve into ions just cause you chuck it into water. And in that form it does not provide minerals to the plant.

It has to be dissolved to be available...either through the action of acidic water (why sulfer is so important...sulfuric acid) or through being digested by microbes and then made available as microbal metabolites. When either of those things happen you get electrical activity in your soil...and you can measure it.

Decades ago Reams found that somewhere between 0.3 and 0.6 on this meter is a safe place that promotes good yield but does not push the plant so fast it cannot take up Ca as fast as it takes up N, in the nitrate form primarily.

But we are trying to grow monster pumpkins. So guys like Tom Hill pushed the limits...He started running 0.7. To do that he found out that one needs to foliar Ca and micros...in his case Ca25 and brix mix. The Ca allowed Ca to get to the growing tips in spite of the highish nitrogen. The brix mix allowed the plant to make enzymes which saves energy that can then go towards healthy growth.

Since then I believe a few other things have been found. The importance of B and Si to transporting Ca is a huge development. Also we have found it isn't just micros that build enzymes but a whole bunch of ultra trace stuff.

Trying for 8 pound plants without a solid foliar program is a fools errand if you ask me. Especially with high P soils. If everything goes perfect you might pull it off...but it is nothing but luck as far as plant health goes.

And then there is watering strategies:

http://www.advancingecoag.com/john-...er-supply-can-lead-to-nutritional-imbalances/

Did I mention...fucking test for hemp canker.

edit...full credit to byf for the hemp canker call. Never personally seen it myself. He is the one single guy I would turn to if I were having a problem like this

edit dos...see that "alarm" on the meter. That lights up when you do not have enough water to conduct electricity. You never want to get to the point it comes on.

 

[Payaso]

That's a mighty fine post there milkyjoe, seems electricity IS the spark of life, eh?

And damn that Pests and Diseases book is TOO expensive!!! Even I do not have a copy...

But testing for hemp canker sounds proper seeing what I have read in this thread.

 

[Cep]

If it is a hemp canker infection there won't be much you can do this season. If its canker its in the xylem of your plants. I've seen it the prior three years because I grew in the same soil. Shcrews, this is your second year with the same soil correct?

The best thing to do like BYF said is to treat with Contans WG and bury old soil. One thing you could do is turn those smarties into mounds or load it into bigger containers next year if you're in the same spot and pile a bunch of new soil on top of this years soil after its been ammended. Also, dig out as much of the root ball as possible and take it off site or burn it. It persists because it consumes last years plant matter then sporulates the next season.

Based on the last pictures you posted however it does not look like the initital stages of a canker infection. What I've seen in the past is that an infected plant shows slowed growth on part of its shell, the part that corresponds to whatever side of the root system gets hit first. Then that slowed vegetation will have its fan leaves start to yellow. This almost always happens at the onset of bloom, and it almost always leads to faster maturity of either the stunted section of the plant or the entire plant if the infection gets bad enough. Often I'd cut the infected clones down a full week earlier than the sisters. I've never lost a plant to this disease, just reduced yield.

One other thing I wanted to bring up is if you used a wetting agent when you started watering? If not, then you may have roots growing into media that isn't uniform in it's nutrition. Soil pockets that haven't been wet yet, sections of the pots that are drying out completely between watering, etc.

 

[Organic Grower]

I'm still not convinced about cyclomen mites either. Especially since people are not finding them under a scope. Hemp canker doesn't seem like the correct diagnoses either. This is truly an epidemic that has spread to many many gardens in the area. Soil/nutrient issues don't pan out either. It has to be a pest or a virus. I'm leaning towards virus, due to the fact that I've been able to combat it without pesticides, and people who have sprayed pesticides are still finding it..

Hemp streak virus. That's my call. Feed them aspirin. Or RNA Pro.

 

[Organic Grower]

I want to confirm this. Can someone with an active outbreak please sendin samplesto be tested? And can someone recommend a lab that will run these tests for us?

 

[milkyjoe]

Ultimately the best defense against fungal disease is photosynthesis and the healthy plant it promotes. You want plenty of fungal activity to make food available to drive that photosynthesis for the plant. But...a big role of fungus is to digest dead stuff...electrically dead stuff. If your plants are not fed sufficiently to be conducting electricity in the sap then the fungus figures they are dead and starts to do its job.

And that begins a downward spiral. Now the plant cant take up food. It gets weaker and cannot fight off insects and further fungal attack.

You really need to think of your plant/soil as one single system. The soil is the stomach of the plant. And what do they say...gut health protects against 80% of all disease.

At the same time the liquid carbon produced by photosynthesis is what really feeds that soil. Foliars improve your soil health if they increase photosynthesis. And then that starts a positive feedback loop vs the opposite.

It is all one.

 

[Calidude]

Ultimately the best defense against fungal disease is photosynthesis and the healthy plant it promotes. You want plenty of fungal activity to make food available to drive that photosynthesis for the plant. But...a big role of fungus is to digest dead stuff...electrically dead stuff. If your plants are not fed sufficiently to be conducting electricity in the sap then the fungus figures they are dead and starts to do its job.

And that begins a downward spiral. Now the plant cant take up food. It gets weaker and cannot fight off insects and further fungal

It is all one.

Thanks for the great information!!

 

[Lester Beans]

Has the well been tested?? This could be a waterborne issue.

I still maintain something is amiss with the calcium traveling through the plant.

Cool meter milkyjoe! The old timers used a potato clock for the test

 

[TriSierra]

Milky just killed it with his last couple posts. Was thinking about the AEA watering article this morning too - I remember AEA sending that out last year in a brochure and forwarding it to every farmer I knew.

We've seen that mutated growth on a neighbors grow - first year VermiSoil with the mutated growth affect 3 out of 48 plants. At first thought it was mites. Then thought it was fungal. Then looked at their soil test and their soluble potassium was through the roof, so they sprayed AEA Calcium, Photomag and Micropak and drenched Cal Nitrate, Espom Salts and PhotoMag. Plants looked better after 1 day, after a week the plants were back on track. That was more than a month ago and the plants have fully recovered, they are foliar feeding twice weekly now.

Still not completely sold that was the remedy, but it worked. Hope everyone's gardens are doing better.

 

[Organic Grower]

The variable that I think eliminates all of those hypothesis is that this is not an isolated incident. It's happening in almost EVERY garden in the area, various soils, watering regimens, foliar regimens, seeds, clones...

Fascinating information nonetheless, milkyjoe.

 

[redlaser]

It's important to realize there may be more than one cause, or more than one problem that appears similar to others.

 

[jbarsk8]

I'm in same region and not only myself, but neighbors suffering on a few as well.

More than cause or combination ie:

Dud syndrome

 

[Shcrews]

View attachment 327783 schrews...this is the soil activity meter I was talking about. It is expensive but if you look mine is held together with gorilla tape...I use it that much.

thanks for all the info. i will order one of those meters . i will check out that link later, been busy all day

Did I mention...fucking test for hemp canker.
.

i went to FedEx today but missed their cutoff time so decided to just cut some fresh branches tomorrow and send them off in the morning

Schrews did you get a soil or sap analysis? I like those hard numbers and for me a potential loss of dollars is worth a bill

i plan to send samples in tomorrow

Schrews would are you going to keep that one yellowing plant in the triple pot if it persists or yank it and let the other two try and fill the gap??

i hate to kill plants but it might have to happen.

 

[pipeline]

Where's the university extension when you need them? Honestly, call Purdue University or some local Agrigultural extension. Best of luck, shcrews! I don't know what that is. Make that fedex cutoff tomorrow! Everything will be alright...

 

[pipeline]

Purdue Plant and Pest Diagnostics Lab: https://www.ppdl.purdue.edu/PPDL/index.html

 

[RetroGrow]

Have been following this adventure. A few thoughts:
Since you don't know what the pathogen is, or even if it is a pathogen, the first thing I would do is boost the plant's immune system, helping it to fight off whatever's happening. You can do this with salicylic acid, or chitinase. Salicylic acid comes from aspirin, which is readily available. Chitinase can be bought on Ebay, or ordered directly from China. Since you can easily get aspirin, I would start there immediately. You want uncoated, regular, generic aspirin, not time release. Mix one 325 Mg tablet per gallon of water, and apply as a foliar spray, as well as adding to your watering as a soil drench. Aspirin will generally approve your plant's appearance quickly, sometimes over night, depending on the problem. Salicylic acid stimulates the plant's SAR (systemic acquired resistance), or immune response.
Re: salicylic acid, from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid

Salicylic acid (from Latin salix, willow tree, from the bark of which the substance used to be obtained) is a monohydroxybenzoic acid, a type of phenolic acid and a beta hydroxy acid. It has the formula C7H6O3. This colorless crystalline organic acid is widely used in organic synthesis and functions as a plant hormone. It is derived from the metabolism of salicin. Salicylic acid is an important active metabolite of aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid), which acts in part as a prodrug to salicylic acid.

Salicylic acid (SA) is a phenolic phytohormone and is found in plants with roles in plant growth and development, photosynthesis, transpiration, ion uptake and transport. SA also induces specific changes in leaf anatomy and chloroplast structure. SA is involved in endogenous signaling, mediating in plant defense against pathogens. It plays a role in the resistance to pathogens by inducing the production of pathogenesis-related proteins. It is involved in the systemic acquired resistance (SAR) in which a pathogenic attack on one part of the plant induces resistance in other parts. The signal can also move to nearby plants by salicylic acid being converted to the volatile ester, methyl salicylate.
By the way, salicylic acid is also a growth hormone, and will increase yields. Salicylic acid will also mitigate the damage caused by broad & cyclamen mites, as it increases the plant's resistance to the toxins the mites inject. On the subject of broad and cyclamen mites, you can tell if you have them by cutting off some affected leaves, and scoping them on the undersides for eggs. The eggs can't hide. The mites do, and they are averse to light, so you are not likely to see them in daylight hours. Eggs are found only on the undersides of leaves.
My two suspects in this case would be fusarium oxysporum, and stem nematodes. The lab can identify these pests if present. A Cannabis friendly lab is here:
AL&L Crop Solutions

http://www.allcropsolutions.com/

7769 N. Meridian Rd.
Vacaville, CA 95688

Tel: (707) 693-3050
Tel: (530) 387-3270 (not changed)
Email: [email protected]

Try to post some close up pictures of the damaged areas, so we can get a better look at them. I have the book, "Hemp Diseases & Pests", if there is something in there you want to know about. By the way, this can be downloaded by torrent, and can be easily found by searching.

Chitinase is your other option for the SAR response. There is a thread on it here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=251272

Chitosan is contained in several commercial products:
GH: Florashield
Advanced Nutrients:Budfactor X

Chitosan is also found in insect frass.
This can be gotten here:
http://www.onfrass.com/what.html

About chitin/insect frass:
Insect Frass naturally contains the nutrition plants require, beneficial micro-organisms, and the only immediately plant-available source of chitin (pronounced “Kite-in”). Chitin fortifies a plant from the inside out, causing an "auto-immune" response that signals a plant to produce natural toxins which fend off its natural enemies like pests and fungal pathogens. The EPA says that chitin and chitosan (see FAQ's) defend against botrytis (grey mold), powdery mildew, early and late blight, fungal pathogens in the root zone (root rot) and root-feeding nematodes. Insect Frass does NOT cause a plant to kill beneficial insects or beneficial nematodes.
Note, both salicylic acid and chitin (chitosan) do basically the same thing: boost your plant's immune response, and enable endogenous signaling, from one damaged plant or part of a plant to other plants/parts of plants, warning them of danger.
I would never grow without aspirin. It prevents disease and promotes growth. I would be all over those plants with aspirin ASAP.
Good luck!